[Paint Touches] JUCO transfers come full-circle for Buzz

[PaintTouches]

"I'm a f—–g junior-college guy. So you look at me different because I'm the coach, but you're going to talk about those guys? I'm not good with that," Williams said. "I am an ass when it comes to that sort of stuff. I'm going to protect my people, no matter what you think of them." -Buzz

http://painttouches.com/2013/10/08/juco-transfers-come-full-circle-for-buzz/

[TedBaxter]

Crowder and Buycks failed to qualify out of high school, the former because of receiving bad advice attending a non-accredited high school in Georgia. For the other three, a lack of Division I interest and/or funds to attend a university straight out of high school — just like Williams — was the only route those players had.

It wasn't Crowder's high school that was non-accredited, it was his first JUCO stop, South Georgia Tech.  Buycks apprantly received poor advice from a high school guidance counselor which led to Indian Hills instead of Bradley University.

[Dawson Rental]

Crowder and Buycks failed to qualify out of high school, the former because of receiving bad advice attending a non-accredited high school in Georgia. For the other three, a lack of Division I interest and/or funds to attend a university straight out of high school — just like Williams — was the only route those players had.

It wasn't Crowder's high school that was non-accredited, it was his first JUCO stop, South Georgia Tech.  Buycks apprantly received poor advice from a high school guidance counselor which led to Indian Hills instead of Bradley University.

Poor advice?  It got him ultimately to Marquette, didn't it?

[We R Final Four]

Crowder and Buycks failed to qualify out of high school, the former because of receiving bad advice attending a non-accredited high school in Georgia. For the other three, a lack of Division I interest and/or funds to attend a university straight out of high school — just like Williams — was the only route those players had.

It wasn't Crowder's high school that was non-accredited, it was his first JUCO stop, South Georgia Tech.  Buycks apprantly received poor advice from a high school guidance counselor which led to Indian Hills instead of Bradley University.

That's what I thought as well.  Didn't coach huggy bear go and see Jae and asked him what he was doing at a non-accredited school?

2 years later JC puts 28 Pts up on West Virginia in the BEast opener.

[Eldon]

Crowder and Buycks failed to qualify out of high school, the former because of receiving bad advice attending a non-accredited high school in Georgia. For the other three, a lack of Division I interest and/or funds to attend a university straight out of high school — just like Williams — was the only route those players had.

It wasn't Crowder's high school that was non-accredited, it was his first JUCO stop, South Georgia Tech.  Buycks apprantly received poor advice from a high school guidance counselor which led to Indian Hills instead of Bradley University.

Why would anybody go to University of Phoenix Prep?

[Eldon]

"I'm a f—–g junior-college guy. So you look at me different because I'm the coach, but you're going to talk about those guys? I'm not good with that," Williams said. "I am an ass when it comes to that sort of stuff. I'm going to protect my people, no matter what you think of them." -Buzz

http://painttouches.com/2013/10/08/juco-transfers-come-full-circle-for-buzz/

Anybody else think of a certain priest when they read this?  Hint: the name rhymes with Pilarz

[Lennys Tap]

Anybody else think of a certain priest when they read this?  Hint: the name rhymes with Pilarz

I think of three guys. Their names "rhyme" with Scott, Larry and Chico.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I think of three guys. Their names "rhyme" with Scott, Larry and Chico.

First three that came to my mind.

I want at least one top-flight JUCO player on every year's roster in my ideal world. Love that they get their ultimate chance to shine at my alma mater.

[GGGG]

The problem with non-qualifying Jucos is two years is usually not enough to have them complete their course of study and graduate from MU...and that leads to APR issues.  With McKay's early commitment, they had an extra year to work on his schedule to make sure he was taking classes that would transfer to Marquette.  (For instance, MU doesn't allow any PE credits to transfer...for all of their students, not just athletes.)

Those are real, legitimate issues that Marquette is right to address.  Of course that doesn't mean that MU shouldn't take *any* non-qualifying Jucos, but they have to be limited in nature.  The two that we have brought in under Buzz have yet to graduate, while the three qualifying Jucos have all graduated.  (Well, except for JFB from what I understand...he had enough to march but not enough to actually get the degree.)

[jsglow]

What I hope happens is that the 2 year JUCOs complete their degrees via summer school as their schedule permits.  MU has really ramped up their summer program including the addition of numerous online classes. Even a deep playoff run would allow enrollment in the second summer session that begins right around July 4.  MU does have a Senior residency requirement (meaning that you can't transfer your final credits in from a different institution) but I wonder if that could be waived in special situations allowing a guy like Jae to finish up in Texas.  The summer program is a good money maker for MU so I'd think they'd love to advertise 'work on your degree with #mubb'.

