Worst starting backcourt at Marquette in ... how long?

[MarquetteDano]

Thomas is just horrendous. I understand people get sensitive and lovey-dovey when it comes to Thomas but it's cringeworthy that he's a starting guard for Marquette. Under a different coach, there would be foaming at the mouth on this development.

I think there is some middle ground here.  I agree that preferably Thomas only averages 15 minutes a game or so.  Hopefully, between the other guards on the roster this can happen.  I do disagree with the "horrendous" comment however.  Unless by horrendous you mean he should average 15 minutes a game.

I think he has a role on this team but that role should not be 25-30 minutes a game in the long run.  Buzz clearly thinks he is good enough right now to warrant those minutes so the freshmen are not coming around as fast as hoped.

We will just have to trust that a proven coach knows what he is doing than a bunch of posters on this board.

[brewcity77]

If this is the best starting defensive backcourt at Marquette in ... how long, does that offset some of the offensive problems?

[dgies9156]

Let's not over-react here.

Last year, we had the Florida game. We stank that day!

The year before, we had a Florida game. As I recall, we stank then too! Oh, and don't forget the LSU game at Baton Rouge. We really stank there too!

And who could forget the Vanderbilt game in Milwaukee. We didn't hit crapola that night.

Folks, as you may recall, there was a not a shortage of tournament games in any of these years. We had bad games. We will have bad games again. We're dealing with college students and somedays, our guys don't have it.

Add to the fact that a bunch of these fellows are freshmen.

I suspect there is some really deep soul searching going on at the "Al" this week. Not to mention some changes and re-commitment to Marquette-style basketball. I suspect apologizing on the Marquette Radio post-game show is not something Buzz wants to do again!

[Boone]

Very true. Buzz isn't a miracle worker, who can suddenly transform Derrick and Jake into a backcourt that can compete at the highest level. I don't hold out  much hope for Mayo either; he's never been more than a wildly inconsistent chucker.  

[willie warrior]

I think there is some middle ground here.  I agree that preferably Thomas only averages 15 minutes a game or so.  Hopefully, between the other guards on the roster this can happen.  I do disagree with the "horrendous" comment however.  Unless by horrendous you mean he should average 15 minutes a game.

I think he has a role on this team but that role should not be 25-30 minutes a game in the long run.  Buzz clearly thinks he is good enough right now to warrant those minutes so the freshmen are not coming around as fast as hoped.

We will just have to trust that a proven coach knows what he is doing than a bunch of posters on this board.

Thomas should get no more than 8 minutes--unless he starts draining some 3's.

[nyg]

If Derrick Wilson and Jake Thomas were the starting backcourt at Wisconsin, Notre Dame, etc., this board would be ripping them apart.  No one would be backing them in any light, trying to justify their existence as a starting Division I backcourt.  But they play at MU and loyalty to the players is sometimes an overwhelming issue to overcome.  

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Jake is still one of our better defenders on the court. And yes, he had an awful game but he is coming off a great game against Grambling. And yes, it was against Grambling but 3/5 from 3 is still pretty good. Jake has a good stroke, I honestly believe that this is a complete mental thing for him. He just needs a few more games like he had against Grambling to get his confidence up.

However, even though I am defending Jake and I like Derrick, I do agree that this is one of the least talented backcourts we have had in awhile. I however remain optimistic that they will figure out a flow that will work for this team

[ATL MU Warrior]

If Derrick Wilson and Jake Thomas were the starting backcourt at Wisconsin, Notre Dame, etc., this board would be ripping them apart.  No one would be backing them in any light, trying to justify their existence as a starting Division I backcourt.  But they play at MU and loyalty to the players is sometimes an overwhelming issue to overcome.  

You are saying this as if it is a bad thing?  Why the hell else would you give a rip about the team and consistently root for them other than loyalty to the team, and by extension the players? 

[BCHoopster]

Jake is still one of our better defenders on the court. And yes, he had an awful game but he is coming off a great game against Grambling. And yes, it was against Grambling but 3/5 from 3 is still pretty good. Jake has a good stroke, I honestly believe that this is a complete mental thing for him. He just needs a few more games like he had against Grambling to get his confidence up.

