The 2 guards tonight

[DaCoach]

I think some of the criticism of Jake is unfair.  If you really watch the details of the game, the offensive spacing is much better when he's on the floor because the defense has to respect his ability to shoot.  He didn't hurt MU on defense, either.  Of course Mayo is better overall, but when he's on the court he needs the ball.  Jake's a better option when the ball is going low, especially early in the game when that's the plan in order to pick up some fouls on the other team's bigs. 

Jake also had a couple nice "hustle" plays.  In my view he absolutely belongs at this level and contributes a lot of intangibles.

I'd prefer a tangible scorer to Jake's intangibles. 2FT in 22 min. just isn't good enough.

[niquejamesfan]

I don't have the time to read thru the 4 pgs so sorry if this is a repeat but the bottom line is that d will and jake look scared to shoot an I don't see that changing. I don't care what they do on the def end, you can't have 2 guys on the floor at the same time that are scurred. 

That said if Van wouldn't have left, this team wouldn't be a F4 pipe dream, it would almost be a lock

[wadesworld]

Thank God it's a guard's game, our big men suck, right willie?

[MarquetteDano]

You consider a guy who makes 14 3 pointers, less than 1 every 2 games, to be a sniper?  Wow.  I consider a guy like Stephen Curry or Steve Novak, who are good for 3-5 a game, snipers.

I don't think many snipers score a total of 4 points (all in 1 play) in an entire conference season can be considered a sniper.  Maybe he'll multiply that by about 40 this year and we can revisit it.  I'm not holding my breath, though.

No, I consider a team's best three point shooter to be a sniper.  I don't think Jake is going to average 3 3-pointers a game.  Barring major injuries at the guard spot, Jake is not going to average more than 15 minutes a game.

I used the 14 three pointers as a baseline since everyone thinks he cannot hit any threes.  So we have established at least you think he can hit 14 three pointers this year.  Do you think he will hit 20 threes this year?

[brewcity77]

No, I consider a team's best three point shooter to be a sniper.  I don't think Jake is going to average 3 3-pointers a game.  Barring major injuries at the guard spot, Jake is not going to average more than 15 minutes a game.

I think you're being waaaaay too generous in your definition of sniper. Simply being a team's best three-point shooter does not make one a sniper. Last year, our best three-point shooters were Vander and Jamil. I wouldn't consider either of them to have been snipers. The sniper is the guy that you cannot leave alone on the perimeter because he is going to make the open shot. The guy who is going to drain at least 2-3 threes every game, and often more. DJO is the closest thing we've had to a sniper in the Buzz era. Acker was close because of his ridiculous accuracy, but I'm not sure he was enough of a volume shooter to really be considered a sniper. Novak was a sniper. Diener was a sniper. In the past decade, DJO, Novak, and Diener are the only three guys that I'd really say were snipers.

Thomas has the practice accuracy to be a sniper. From watching him in the Pro-Am, he has the ability to hit three-point shots that no one at Marquette has been able to hit since Novak graduated. But he hasn't done it in game. Even when we manage to get him an open look, he's usually just off. His stroke is pretty, he is usually always close, but until they actually start swishing the net, the guy will never be considered a sniper. Further, right now we are facing defenses that are still adjusting. The contested looks right now are going to be the open looks come January. If he can't hit a contested or even wide-open three in November, what are the odds he's going to do it in February or March?

Listen, I love Jake's effort. The kid has fought through to walk on at a high-major when in all honesty he would have been a star at South Dakota. And the scholarship was never guaranteed here. I have no doubt he's a great practice player and an excellent sniper in practice for the guys to practice three-point defense against. But counting on him to hit in-game shots, he just hasn't proven he can do that. We all loved the 4-point play in the Syracuse game, but that has proven to be the anomaly. The guy has hit 10 threes in his MU career, and half of those came in laughers over Mississippi State and UMBC. Outside of those two games, he is 5-30 in his career here. That is not a sniper. And if you think the team leader this year will hit 14 threes on the season, we're in a ton of trouble. Last year Junior hit 14 threes, and he ranked 4th on the team in threes made. I expect Mayo, Jamil, Juan, and probably 2-3 other guys to hit 14 or more threes this year.

[PE8983]

The question isn't whether JT will hit 10, 15, or 20 threes this year.
That's completely dependent on the minutes he gets and how much he wants to jack it up.
The problem is he will do it in the 25% range cause he can't shoot with this level of competition.
He can't get open because he's not athletic enough.
He can't create his own shot.
He can't penetrate and drive the lane, and finish or dish.
All of these are things you need out of your shooting guard (2G).
He is not even at the level of a mid-major starting 2G
Belongs in lower level D1
There's a reason why he's a walk-on.

[MarquetteDano]

I think you're being waaaaay too generous in your definition of sniper.

