"Buzz has not installed the offense yet..."

[jesmu84]

If you were truly aware that the other teams had the same chance over the course of the season to improve, then why did you specify a hypothteical matchup between MU in November, but held the other teams in March?

Was it an honest mistake--a lack of awareness--that you asked me to make the comparision that way?

Or did I spoil an intentional attempt to play "gotcha" when i shifted your question back to a fair comparison of MU in November to Davidson, St. Johns or Rutgers in November (instead of March)?

It was not a mistake. Nor was it any attempt at anything. I was genuinely curious whether you thought our team in november could have beaten Davidson, butler, Miami, etc.

You made the assumption I was asking about our November team beating others' march teams.

[The Lens]

2011.  Sweet 16
2012.  Sweet 16
2013.  Elite 8

[keefe]

Is Equalizer 84/Joanie?? I should have figured that out. Must have morphed into the new personae when I was in Nepal for 10 months.

[GGGG]

If you're going to make the argument argue that a particular action makes a team stronger in March, then, yes, the team actually has to be stronger in March for your argument to hold.

I never made that argument.  I just don't understand tearing down last year's accomplishments and saying "well, it really wasn't that impressive."

Yeah honestly it was.  Perhaps I have too long a history dealing with bad Marquette basketball, but last March was fun.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I think the serious point is here is that you can refute the argument that "odd coaching moves in November make us solid in March" with the fact that we weren't that solid in March:

Take a look at our March games:

Nearly lost to Rutgers
nearly lost to St. Johns
Blown out by Notre Dame in the BET--a team we handled solidly a few weeks before
Nearly lost to Davidson, a 14 seed.
Barely escaped Butler.
Lost badly to Syracuse, a team we easily defeated a few weeks before.

We had two solid wins in eight games in March--Notre Dame at home, and Miami in the tournament. 
AND against Notre Dame Jack Cooley was sick. Against Miami Reggie Johnson (their leading rebounder) blew out his knee the game before.

Speaking facturally about our March play isn't denigrating the team--its pointing out the falacy that Buzz's odd coaching moves in November and December made us a stronger team in March.

Using the available Kenpom data:

2013: We were ranked 58 on January 1, finished the season ranked 24 after losing in the elite 8 and winning the conference regular season.

2012: We were ranked 27 on January 4, finished the season ranked 18 after losing in the sweet 16 and finishing #2 in the conference.

2011: We were ranked 42 on January 1, finished the season ranked 30 after losing in the sweet 16 and going .500 in a conference that sent 11 teams to the dance after losing literally every game of significance in the pre-conference season.

2010: We were 2-4 in conference on January 20. There are not historical rankings by game listed, but we ended up 11-7 in conference play. After the DePaul loss, I recall KenPom had us ranked 50+ and predicted our conference record at well below .500. Made the tournament as a 6 seed.

So, "facturally" speaking, we play better in the second half of the season than the first half of the season. Not only relative to ourselves, but relative to the rest of college basketball. Your cherry-picked examples could not be less convincing. God you suck at being a negative, contrarian douchebag.

[hairy worthen]

Using the available Kenpom data:

 Your cherry-picked examples could not be less convincing. God you suck at being a negative, contrarian douchebag.

I think that about nearly all of his posts. Glad someone said it so succinctly.

[CTWarrior]

God you suck at being a negative, contrarian douchebag.

I think you meant that he excels at being a negative, contrarian douchebag.  Or did you really mean that he is a negative contrarian douchebag, but his negative contrarian douchebaggery is performed in a substandard manner?

[NersEllenson]

Is Equalizer 84/Joanie?? I should have figured that out. Must have morphed into the new personae when I was in Nepal for 10 months.

Yes Keefe....Equalizer is the reincarnation of Marquette 84/Joanie Crean.

[KenoshaWarrior]

But we beat Rutgers....and St. Johns...and Davidson...and Butler...

So this is the new thing?  Not only do we have to win games, but we have to blow people out to be satisfied? Wins come with an asterisk if they aren't "solid" wins?

Didnt know this was BCS football where you had to win games by 30?

[Lennys Tap]

Using the available Kenpom data:

2013: We were ranked 58 on January 1, finished the season ranked 24 after losing in the elite 8 and winning the conference regular season.

2012: We were ranked 27 on January 4, finished the season ranked 18 after losing in the sweet 16 and finishing #2 in the conference.

2011: We were ranked 42 on January 1, finished the season ranked 30 after losing in the sweet 16 and going .500 in a conference that sent 11 teams to the dance after losing literally every game of significance in the pre-conference season.

