No big deal

[muguru]

It frustrates me ot no end, when people say early season losses are "no big deal". A loss counts just as much in November, as it does in January or February. Those of you who seem to have this idea that playing well in the conference and that losing a non conference game is "no big deal", have no idea what basketball is about. You play to win the game. This wasn't an exhibition game. It was a game that officially counted on MU's record. The committee will tell you non conference games matter(non conference does NOT=exhibiton games), they always have, they always will. Bottom line, bury yourself a deep enough hole in non conference and it won't matter one damn bit what you do come December 31st. So please refrain from the laisse fair attitudes. THEY ALL COUNT THE SAME. A loss vs. Creighton on December 31st, will count for 1 loss on their record, just like...wait for it...just like the Ohio State game did.

[mu_hilltopper]

Agree, muguru. 

Although I'd disagree that "they all count the same" beyond the "1" in the loss column. 

This was a big loss, at home, and it shows our weakness starting the year, which, oh by the way, was our weakness in just the last decent opponent we played, scoring 39 points on an even bigger stage.

It's a big deal.

[Goose]

Loss like yesterday is a big deal regardless of the time of year. You have to play the players that give you best chance to win and hopefully we will see that in upcoming games.

[brewcity77]

Did last year's blowout at Florida have a major impact on our season? Did the Vandy home loss? In this day and age, no on goes undefeated and unfortunate though it may be, streaks are made to be broken. There will be plenty of more-important games to get worked up about, most important the near-inevitable loss that will end our season.

I don't think anyone is happy to lose, but this board feels like the guy who was yelling at me yesterday after the final buzzer saying we should all be embarrassed. I feel that's a short-sighted approach, and if I've learned anything in the Buzz era, it's that the important stuff happens after we put the new calendar on the wall.

[real chili 83]

Did last year's blowout at Florida have a major impact on our season? Did the Vandy home loss? In this day and age, no on goes undefeated and unfortunate though it may be, streaks are made to be broken. There will be plenty of more-important games to get worked up about, most important the near-inevitable loss that will end our season.

I don't think anyone is happy to lose, but this board feels like the guy who was yelling at me yesterday after the final buzzer saying we should all be embarrassed. I feel that's a short-sighted approach, and if I've learned anything in the Buzz era, it's that the important stuff happens after we put the new calendar on the wall.

+1

[GGGG]

Why on earth should any MU fan be "embarrassed" by any loss?

You're not out there playing or coaching.  You just get to watch.

[Goose]

In last years FL loss we a glimpse of what Vander would bring all season. MU needs a go to guy and they might need to go to bench to find one.

[brewcity77]

In last years FL loss we a glimpse of what Vander would bring all season. MU needs a go to guy and they might need to go to bench to find one.

I think it's far more likely that said go-to guy was on the court yesterday. The problem was one of the candidates missed 12 shots and the other simply hasn't yet shown the will to impose himself on the game.

[lab_warrior]

It frustrates me ot no end, when people say early season losses are "no big deal". A loss counts just as much in November, as it does in January or February. Those of you who seem to have this idea that playing well in the conference and that losing a non conference game is "no big deal", have no idea what basketball is about. You play to win the game. This wasn't an exhibition game. It was a game that officially counted on MU's record. The committee will tell you non conference games matter(non conference does NOT=exhibiton games), they always have, they always will. Bottom line, bury yourself a deep enough hole in non conference and it won't matter one damn bit what you do come December 31st. So please refrain from the laisse fair attitudes. THEY ALL COUNT THE SAME. A loss vs. Creighton on December 31st, will count for 1 loss on their record, just like...wait for it...just like the Ohio State game did.

A loss in November doesn't end the season.  Wins in March are bigger.

[mu_hilltopper]

Can you guys think of a scenario where you would indeed think a loss was a big deal?

Beginning of the year?  Middle or end?   Home court loss, away?  Lose by 2, 12, or 20+ blow out?  Score 80 yet lose, score <40 and lose?

When do you sit back and say "holy crap, that was a bad display, a bad omen for the future"?

In the past X years, has MU ever had a loss that was "a big deal" in your view?  (Injuries notwithstanding.)

I imagine if I did a search after each of MU's "big" losses, there'd be a chunk of guys consistently posting how it wasn't that big of a deal.  Curious if you'd ever see it that way .. or does a later NCAA invite justify the position that no "big loss" really is, if it doesn't knock us from the NCAAs...?

[real chili 83]

Can you guys think of a scenario where you would indeed think a loss was a big deal?

Beginning of the year?  Middle or end?   Home court loss, away?  Lose by 2, 12, or 20+ blow out?  Score 80 yet lose, score <40 and lose?