However, even though I am defending Jake and I like Derrick, I do agree that this is one of the least talented backcourts we have had in awhile. I however remain optimistic that they will figure out a flow that will work for this team

Truly it is one of the worst backcourts in 50 years, only year that might be worse was when Diener got hurt.  I say nothing against those players, they are what they are.  If you want
to blame anybody blame the coach for recruiting those kids.  Derrick can not shot the ball, how do you recruit that type of player.  Jake is a transfer, from Milwuakee, a walk-on who was
very lucky to get a three year scholarship, they needed one minority on the team.  He was worth the risk.  But he really is a walk-on, it shows how Vander left a whole on this team.  
They will get better.  But it is time to show those kids the bench, and work with the underclassmen.  Would they have done worse, I doubt it.  My daughter played 3rd singles at Nicolet her
freshman year, and at that time they only took 6 kids to state.  I asked the coach if she was one of the six, and he said yes.  He put the 2nd singles and her together to play doubles,
played 3 weeks together and finished second in state.  Buzz needs to that as well.  See how the 2nd team will do.  Is Buzz to stubborn, we will see in the next few weeks.  To bad, Duane Wilson got hurt, should put the ball in his hands and sink or swim with him, much like TC gave the ball to Dominic James.

[Dreadman24]

Truly it is one of the worst backcourts in 50 years, only year that might be worse was when Diener got hurt.  I say nothing against those players, they are what they are.  If you want
to blame anybody blame the coach for recruiting those kids.  Derrick can not shot the ball, how do you recruit that type of player.  Jake is a transfer, from Milwuakee, a walk-on who was
very lucky to get a three year scholarship, they needed one minority on the team.  He was worth the risk.  But he really is a walk-on, it shows how Vander left a whole on this team.  
They will get better.  But it is time to show those kids the bench, and work with the underclassmen.  Would they have done worse, I doubt it.  My daughter played 3rd singles at Nicolet her
freshman year, and at that time they only took 6 kids to state.  I asked the coach if she was one of the six, and he said yes.  He put the 2nd singles and her together to play doubles,
played 3 weeks together and finished second in state.  Buzz needs to that as well.  See how the 2nd team will do.  Is Buzz to stubborn, we will see in the next few weeks.  To bad, Duane Wilson got hurt, should put the ball in his hands and sink or swim with him, much like TC gave the ball to Dominic James.

Well said

[frozena pizza]

I remember when Bart Miller ran the point.  It didn't last long though.  I hate to say that because Bart's a great guy, but like Jake, he simply wasn't good enough to play at that level.  Derrick and Jake are serviceable back-ups that hustle and play defense.  But if they are going to get major minutes, our upside is fairly limited.  They are not going to suddenly take drastic steps forward and become scorers.  Really wish we had redshirted Cadougan that first year when he was hurt.

[mu-rara]

This is the sentiment that gets ignored the most by many in this forum. People can cling to optimism, can cling to Buzz getting a team better, can cling to horrible losses in every year he's been coach that didn't derail a season. But clinging to hope on Wilson/Thomas suddenly turning it around to the point of being, at the least, a serviceable high major backcourt seems unrealistic.

Wilson is what Wilson is. I like his game but not for 38 minutes and not when one of his "stars" was pathetic. Thomas is just horrendous. I understand people get sensitive and lovey-dovey when it comes to Thomas but it's cringeworthy that he's a starting guard for Marquette. Under a different coach, there would be foaming at the mouth on this development.

I am not clinging to Jake ands DeWil.  I am going with history.  BUzz has always figured out what needs to be done.....playing a different lineup, or coaching up the guys who are playing.  I don't care which he does.  Doubt if many others do either.

[MerrittsMustache]

If this is the best starting defensive backcourt at Marquette in ... how long, does that offset some of the offensive problems?

It doesn't. Fans care about points, baby! If MU lost to OSU 92-75, there wouldn't be nearly the angst on this board.

[Dreadman24]

Derek Wilson and JT starts and plays SIGNIFICANT minutes. Is Buzz pranking us? Those that are ok with this is lying to yourselves. We are not UWM we are MARQUETTE. As fans we deserve better!

[bilsu]

If Derrick Wilson and Jake Thomas were the starting backcourt at Wisconsin, Notre Dame, etc., this board would be ripping them apart.  No one would be backing them in any light, trying to justify their existence as a starting Division I backcourt.  But they play at MU and loyalty to the players is sometimes an overwhelming issue to overcome.  

