Spreading ripples of Vander going pro

[mugrad2006]

Vander's career earnings had he stayed 1 more year and gotten a college degree with a chance to get drafted >>>>> Vander's career earnings after leaving college with no degree and having no chance of getting drafted (because he didn't, regardless of how weak the draft class was).

Just because the valedictorian of Watertown High immediately begins making money by working on the family farm out of high school rather than going to Harvard to get a degree and has to put making money on hold doesn't mean it was the right decision.

Whoa Whoa Whoa what did you say about Watertown High valedictorian... /shakes fist

[MerrittsMustache]

Vander's career earnings had he stayed 1 more year and gotten a college degree with a chance to get drafted >>>>> Vander's career earnings after leaving college with no degree and having no chance of getting drafted (because he didn't, regardless of how weak the draft class was).

Just because the valedictorian of Watertown High immediately begins making money by working on the family farm out of high school rather than going to Harvard to get a degree and has to put making money on hold doesn't mean it was the right decision.

Earning his degree would make no difference to Vander's earning potential. He "majored" in basketball while at Marquette. Pro basketball players have a limited window to make money by playing basketball. I'm not sure how his career earnings would have gone up all that significantly had he played one more season for free.

That's an incredibly flawed analogy. Earning a degree from Harvard is all but guaranteeing that a person will make more money than having only a HS diploma. Van staying in school another year guaranteed absolutely nothing.

The real question is: Is Vander truly happy with his decision and with his life? If the answer is yes, then he absolutely made the right choice.

[StillWarriors]

I bet Buzz is probably a little surprised that Jake Thomas cannot shoot in games.  If we shoot 28% from 3 against Ohio State, it's a very different game.

This is a great point. You watch Jake in warm ups or at Marq Madness and he hits long 3s repeatedly; it just has not carried over into games. Tough to say if he's rushing his shot a bit in games or what, but it has to be frustrating for all involved. A guy in Jake's role consistently knocking down the spot up 3 can make such a huge difference. Absent hitting that shot regularly, Jake becomes a liability. He is certainly capable, but he can only get so many opportunities. Hopefully it will come soon.

[4everwarriors]

Has to get off the snide, a'ina?

[wadesworld]

Earning his degree would make no difference to Vander's earning potential. He "majored" in basketball while at Marquette. Pro basketball players have a limited window to make money by playing basketball. I'm not sure how his career earnings would have gone up all that significantly had he played one more season for free.

That's an incredibly flawed analogy. Earning a degree from Harvard is all but guaranteeing that a person will make more money than having only a HS diploma. Van staying in school another year guaranteed absolutely nothing.

The real question is: Is Vander truly happy with his decision and with his life? If the answer is yes, then he absolutely made the right choice.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there.  How many basketball players play college basketball at division 1 schools in the United States, go undrafted, play overseas, and then get picked up by NBA teams?  I'm sure there are examples out there (like Dwight Buycks), but they are few and far between.  Vander had 0 chance to get drafted, and a slim chance to make a roster whether he was a 2nd round pick or an undrafted free agent.  Considering the improvements he made from freshman to sophomore year and sophomore to junior year, there is no reason to believe he wouldn't have improved from junior to senior year.  Not only that, but he would've had the opportunity to actually play the position that gave him his only shot to make it to the NBA and to learn the position for a year (point guard).  No NBA team is going to take a chance on a shooting guard who can't shoot; however, teams will take a chance on a big, athletic point guard who can make plays for himself and others, play defense, and get into the middle of a defense even if he can't shoot (see: Rondo, Rajon).  Had Vander stayed around another year, there is no doubt he would've gotten time at the point guard, learned the position for a year, and had the opportunity to show NBA teams he had what it takes to run a team from the point guard.  Regardless of whether the draft was stronger or weaker, Vander would've come into the seasons as one of the biggest names in college basketball and been on every preseason All American list.  He averaged 14.5 points per game and would be playing in a weaker conference.  There is no reason to believe he couldn't have averaged over 15 points per game while also putting in significant time at the point guard position and been an All American this year.  His chances of being drafted in this coming draft as opposed to last year's draft, despite last year's draft being weaker, would've increased significantly.  Heck, he would've at least had a chance, unlike last year.

Having said all that, even if he had stayed at Marquette for his senior season and gone undrafted without being signed by anybody, earning his college degree absolutely would increase his future earnings.  Let's say Vander plays 15 years and earns $100,000/year, on average, overseas.  I have absolutely no clue what they're paying him right now, but I would think that's a decent chunk of change for playing professional basketball in Israel like he is now.  That's $1.5 million over his 15 year career.  Definitely much better than your average college graduate after 15 years.  But then he is done.  He makes no more money in that career.  Vander will at some point need to find some source of income after his basketball career is over (unless he somehow ends up finding his way to the NBA and sticking around, where he'll make considerably more and be set for life, but again the American player going overseas and making it back to the NBA is very rare).  Having a college degree is the absolute minimum requirement now to even get a low paying, entry level job.  Heck, he couldn't even come back and be a broadcaster or analyst for basketball games.  There are plenty of former professional (NBA) basketball players who have their Comm. degrees who can fill those spots.  A former Israeli league player without a degree isn't going to fill a spot like that.  So what's he going to do?  Do you really think that Vander's degree would not be beneficial to his future earnings?