To that end, I trust and hope DWade has been encouraged to finish up once his playing days end.  Part of being a good role model for his own kids as well as the Boys and Girls Club.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think of three guys. Their names "rhyme" with Scott, Larry and Chico.

I'm touched

You can add a bunch of major donors to the program as well, if you really wanted to be thorough.  But hey, their opinions don't matter.   

[Lennys Tap]

I'm touched

You can add a bunch of major donors to the program as well, if you really wanted to be thorough.  But hey, their opinions don't matter.   

So your sources tell you, but Buzz is still here and Pilarz isn't. And Larry hasn't talked about making Buzz a better coach in quite some time. I'd say the worm has turned - and none too soon.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I want at least one top-flight JUCO player on every year's roster in my ideal world. Love that they get their ultimate chance to shine at my alma mater.

I want as many top flight players on every roster in my ideal world.  I want them to graduate, play well on the court, win, represent the university well and succeed in their lives.  Love that they get a chance to do that at my alma mater.  Those that sully my alma mater through off the court issues, not too crazy about them.  If they are JUCO, high school, or full college transfers and they perform well on and off court, graduate....God Bless them.  Well done. 

[The Lens]

I'm touched

You can add a bunch of major donors to the program as well, if you really wanted to be thorough.  But hey, their opinions don't matter.   

Define bunch & define major.

I have not heard one donor have issues.  But I have heard plenty with issues with Pilarz and his at best indifference to basketball.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Define bunch & define major.

I have not heard one donor have issues.  But I have heard plenty with issues with Pilarz and his at best indifference to basketball.

Not seeing eye to eye with Buzz does not equal indifference to basketball. His excitement about working with such a strong athletic program was one of the main reasons why he got hired to be our president. People like to rip on Pilarz without knowing any facts. Now I will say I prefer Father Wild, but I mean who can beat Bobby Wild?

And I know plenty of people who have issues with admitting students who don't qualify academically. Let's be honest, admitting Crowder after attending a non-accredited juco was questionable at best. They took him knowing full well that he wouldn't graduate. In the end, the good he did for our university outweighs the negative of not graduating, but lets at least admit what happened there.

[The Lens]

Not seeing eye to eye with Buzz does not equal indifference to basketball. His excitement about working with such a strong athletic program was one of the main reasons why he got hired to be our president. People like to rip on Pilarz without knowing any facts. Now I will say I prefer Father Wild, but I mean who can beat Bobby Wild?

And I know plenty of people who have issues with admitting students who don't qualify academically. Let's be honest, admitting Crowder after attending a non-accredited juco was questionable at best. They took him knowing full well that he wouldn't graduate. In the end, the good he did for our university outweighs the negative of not graduating, but lets at least admit what happened there.

TAMU, note that I described it as "at best indifference".  Also, define qualify academically?  We've been admitting kids to MU for decades to play sports who are not on par, transcript-wise, with the rest of the incoming class.  I think it's funny to go after jucos when we've been stashing basketball players in the College of Communications forever.  If the NCAA clears them, I'm fine.   Then it's up to Buzz & Co to get them to graduate and not hurt our APR so bad that we hit UConn status.

[GGGG]

Not seeing eye to eye with Buzz does not equal indifference to basketball. His excitement about working with such a strong athletic program was one of the main reasons why he got hired to be our president. People like to rip on Pilarz without knowing any facts. Now I will say I prefer Father Wild, but I mean who can beat Bobby Wild?

And I know plenty of people who have issues with admitting students who don't qualify academically. Let's be honest, admitting Crowder after attending a non-accredited juco was questionable at best. They took him knowing full well that he wouldn't graduate. In the end, the good he did for our university outweighs the negative of not graduating, but lets at least admit what happened there.

How many people throughout the history of MU basketball would have qualified otherwise?  You think DWade would qualify?  Cmon...  We are going to continue to have players who wouldn't meet those standards, so those "plenty of people" that you know better learn how to deal with it.

And I think calling Pilarz "indifferent" to athletics isn't much of a stretch.  I mean if he wanted to come to a school that had a higher profile in athletics, he certainly didn't show much of it.  His attendance at men's games was irregular. 