I actually think Jake would be a better player at Wisconsin, because his game fits their style better. They like to shoot threes and Bo coaches his players to be set to shoot the three. Buzz's offense is not designed around the three. How many times have we seen Thomas have an open shot and look to pass first. Late in the last game Thomas had an open shot, but drove instead and turned the ball over. Notre Dame also sets picks for their three point shooters. I half suspect that if Thomas was starting at either of those schools, we would be saying why can we not get a white guy that can shoot like that.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Thomas cannot make threes.

[brewcity77]

It doesn't. Fans care about points, baby! If MU lost to OSU 92-75, there wouldn't be nearly the angst on this board.

Sad, but I suspect true. Not sure anyone will be very happy that this year's team will likely succeed in a fashion more similar to what we are used to from Wisconsin.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Thomas cannot make threes.

Went 3/5 against Grambling and tied the single game three point record when he was at South Dakota. He can hit threes. Just needs to find his confidence at this level

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Derek Wilson and JT starts and plays SIGNIFICANT minutes. Is Buzz pranking us? Those that are ok with this is lying to yourselves. We are not UWM we are MARQUETTE. As fans we deserve better!

-100 (if we can give +s we can give -s right?)

[Dreadman24]

-100 (if we can give +s we can give -s right?)

*scratches head* waiting for the next joke..

[forgetful]

Went 3/5 against Grambling and tied the single game three point record when he was at South Dakota. He can hit threes. Just needs to find his confidence at this level

I agree with this.  Watch the Grambling game and then watch the others where he is missing.  The big difference, how the shot is set up.

Everyone is harping on Thomas for not hitting the shots.  Saying he is not a game time shooter.  Although he has struggled, what most forget is that shooting is as much how it is set up as it is for the shooter knocking it in.

Our team is horrible at passing (both last year and this year).  Passes are not accurate and not hitting the shooter in a position where he can immediately go up for a shot in rhythm.  Shooters make shots because of repetition, when the pass is off, the shot will be off.

If you want to see our guys start knocking more shots down in games, we need our players to provide crisp, accurate passes that land already in the shooting pocket. 

We rush our passes too much by starting to run towards where they are going next before completing the pass.  Its like a receiver in football taking his eyes off the ball to look downfield.  Fix the passes and the shots will start going in.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

*scratches head* waiting for the next joke..

Wasn't a joke. Just stating that I thought your comment was unintelligent

[Golden Avalanche]

It doesn't. Fans care about points, baby! If MU lost to OSU 92-75, there wouldn't be nearly the angst on this board.

Fans care about seeing potential. Scoring points is not related, which is why Wisconsin basketball fans have been jumping over the moon for the past 15 years. 

The performance put in by Marquette on Saturday raised questions about offensive continuity, team personality, personnel roles, overall preparedness, and future development. The spirited discussion in the wake of that performance has not only been expected but entirely justified.

In the end of this grand bargain of crap regurgitation we call MU Scoop, the crowd of those who act so nonchalantly toward dreadful performances in order to feel some sense of superiority in their pointless existences is no worse than those who find fault in Marquette losing the opening tip of games.

[Dreadman24]

Wasn't a joke. Just stating that I thought your comment was unintelligent

ok

[MerrittsMustache]

Fans care about seeing potential. Scoring points is not related, which is why Wisconsin basketball fans have been jumping over the moon for the past 15 years. 

The performance put in by Marquette on Saturday raised questions about offensive continuity, team personality, personnel roles, overall preparedness, and future development. The spirited discussion in the wake of that performance has not only been expected but entirely justified.

In the end of this grand bargain of crap regurgitation we call MU Scoop, the crowd of those who act so nonchalantly toward dreadful performances in order to feel some sense of superiority in their pointless existences is no worse than those who find fault in Marquette losing the opening tip of games.

Remember Florida last season? 10 days later, MU beat Wisconsin. Remember UWGB last season? MU won 8 of their next 9 before losing an ugly game to Louisville. How did they respond to that one? By winning 8 of 10 to finish the regular season and win a share of the Big East title.

While I appreciate your overreaction and condescension, this isn't the first or last time that Marquette will lose an ugly game.