2010: We were 2-4 in conference on January 20. There are not historical rankings by game listed, but we ended up 11-7 in conference play. After the DePaul loss, I recall KenPom had us ranked 50+ and predicted our conference record at well below .500. Made the tournament as a 6 seed.

So, "facturally" speaking, we play better in the second half of the season than the first half of the season. Not only relative to ourselves, but relative to the rest of college basketball. Your cherry-picked examples could not be less convincing. God you suck at being a negative, contrarian douchebag.

+ 10,000. Perfect, except for the final sentence. He's great at being those things - a 1st team All American.

[The Equalizer]

Your cherry-picked examples could not be less convincing.

The argument I responded to was that our performance last March demonstrated we got stronger at the end of the year.

If you're going accuse me of "cherry picking" data, please answer these two simple questions:

1.  Which game in March did I leave out?
2.  Which of the 8 games do you think I described incorrectly.

I know its a lot easier for you to simply call me a douchebag and try to change the argument.  But perhaps for once in your life you could actually, you know, make an intelligent response.

[GOO]

After Christmas break, Buzz usually has the team playing at a different level and a lot more wrinkles in the offense.  

[The Equalizer]

2011.  Sweet 16
2012.  Sweet 16
2013.  Elite 8

First, i'm not sure what 2011 or 2012 has to do with how we played in March 2013.  Can you explain the relevance?

Second, nobody is disputing we won the games that got us to the Elite Eight.  I'm simply pointing out that we didn't play stronger during that 8 game stretch in March.

I know its a lot easier for you to try to change the argument, but could you tell me WHY you disagree with the assessment I provided for the 8 games in March 2013 that I described.

[The Equalizer]

+ 10,000. Perfect, except for the final sentence. He's great at being those things - a 1st team All American.

In your first post, you claimed to be a 1970 grad.  Assuming you were 22 on graduation, that makes you around 65 years old.

Its a shame that the years have turned you into a bitter old man incapable of accepting any perspective other than your own.

Perhaps you should scroll through your old posts--half of them are either outright attacks on me, or egging on someone else for doing the same.

[TJ]

I agree with Equalizer here in that it's very silly to claim that losing in November somehow makes us stronger in March.  

I also agree with the idea that MU wasn't particularly strong most of last March.  They did win a lot of games and most of the time it was fun (except the Davidson game for me at least - I was too angry about the first 38 minutes to be too happy about the last 2), but to say they were playing their best is not accurate.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I think you meant that he excels at being a negative, contrarian douchebag.  Or did you really mean that he is a negative contrarian douchebag, but his negative contrarian douchebaggery is performed in a substandard manner?

Haha the first one. just worded it poorly. too early.

[The Equalizer]

I never made that argument.  I just don't understand tearing down last year's accomplishments and saying "well, it really wasn't that impressive."

Yeah honestly it was.  Perhaps I have too long a history dealing with bad Marquette basketball, but last March was fun.

Yes, it was fun--but only because we won.  I think you would admit that it would have been a lot less fun had we not pulled off wins against Rutgers, St. Johns, Davidson or Butler.  It would have been a lot more fun ahd we not been blown out by Notre Dame or stuffed by Syracuse.

Please accept my apologies--I misinterpeted your comment--probably becuase it was interspersed with all the other crap I put up with.  I'm sorry--from my perspective it seemed like you were piling on with the others.  I accept your explanation that you were really just asking about our chances against the same opponents in November.

The answer to your question is yes, I think we would have beat the same teams in November as we did in March.  The only exception may be Miami becuase they didn't lose Reggie Johnson until the NCAA tournament. Keep in mind that early in the year, before his injuries he pulled a double-double in their victory against MSU, and would have been a force in keeping Gardner in check.

I think we would have beat Rutgers, St. Johns and Davidson--probably by more substantial margins than we did in March.  I don't think we would have sufferd a blowout to Notre Dame (as we did in the BET) earlier in the year.

[MerrittsMustache]

I agree with Equalizer here in that it's very silly to claim that losing in November somehow makes us stronger in March.  

I also agree with the idea that MU wasn't particularly strong most of last March.  They did win a lot of games and most of the time it was fun (except the Davidson game for me at least - I was too angry about the first 38 minutes to be too happy about the last 2), but to say they were playing their best is not accurate.