My lord you guys with the sniper... If you look at my original post my comment was about him being one of the snipers on the team.  Go look at wrote I actually wrote versus focusing on the word sniper.

Then all of a sudden I am saying he is Diener or Novak.  I know you guys don't struggle with reading comprehension to that degree so it is disingenuous at best to make the leap that when I say "one of the snipers on the team" I mean he is now Novak.

I have no problem arguing whether Thomas or not is going to be a key contributor on this team from a three point shooting standpoint (god help me... one of the snipers on the team).  But how you guys turned this into I am now saying he is Steph Curry is really comical.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I can't believe there are 4 pages on this...

Jake was "fine". If he makes a couple of shots, then he's a useful role player.

Unfortunately, he missed a couple of open looks, which really hurts his effectiveness.

If Jake can't take and make a couple of shots per game, he's not going to play.

If he can shoot a good percentage, then he's going to get 10+min. per night because MU still needs more/better shooting.

Also, I love Juan, but I thought he looked worse than Jake but maybe my expectations are just to high for Juan.

[4everwarriors]

Juan and Jake can have a seat next to each other 'til they figure it out.

[bilsu]

The dude has had over 2 years in Buzz's system.  We can stop saying it's a confidence thing or it's a system thing.  It's not.  It's a "he can't shoot with a defender close to him" thing.  Sure, he can make 21 3 pointers in 1 minute when he stands at the top of the key and has a ball handed in rhythm to him for a minute straight with no defender anywhere on the court.  I also watched Trend freaking Blackledge make 11 straight 3 pointers from a good 3 feet behind the 3 point line in warmups.  Not many Division 1 college basketball players can't make a warmup 3 pointer with some consistency.  Good players who can actually produce in games do it with defenders.  Jake has not shown that to us, and it's not because he hasn't had an opportunity.

This I dissagree with this. The problem is that Jake does not have a green loght to shoot whenever he wants. I seen Jake shoot on the move and if that is what Buzz wanted him to do he could. Look at Buycks who is an excellant ofensive player. Buzz did not let shoot whenever he wanted to. Buzz's style is to look for the pass first instead of gunning at will.

[GGGG]

This I dissagree with this. The problem is that Jake does not have a green loght to shoot whenever he wants. I seen Jake shoot on the move and if that is what Buzz wanted him to do he could. Look at Buycks who is an excellant ofensive player. Buzz did not let shoot whenever he wanted to. Buzz's style is to look for the pass first instead of gunning at will.

So the new theory is that Jake is a good shooter but Buzz doesn't let him shoot?

[wadesworld]

This I dissagree with this. The problem is that Jake does not have a green loght to shoot whenever he wants. I seen Jake shoot on the move and if that is what Buzz wanted him to do he could. Look at Buycks who is an excellant ofensive player. Buzz did not let shoot whenever he wanted to. Buzz's style is to look for the pass first instead of gunning at will.

Don't tell that to Todd and Davante. The difference is those guys can make shots in game situations. Jake can not. If Jake was absolutely lighting it up in all in-game situations in practice (aka against high major defenders) do you really think Buzz would be telling him "Look to pass first, we don't need your shooting." Call me crazy, but I doubt it.

Where have you seen him make shots on the move? The Milwaukee Pro Am? That's the same place where I could to and score 20 ppg. It's meaningless. We've seen guys like Junior Cadougan score 60 points in a game there. It's fun to see people in the wide open setting, but even the "contested" shots are completely uncontested in comparison to Big East defense.

[willie warrior]

Juan and Jake can have a seat next to each other 'til they figure it out.

Agreed. And they were both ready to bail last year. I do not see the love for Juan. While he may be a likable kid and he does hustle, he cannot shoot well, cannot play adequate D, and continues to look lost out there. And if Williams is so big on playing minutes to guys that D up, these two are not those guys.

[forgetful]

All those complaining about Jake.  When you watch the game, look at how far his defender sags away from him...never more than 3 feet, because they don't want him to get any kind of look.  If we had another guard capable of driving the lane, there would be ample openings.

That is why the lineup with Mayo and Thomas in at the same time has some success.  Mayo can penetrate and Jake's presence, whether he made an open look or not opens lanes.

You want Jake to knock down open looks, put two guards on the floor that can penetrate and dish...they either give help to stop the penetration (open looks for Jake) or we get opportunities at the rim.

[GGGG]

All those complaining about Jake.  When you watch the game, look at how far his defender sags away from him...never more than 3 feet, because they don't want him to get any kind of look.  If we had another guard capable of driving the lane, there would be ample openings.

They can play him that close because he is no threat to pull the ball on the floor and take it to the basket.  And you'd think that if he were that much of a threat...and would open up holes in the defense...that he would have seen more playing time last year.  For as poor an outside shooting team they had last year, he barely played.