[Brewtown Andy]

The problem with non-qualifying Jucos is two years is usually not enough to have them complete their course of study and graduate from MU...and that leads to APR issues.

APR is merely "did you stay stay in school with eligibility remaining and did you stay academically eligible?" Actually earning a degree at the end of your eligibility doesn't factor in to it.

If a player leaves after becoming academically ineligible, that's different.

[GGGG]

APR is merely "did you stay stay in school with eligibility remaining and did you stay academically eligible?" Actually earning a degree at the end of your eligibility doesn't factor in to it.

If a player leaves after becoming academically ineligible, that's different.

OK thanks for that explanation.

[Lennys Tap]

And I know plenty of people who have issues with admitting students who don't qualify academically. Let's be honest, admitting Crowder after attending a non-accredited juco was questionable at best. They took him knowing full well that he wouldn't graduate. In the end, the good he did for our university outweighs the negative of not graduating, but lets at least admit what happened there.

You and your "plenty of people" live in fantasy land. There is no university playing D1 basketball (including the Ivies) that doesn't take basketball players who would be rejected out of hand without their special skill. As for Crowder, I think he left school in April of his senior year to prepare for the NBA draft. When your program is producing NBA level talent that's going to happen.

[Badgerhater]

You and your "plenty of people" live in fantasy land. There is no university playing D1 basketball (including the Ivies) that doesn't take basketball players who would be rejected out of hand without their special skill. As for Crowder, I think he left school in April of his senior year to prepare for the NBA draft. When your program is producing NBA level talent that's going to happen.

College prepares you for a profession, for some people that profession is NBA basketball.  I think we can all agree that MU is not some basketball factory that chews up and spits out players without doing anything to improve their academic status.   Crowder is in a far better place academically then when he started and can pick up that degree when the time is right.

Leaving school in April to prepare for the draft is what prospective NBA players do.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Ya'll completely missed what I was saying.

I am well aware that D1 basketball programs, ours included, admit students who wouldn't get into the school without athletics. I have zero problem with that whatsoever.

Crowder was a unique case. His first year in juco did not count academically. He came in with enough credits to be a sophomore but only had two years of basketball eligibility. With all the time basketball takes up, you cannot tell me that anyone reasonably expected him to graduate before his eligibility ran out.

I have no problem with admitting students who aren't marquette's level academically, they have the chance to learn, achieve, and graduate in four years. Crowder never had that chance. Again, because of all the good he did for our university, the positive outweighs the negative.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The problem with non-qualifying Jucos is two years is usually not enough to have them complete their course of study and graduate from MU...and that leads to APR issues.  With McKay's early commitment, they had an extra year to work on his schedule to make sure he was taking classes that would transfer to Marquette.  (For instance, MU doesn't allow any PE credits to transfer...for all of their students, not just athletes.)

Those are real, legitimate issues that Marquette is right to address.  Of course that doesn't mean that MU shouldn't take *any* non-qualifying Jucos, but they have to be limited in nature.  The two that we have brought in under Buzz have yet to graduate, while the three qualifying Jucos have all graduated.  (Well, except for JFB from what I understand...he had enough to march but not enough to actually get the degree.)

Well said and on point.  There are JUCOs and there are JUCOs, not all created equal.  Some are ready, mature, primed to excel in the classroom and on the court.  Some it is a harder slog.  It can have longer term issues, like the APR, etc.

Nicely done and agree wholeheartedly.

[GGGG]

Well said and on point.  There are JUCOs and there are JUCOs, not all created equal.  Some are ready, mature, primed to excel in the classroom and on the court.  Some it is a harder slog.  It can have longer term issues, like the APR, etc.

Nicely done and agree wholeheartedly.

I appreciate it, but I don't think that Buycks or Crowder weren't "ready, mature, (and) primed to excel in the classroom and on the court."

They just didn't have enough time to finish their degree.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I appreciate it, but I don't think that Buycks or Crowder weren't "ready, mature, (and) primed to excel in the classroom and on the court."

They just didn't have enough time to finish their degree.

A lot of guys that don't qualify fit that bill and go to a JUCO to break into the college scene at a different academic level.  Nothing wrong with it.  I'd like to see an updated study of kids that went to JUCOs that were qualified to go to a 4 year vs those that went to a JUCO that weren't qualified and see how the did in terms of graduation, grades, etc.  There was a study like this many years ago when I was in college athletics, but I don't know if such a follow-up has been done.   There was a pretty distinct difference between the two groups, as you might imagine.