No one said that losing in November makes a team stronger in the March. The point is that Buzz isn't going to install every play and every set that he has right away because 1) it would be overwhelming, especially for the frosh, 2) he stresses defense first and 3) he doesn't want all of his sets on film this early in the season, if at all. Advanced scouting and film study are MAJOR aspects of modern sports. Buzz obviously knows that so he's not going to draw up and show his "best" plays in a November non-conf game. If using one of those plays meant the difference between winning and losing, sure, he's going to use it. But burning a play in order to cut a 10-point lead to 8 with 2 minutes left isn't something that Buzz, or any other successful D1 coach is going to do.

Teams typically get better as seasons progress and a big part of that is the coach figuring out his rotations and who plays well together and another important part is a coach using those rotations to install more of what he thinks will be the most beneficial down the stretch.

[hairy worthen]

Please accept my apologies--I misinterpeted your comment--probably becuase it was interspersed with all the other crap I put up with.  I'm sorry--from my perspective it seemed like you were piling on with the others.  I accept your explanation that you were really just asking about our chances against the same opponents in November.

I am so sorry you have to "put up" with all the crap.  Guess what, you do not have to post here.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Yes, it was fun--but only because we won.  I think you would admit that it would have been a lot less fun had we not pulled off wins against Rutgers, St. Johns, Davidson or Butler.  It would have been a lot more fun ahd we not been blown out by Notre Dame or stuffed by Syracuse.

Please accept my apologies--I misinterpeted your comment--probably becuase it was interspersed with all the other crap I put up with.  I'm sorry--from my perspective it seemed like you were piling on with the others.  I accept your explanation that you were really just asking about our chances against the same opponents in November.

The answer to your question is yes, I think we would have beat the same teams in November as we did in March.  The only exception may be Miami becuase they didn't lose Reggie Johnson until the NCAA tournament. Keep in mind that early in the year, before his injuries he pulled a double-double in their victory against MSU, and would have been a force in keeping Gardner in check.

I think we would have beat Rutgers, St. Johns and Davidson--probably by more substantial margins than we did in March.  I don't think we would have sufferd a blowout to Notre Dame (as we did in the BET) earlier in the year.

Going way out on a limb here - you are a lawyer, correct?

[lab_warrior]

Using the available Kenpom data:

2013: We were ranked 58 on January 1, finished the season ranked 24 after losing in the elite 8 and winning the conference regular season.

2012: We were ranked 27 on January 4, finished the season ranked 18 after losing in the sweet 16 and finishing #2 in the conference.

2011: We were ranked 42 on January 1, finished the season ranked 30 after losing in the sweet 16 and going .500 in a conference that sent 11 teams to the dance after losing literally every game of significance in the pre-conference season.

2010: We were 2-4 in conference on January 20. There are not historical rankings by game listed, but we ended up 11-7 in conference play. After the DePaul loss, I recall KenPom had us ranked 50+ and predicted our conference record at well below .500. Made the tournament as a 6 seed.

So, "facturally" speaking, we play better in the second half of the season than the first half of the season. Not only relative to ourselves, but relative to the rest of college basketball. Your cherry-picked examples could not be less convincing. God you suck at being a negative, contrarian douchebag.

+1 to all of this

and this

2011.  Sweet 16
2012.  Sweet 16
2013.  Elite 8

F*** the trend line, let's discuss the couple outlier points.  That's just good
solid analysis.

[The Lens]

You know who was playing really well at the end of last year?

Davidson

They were beating an Elite 8 team for 39:30!

[Lennys Tap]

In your first post, you claimed to be a 1970 grad.  Assuming you were 22 on graduation, that makes you around 65 years old.

Its a shame that the years have turned you into a bitter old man incapable of accepting any perspective other than your own.

Perhaps you should scroll through your old posts--half of them are either outright attacks on me, or egging on someone else for doing the same.

1. I actually graduated at 21, but I did recently turn 65.

2. I am old but not bitter. I have a beautiful wife, four wonderful children and two awesome granddaughters (and look forward to many more). I'm active (I can still run a 5K in 21 minutes), healthy and think living in the USA in 2013 is terrific. You can find bitter, turn back the clock 60 years to the "good old days" folks here but I'm not one of them. I'm open to multiple perceptions on a myriad of topics and have even agreed with you a time or two. What I'm not open to is a guy who massages the facts to fit a false narrative. Too often you are that person.

3. Half? Really? That would be over 2300 posts, (aren't you an auditor?) which is, of course, preposterous. I do plead guilty to swapping personal insults with you from time to time. That's on both of us.

[4everwarriors]

Lenny, you're not eatin' many grains or sugars, are you?

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny, you're not eatin' many grains or sugars, are you?

Way too many, Doc. I run to get rid of them.