[forgetful]

They can play him that close because he is no threat to pull the ball on the floor and take it to the basket.  And you'd think that if he were that much of a threat...and would open up holes in the defense...that he would have seen more playing time last year.  For as poor an outside shooting team they had last year, he barely played.

Last year when we had problems with people packing in the lane and blocking the driving lanes, we did put Jake in to open up the floor...and it worked. Why was Jake always on the floor when we needed a drive at the end (aka Vander's game winners).

[GGGG]

Last year when we had problems with people packing in the lane and blocking the driving lanes, we did put Jake in to open up the floor...and it worked. Why was Jake always on the floor when we needed a drive at the end (aka Vander's game winners).

I understand that.  But that pretty much makes him a situational player. 

[forgetful]

I understand that.  But that pretty much makes him a situational player. 

I can agree with that.  I'm just hoping this year he has progressed in some of his skills.  The flip to your situational player argument is D. Wilson.

Last year his role was to bring the ball across half-court and start the offense and not turn it over for 6 minutes a game (breather for Junior).  Those skills are fine for that type of situational player, but not fine for a starting pg.

This year his skillset apparently is to bring the ball across half-court, make the first pass and not turn it over...still a situational player, not a starting pg.

[NersEllenson]

I'm just shocked this thread has devolved into a thesis on Jake Thomas.  Admittedly, when he transferred here - I felt he'd be more than a typical walk on - and could contribute.  Not ready to throw the towel in on him yet - but I'm not nearly as bullish on him now as I was at the time of his transfer in - never thought he'd be a star...but thought he'd be a good court spacer..and hit the occasional open 3 with consistency....which he just hasn't done.

The bigger thing this thread should be about is Todd Mayo.  What an efficient game.  No way he'll be playing only 20-23 minutes per game as season ramps up - he'll need to be on floor for 30+ minutes for team to reach its potential..and the returns we'll see with Todd will go up as he gets long stretches PT..which he never got last year.  He's a rhythm player and you just can't get into a rhythm for 3 minute runs as he got last year..

[Markusquette]

I'm just shocked this thread has devolved into a thesis on Jake Thomas.  Admittedly, when he transferred here - I felt he'd be more than a typical walk on - and could contribute.  Not ready to throw the towel in on him yet - but I'm not nearly as bullish on him now as I was at the time of his transfer in - never thought he'd be a star...but thought he'd be a good court spacer..and hit the occasional open 3 with consistency....which he just hasn't done.

The bigger thing this thread should be about is Todd Mayo.  What an efficient game.  No way he'll be playing only 20-23 minutes per game as season ramps up - he'll need to be on floor for 30+ minutes for team to reach its potential..and the returns we'll see with Todd will go up as he gets long stretches PT..which he never got last year.  He's a rhythm player and you just can't get into a rhythm for 3 minute runs as he got last year..

Todd needs to start and play the majority of the minutes at SG. 

[bilsu]

I'm just shocked this thread has devolved into a thesis on Jake Thomas.  Admittedly, when he transferred here - I felt he'd be more than a typical walk on - and could contribute.  Not ready to throw the towel in on him yet - but I'm not nearly as bullish on him now as I was at the time of his transfer in - never thought he'd be a star...but thought he'd be a good court spacer..and hit the occasional open 3 with consistency....which he just hasn't done.

The bigger thing this thread should be about is Todd Mayo.  What an efficient game.  No way he'll be playing only 20-23 minutes per game as season ramps up - he'll need to be on floor for 30+ minutes for team to reach its potential..and the returns we'll see with Todd will go up as he gets long stretches PT..which he never got last year.  He's a rhythm player and you just can't get into a rhythm for 3 minute runs as he got last year..

There is nothing to argue about Mayo. I sure everyone here thinks he had a great game.

[NersEllenson]

There is nothing to argue about Mayo. I sure everyone here thinks he had a great game.

Good point...guess you could just argue though that Todd should be starting and getting at least 10 more minutes than he got Friday night....and the most likely candidate those would come from is Jake.

Don't like moving Todd to the point...as feel he'll be a bigger asset as the shooting guard.  With Todd and Devante rolling well, and likely Jamil - it isn't critical* that we get point production out of Point Guard position...just a great game manager - great D, no turnovers. 

[keefe]

My lord you guys with the sniper... If you look at my original post my comment was about him being one of the snipers on the team.  Go look at wrote I actually wrote versus focusing on the word sniper.

This was a question from the SAT:

What image is least like the others?

[ChicosBailBonds]

RIP Chris Kyle

[wadesworld]

This was a question from the SAT:

What image is least like the others?

Well according to some here they're all snipers. So trick question, the answer is none.