[ChicosBailBonds]

This.

Buzz and Marquette surprised by Vander decision


http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/marquettes-vander-blue-taking-his-shot-at-the-nba-eq9ivqr-203228131.html

[GGGG]

I am going to bump this thread to say that after last night, it is painfully obvious to me that Vander was even more valuable than most people recognized. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I am going to bump this thread to say that after last night, it is painfully obvious to me that Vander was even more valuable than most people recognized. 

No need to bump, IMO.  Definitely valuable....should have stayed as it would have benefited all sides, including him.

[brewcity77]

I am going to bump this thread to say that after last night, it is painfully obvious to me that Vander was even more valuable than most people recognized. 

Some people still won't recognize it.

[GGGG]

Some people still won't recognize it.

Of course they won't.  Because he was the whipping boy around here for so long.  Yet he played more than any freshman has under Buzz so far.  (And he deserved those minutes.)  He struggled offensively, but his defense was still top notch, and he grew completely as a player until he became the leader last year.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Of course they won't.  Because he was the whipping boy around here for so long.  Yet he played more than any freshman has under Buzz so far.  (And he deserved those minutes.)  He struggled offensively, but his defense was still top notch, and he grew completely as a player until he became the leader last year.

Now he's in Israel, and kicking tail in Scrabble I hope.  First couple of games he played in they got smoked.    Last I checked they were 1-5 and lost both games he played in since joining the team.  Not a great team by the looks of things.

[MerrittsMustache]

Having said all that, even if he had stayed at Marquette for his senior season and gone undrafted without being signed by anybody, earning his college degree absolutely would increase his future earnings.  Let's say Vander plays 15 years and earns $100,000/year, on average, overseas.  I have absolutely no clue what they're paying him right now, but I would think that's a decent chunk of change for playing professional basketball in Israel like he is now.  That's $1.5 million over his 15 year career.  Definitely much better than your average college graduate after 15 years.  But then he is done.  He makes no more money in that career.  Vander will at some point need to find some source of income after his basketball career is over (unless he somehow ends up finding his way to the NBA and sticking around, where he'll make considerably more and be set for life, but again the American player going overseas and making it back to the NBA is very rare).  Having a college degree is the absolute minimum requirement now to even get a low paying, entry level job.  Heck, he couldn't even come back and be a broadcaster or analyst for basketball games.  There are plenty of former professional (NBA) basketball players who have their Comm. degrees who can fill those spots.  A former Israeli league player without a degree isn't going to fill a spot like that.  So what's he going to do?  Do you really think that Vander's degree would not be beneficial to his future earnings?

Your entire first paragraph was all hypothetical. Therefore, Van staying in school another year guaranteed absolutely nothing.

I guess Van will retire from the Euroleague at age 35, with $1.5M in the bank and have no choice but to get a job at Foot Locker in Mayfair Mall. You know that people can go back to school to finish their degree after they initially leave college, right? Even if he doesn't, he'd be able to find a job coaching at some level if he's got 15 years of playing experience under his belt.

[GGGG]

Now he's in Israel, and kicking tail in Scrabble I hope.  First couple of games he played in they got smoked.    Last I checked they were 1-5 and lost both games he played in since joining the team.  Not a great team by the looks of things.

Not sure why you keep bringing up what he should have done or what he is doing now.

I am speaking specifically to what he would bring Marquette this year. 

[brandx]

Earning his degree would make no difference to Vander's earning potential. He "majored" in basketball while at Marquette. Pro basketball players have a limited window to make money by playing basketball. I'm not sure how his career earnings would have gone up all that significantly had he played one more season for free.

That's an incredibly flawed analogy. Earning a degree from Harvard is all but guaranteeing that a person will make more money than having only a HS diploma. Van staying in school another year guaranteed absolutely nothing.

The real question is: Is Vander truly happy with his decision and with his life? If the answer is yes, then he absolutely made the right choice.

Good post.

[brandx]

No need to bump, IMO.  Definitely valuable....should have stayed as it would have benefited all sides, including him.

Would have definitely helped MU basketball. No way to know if would have helped Vander. NBA scouts already had 3 years to watch him and didn't think he was even worthy of a late 2nd round pick. With a much, much stronger draft class, I believe it is unlikely he would have been drafted after staying one more year. Upside is a huge characteristic when drafting and 1 more year isn't gonna increase the upside.

[chren21]

Would have definitely helped MU basketball. No way to know if would have helped Vander. NBA scouts already had 3 years to watch him and didn't think he was even worthy of a late 2nd round pick. With a much, much stronger draft class, I believe it is unlikely he would have been drafted after staying one more year. Upside is a huge characteristic when drafting and 1 more year isn't gonna increase the upside.