When do you sit back and say "holy crap, that was a bad display, a bad omen for the future"?

In the past X years, has MU ever had a loss that was "a big deal" in your view?  (Injuries notwithstanding.)

I imagine if I did a search after each of MU's "big" losses, there'd be a chunk of guys consistently posting how it wasn't that big of a deal.  Curious if you'd ever see it that way .. or does a later NCAA invite justify the position that no "big loss" really is, if it doesn't knock us from the NCAAs...?

I hear your point.  However we count it only once in the loss column.

For me, the loss last year that was a big deal was the loss to Syracuse in the tournament.  That was a big deal.  It ended our season, and our shot at a NC. 

The loss yesterday, will be probably one of 10 (plus or minus a few) that we will have this year.  If we bounce back from this, and win the BE, and have a great showing in March, yesterday's loss will be no big deal.  They happen.  It is a long season.

This "no big deal" comment is not to be confused with the need to take every game seriously....you play the game to win....always.

[john31]

To state the obvious this is only a big deal if nothing changes going forward. I simply refuse to believe that this game doesn't result in some personnel changes how can it not? I also worry about the mental ramifications of this loss, the MU team I saw last night wil not ever be able to compete with top teams. Actually the more I think about it this is a big deal given the body language of the players and the coaching vs OSU.

[brewcity77]

Can you guys think of a scenario where you would indeed think a loss was a big deal?

Beginning of the year?  Middle or end?   Home court loss, away?  Lose by 2, 12, or 20+ blow out?  Score 80 yet lose, score <40 and lose?

When do you sit back and say "holy crap, that was a bad display, a bad omen for the future"?

In the past X years, has MU ever had a loss that was "a big deal" in your view?  (Injuries notwithstanding.)

I imagine if I did a search after each of MU's "big" losses, there'd be a chunk of guys consistently posting how it wasn't that big of a deal.  Curious if you'd ever see it that way .. or does a later NCAA invite justify the position that no "big loss" really is, if it doesn't knock us from the NCAAs...?

Feel free to search my posts. I felt the loss to St. John's at home was a pretty big deal. The multiple losses to Louisville all qualify as big losses, most notably puking up a huge lead in the last 5 minutes at Assembly Hall. Any conference loss is bigger than a non-con loss. Any season ending loss is bigger than a November loss. And thus far under Buzz, I can't remember any loss that cost us a spot in the NCAAs. I would welcome anyone to refresh me on the November losses under Buzz that cost us a NCAA berth that I can't recall. Doubt anyone will find any, though.

[tower912]

It sucked.  It wasn't pretty.  It was November.   It counts one in the loss column.   

[Lennys Tap]

Can you guys think of a scenario where you would indeed think a loss was a big deal?

Beginning of the year?  Middle or end?   Home court loss, away?  Lose by 2, 12, or 20+ blow out?  Score 80 yet lose, score <40 and lose?

When do you sit back and say "holy crap, that was a bad display, a bad omen for the future"?

In the past X years, has MU ever had a loss that was "a big deal" in your view?  (Injuries notwithstanding.)

I imagine if I did a search after each of MU's "big" losses, there'd be a chunk of guys consistently posting how it wasn't that big of a deal.  Curious if you'd ever see it that way .. or does a later NCAA invite justify the position that no "big loss" really is, if it doesn't knock us from the NCAAs...?

Every November, December (or January or February ) a "bad" loss is the end of the world on Scoop. When we lost to DePaul in 2009-10 even normally sane Chicos told us to kiss our NCAA hopes goodbye. We ended up with a 6 seed. Off the top of my head, bad losses to Florida, Florida St, N Carolina St, UWGB and LSU and even "bad wins" like Norfork St almost ended our seasons well before Christmas in the minds of the same guys sounding the alarm yesterday and today.

I don't know if this bad loss is the harbinger of a bad season. Maybe this time the naysayers will be right. But as they've been wrong time after time after time on this during Buzz's tenure pardon me if I don't bet the farm on it just yet.

[bilsu]

To score 35 points the lowest in decades and say its no big deal is burying your head in the sand. Buzz has to change the backcourt lineup despite his loyalty to some of his players.

Part of this was because once Ohio St got the lead they were using 35 seconds on every possesssion.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Every November, December (or January or February ) a "bad" loss is the end of the world on Scoop. When we lost to DePaul in 2009-10 even normally sane Chicos told us to kiss our NCAA hopes goodbye. We ended up with a 6 seed. Off the top of my head, bad losses to Florida, Florida St, N Carolina St, UWGB and LSU and even "bad wins" like Norfork St almost ended our seasons well before Christmas in the minds of the same guys sounding the alarm yesterday and today.