I will agree with that but by staying he had nothing to lose and a lot to gain.  He would have been pre season all American possibly and been the star of a great team. Not many guys get that chance.

[MU82]

You know what?

Excellent college basketball teams lose guys to the NBA early ALL THE TIME.

One could argue that it actually will be a good sign if Marquette starts having more early departures. For those who claim not to want 1-and-dones, you can't cheer when we land a Carmelo Anthony or Anthony Davis type, OK?!?!?

As for Vander specifically ... no, he wasn't ready for the NBA and he might have gotten bad advice. But still, if somebody had told me after my junior year that I could make six figures doing something I love and that I had at least an outside shot at immediately reaching the top of my profession, I would have bolted without giving it a second thought. I loved college but didn't particularly like school, and Vander, by all accounts, had similar feelings (at least about hating school).

[77ncaachamps]

Looks like he's doing well on a team that's last in its league.

http://basketball.eurobasket.com/player/Vander_Blue/197724#Player Stats

[4everwarriors]

Musta grown some, huh?

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

Has to get off the snide, a'ina?

http://offtheschneid.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/ots/

[chren21]

So he is actually starting for a team in Israiel?  Wonder if he wishes he was the star for a top ten team?

[brewcity77]

I'm really trying not to think about Vander this year. Seems like crying over spilled milk.

One other ripple...it has forced the rest of this team to grow up in a hurry. Instead of being a stopgap when Vander rests, Mayo comes in knowing often he has to be the man. Instead of being a freshman who can learn from the bench, JJJ is learning against D1 opposition up close. Instead of shifting Van over to the point, Derrick has had to quickly learn that the role is his, and he has to assert himself for the team to be its best. And Jamil has been forced to be the kind of player who goes 1-5 on the floor.

I don't know how well we have it figured out yet. I'm sure there will be more growing pains, and looming tests against Wisconsin, San Diego State, New Mexico, and Creighton all before the New Year will tell us more about this team. But I thought it might take longer than this. Really glad to see this team coming together in Van's absence. Many of us had Final Four dreams for this season. I'm starting to think that even without Van those might not be impossible dreams.

[wadesworld]

I'm really trying not to think about Vander this year. Seems like crying over spilled milk.

One other ripple...it has forced the rest of this team to grow up in a hurry. Instead of being a stopgap when Vander rests, Mayo comes in knowing often he has to be the man. Instead of being a freshman who can learn from the bench, JJJ is learning against D1 opposition up close. Instead of shifting Van over to the point, Derrick has had to quickly learn that the role is his, and he has to assert himself for the team to be its best. And Jamil has been forced to be the kind of player who goes 1-5 on the floor.

I don't know how well we have it figured out yet. I'm sure there will be more growing pains, and looming tests against Wisconsin, San Diego State, New Mexico, and Creighton all before the New Year will tell us more about this team. But I thought it might take longer than this. Really glad to see this team coming together in Van's absence. Many of us had Final Four dreams for this season. I'm starting to think that even without Van those might not be impossible dreams.

Hate to burst your blue and gold bubble, but Michigan State, Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, Ohio State, and Arizona would all smoke us. Syracuse, Louisville, and Oklahoma State would all more than likely give us a pretty good whooping too. This team is fun to watch grow and will be playing it's best basketball of the year come March, but the talent difference between those teams and this Marquette team are very large. We scored 35 points at home to Ohio State who, in my opinion, is not even a top 5 team in the country. Even with Vander, with all the talent out there this year and much of it being young (aka will be better at the end of the year) I'm not sure we have a great shot at a Final Four. Certainly a better shot than without him, but still we're not THAT good.

[brewcity77]

That's the beauty of the tournament. Yes, we'll still need the right draw and I'm not saying we'll cut down nets in April, but it's not an impossible dream. Win the league and we should be a 2 or 3. That means maybe one or two upsets to get to the Final Four. And in March, sometimes someone else does it for you (how else could UW reach an Elite 8?). I don't need blue and gold glasses to see that a 2/3 seed would most likely only play 1 team on that list, and with a defense first team and a PG that doesn't turn it over along with a ton of senior leadership up front, it's not at all an impossible dream. Not saying it's likely, just not impossible.

[MUHoopsFan2]

Would have definitely helped MU basketball. No way to know if would have helped Vander. NBA scouts already had 3 years to watch him and didn't think he was even worthy of a late 2nd round pick. With a much, much stronger draft class, I believe it is unlikely he would have been drafted after staying one more year. Upside is a huge characteristic when drafting and 1 more year isn't gonna increase the upside.

Yes it would have. Especially if the team won the Big East again and he played some PG expanding his resume. He would have been drafted this time.

The main reason why he was not was because of the question of what is he, and his jump shot and his maturity to lead a team with the ball in his hands. Both of which he could have improved upon by staying.

If Marcus Smart returned and the kid at Louisville did and he won a title....he should have returned.