I don't know if this bad loss is the harbinger of a bad season. Maybe this time the naysayers will be right. But as they've been wrong time after time after time on this during Buzz's tenure pardon me if I don't bet the farm on it just yet.

Really...care to find it.  Please use search.   I just went there, said nothing of the kind.  Said the NIT could have some name brand teams in it like UNC, UCLA, MU, etc, but a long way to go.  Let me know when you find anything about kissing our NCAA chances good bye.

To help you with your search, the loss was 1,401 days from today, that will help you.  There was another thread where someone said we wouldn't make the NCAAs or NIT, and I told him we would definitely make the NIT (didn't say we wouldn't make the NCAAs, but the prospect of not making the NIT was silly).

Thanks

[Lennys Tap]

Really...care to find it.  Please use search.   I just went there, said nothing of the kind.  Said the NIT could have some name brand teams in it like UNC, UCLA, MU, etc, but a long way to go.  Let me know when you find anything about kissing our NCAA chances good bye.

To help you with your search, the loss was 1,401 days from today, that will help you.  There was another thread where someone said we wouldn't make the NCAAs or NIT, and I told him we would definitely make the NIT (didn't say we wouldn't make the NCAAs, but the prospect of not making the NIT was silly).

Thanks

On January 20, 2010 at 10:10:44 Milwaukee time you wrote "Is this serious? Maybe we can stop the NCAA talk now. What an embarrassment."

Your welcome.

[brewcity77]

I'm at a restaurant for dinner and just got an alert on MU iPhone.


Is this serious?  Maybe we can stop the NCAA talk now


What an embarassment

[4everwarriors]

Part of this was because once Ohio St got the lead they were using 35 seconds on every possesssion.

And that's the other reason we were able to hold them to a mere 52 pts.

[ChicosBailBonds]

On January 20, 2010 at 10:10:44 Milwaukee time you wrote "Is this serious? Maybe we can stop the NCAA talk now. What an embarrassment."

Your welcome.

LOL.   Context sugar....go and read the posts the week prior, that is what it was in response to from some of the jugheads after we beat Providence by 30 points and they were slotting us in for a bid already.  Slow down with the NCAA talk.   Hardly said NCAA dreams were done....give me a break.

Look at the other posts Jan 20 through Jan 30th which more than explain that.  Good try, though.

[Lennys Tap]

LOL.   Context sugar....go and read the posts the week prior, that is what it was in response to from some of the jugheads after we beat Providence by 30 points and they were slotting us in for a bid already.  Slow down with the NCAA talk.   Hardly said NCAA dreams were done....give me a break.

Look at the other posts Jan 20 through Jan 30th which more than explain that.  Good try, though.

Total, unadulterated, BS. You absolutely did not say "slow down" the talk of an NCAA bid. You said STOP any talk of an NCAA bid. As in, it ain't gonna happen....sugar. When you're busted, just admit it. Making up stuff you didn't say won't cut it. You sound like the early defenders of the "if you like it you can keep it" statement. How's that for irony?

[mu_hilltopper]

Sorry, Chicos, they've got the quote.

[Archies Bat]

The loss yesterday, will be probably one of 10 (plus or minus a few) that we will have this year.  If we bounce back from this, and win the BE, and have a great showing in March, yesterday's loss will be no big deal.  They happen.  It is a long season.

I agree with your bolded prediction above.  I hope the rest of the statement turns out correct.  I have some concerns, and they are the same concerns I had last year at this point.

Last year, we were in a similar situation.  After DJO and Jae left, I was concerned who was going to lead the team.  It turned out to be Vander.  While he always had the confidence, last year he improved at finishing at the basket, hitting more of his jumpers, and making decent passes inside.  He stepped up to be a leader who could finish.

That person has yet to step up this year.  Many of us had hoped for Jamil.  I'm not certain that will pan out.  Todd has the confidence, but I don't see the consistent skillset.   Davante can dominate the middle, but contrary to the opinion of some posters here, a big man cannot lead the entire offense like a good point guard or shooting guard.   I believe STJ will improve, and can be a monster rebounder, but is likely not ready to lead.   I'm optimistic about the freshman, but this year, they are freshman.  In summary, I don't see someone yet with skills, experience and killer instinct to be the leader.

I pray someone steps up.  If someone has the capacity to step up, I'm confident Buzz will make it happen.  I am extremely optimistic on the future and direction of the program.  However, I'm still concerned (like I was last year, incorrectly) that this year may be a pause in our climb toward the top.

[mu_hilltopper]

That reminds me .. Kenpom has us at 16-13 for the season now, every away and neutral game as a loss.

I'd imagine 16-13 is the floor of any list of predictions .. odd that his models have us there.

Anyone recall what it looked like 2 weeks ago?