Malek Harris suspended for the season

[CTWarrior]

My wife is a teacher and this is how they do it in Connecticut.  You pick 10 or 12 months.  If you pick 12 months the last check in June is called the "balloon check".

My wife also a teacher (well, a speech pathologist) in the Bridgeport school system.  She is on the Bridgeport Teacher's contract and she gets paid throughout the summer (26 payments/year), except the checks are a little higher because the union dues are not taken out during the summer, but no balloon payment.

We are very familiar with the public schools.  I sent my kid to a Catholic High School, where the kids all do much better than the public high schools, despite the fact that the facilities are not as good and the teachers are less well paid, etc.  I have always said that what you are paying for mostly in a Catholic High School in CT is not religious training, though you get that, not better teachers, not better facilities, not better class sizes, etc.  You are paying for better classmates and thus a better learning environment.

[Aughnanure]

But I disagree with your assessment of our schools. I see the results in the business world daily and, frankly, I find it extremely discouraging. The American educational system is not delivering the results this great nation deserves. I don't know where you live but in the high tech nodes there is a critical shortage of skilled talent. Increasingly, we import the talent needed to deliver next generation technology. Someday, as capital shifts off shore, you will find less coming out of Seattle, San Jose, and Rte 128 and more originating in Shanghai, Hyderabad, and Beijing. Perhaps our schools should start teaching Mandarin and Hindi as American prowess is eclipsed and the call center jobs boomerang back to the less talented Americans.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Three words: N. E. A.

Karl Marx is smiling.

I was thinking more along these lines.

[ChicosBailBonds]

We are very familiar the public schools.  I sent my kid to a Catholic High School, where the kids all do much better than the public high schools, despite the fact that the facilities are not as good and the teachers are less well paid, etc.  I have always said that what you are paying for mostly in a Catholic High School in CT is not religious training, though you get that, not better teachers, not better facilities, not better class sizes, etc.  You are paying for better classmates and thus a better learning environment.

Yup.  There's a reason why so many of our gov't leaders send their kids to private schools. 

[CTWarrior]

But I disagree with your assessment of our schools. I see the results in the business world daily and, frankly, I find it extremely discouraging. The American educational system is not delivering the results this great nation deserves. I don't know where you live but in the high tech nodes there is a critical shortage of skilled talent. Increasingly, we import the talent needed to deliver next generation technology. Someday, as capital shifts off shore, you will find less coming out of Seattle, San Jose, and Rte 128 and more originating in Shanghai, Hyderabad, and Beijing. Perhaps our schools should start teaching Mandarin and Hindi as American prowess is eclipsed and the call center jobs boomerang back to the less talented Americans.

I work in IT and part of my responsibility over the years has been to train end users around the world in SAP.  We know to build in extra time to train Americans in everything.  I can remember the first time I was training customer care in China, one of the students actually interrupted me and asked why I was going so slow and talking to them like they were "stupid".  I realized I trained that slowly because that is what I had to do in the US.  I hate to say it, but over time my company has moved a lot of stuff like customer care to Mexico, and the fact is that you pay a lot less for those people and they do a better job, partiularly with cognitive reasoning.  It seems to me that most Americans who work at that level try to memorize their job, while the in the rest of the world the people try to understand their job, so they can react when curves are thrown their way.  In my experience, I don't see that difference in the workforce in true professionals like accountants, programmers, sales and service engineers that keefe mentions, however, but I don't doubt him.  In my world, it is the entry level staff like shipping clerks and customer service where the differences are very pronounced.

Also, as those I work with in IT retire, it is impossible to find American replacements, and my boss goes out of his to try.  But our last three hires have been Indian transplants.

[Lennys Tap]

LOL.  Clintonesque....depends what is is.  Congratulations.  Keep it going, it is entertaining.  He's had multiple suspensions.  PERIOD.  FACT.  You can carve it up however you wish to convince your brain that having 2 or more suspensions IS NOT multiple suspensions (your words)....whatever makes you believe what you believe.  

LOL, indeed. Not Clitonesque, merely logical. In the SAME post you use "multiple suspensions" and being "suspended over and over again" synonymously. Two possibilities here:

1.If multiple means two, three or more and over and over again means three or more then you were using multiple (as one certainly can) to mean three or more to square with over and over again. You simply had your facts wrong and were over the top in going after the kid.

 2.You were claiming he was suspended twice in paragraph one and three or more times in paragraph two (in which case your post was contradictory and stupid). If you really meant to connote two suspensions in paragraph one and three or more in paragraph two, then I indeed was wrong about how you were using "multiple" but you...? Well, it's a good thing you're not trying to gain acceptance to UW-Oshkosh today.

Question - If you read a story that said the suspect has been convicted of rape "multiple times" and went on to say he's been convicted of rape "over and over again" would you interpret his use of multiple as two? I wouldn't and nobody else with any common sense would either. Context, Chico.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

My wife also a teacher (well, a speech pathologist) in the Bridgeport school system.  She is on the Bridgeport Teacher's contract and she gets paid throughout the summer (26 payments/year), except the checks are a little higher because the union dues are not taken out during the summer, but no balloon payment.

We are very familiar the public schools.  I sent my kid to a Catholic High School, where the kids all do much better than the public high schools, despite the fact that the facilities are not as good and the teachers are less well paid, etc.  I have always said that what you are paying for mostly in a Catholic High School in CT is not religious training, though you get that, not better teachers, not better facilities, not better class sizes, etc.  You are paying for better classmates and thus a better learning environment.

I thankfully don't need to send my kids private school in my town which is part of the reason why I live where I live.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I said nothing about teachers. Or "Union Thugs." But I share some of your thoughts, especially on the role and responsibility of parents. My wife and I had demanding jobs that required significant time and lots of travel. And even though we had Amahs we always ensured one of us was available for school oversight as that was something that could not be delegated. We were actively engaged in their education and they flourished.  My son is a professional educator, teaching university in Italy. I see his passion for his profession, his students, and the art of teaching. He could likely earn more pursuing other interests but he is doing what he loves and I respect that and take great comfort in his choice of career.

But I disagree with your assessment of our schools. I see the results in the business world daily and, frankly, I find it extremely discouraging. The American educational system is not delivering the results this great nation deserves. I don't know where you live but in the high tech nodes there is a critical shortage of skilled talent. Increasingly, we import the talent needed to deliver next generation technology. Someday, as capital shifts off shore, you will find less coming out of Seattle, San Jose, and Rte 128 and more originating in Shanghai, Hyderabad, and Beijing. Perhaps our schools should start teaching Mandarin and Hindi as American prowess is eclipsed and the call center jobs boomerang back to the less talented Americans.

I see part of the problem due to an amazingly big difference between states school curriculumn.  My cousin was subbing Connecticut, but moved to Tampa Florida for two years to get a full time teaching job and get some teaching experience.  He's back in Connecticut now and teaching full-time.  He teaches 5th grade and he said he was shocked that 5th grade coursework in Florida begins where kids in Connecticut reach half-way through 3rd grade.
My Seton Hall friends (husband & wife), the wife is in education in Connecticut and she has a cousin that teaches high school in (what she said) is one of the better districts in Tampa, Florida.  They compared high school curricula from Connecticut & Florida and they found the Senior year AP classes in Florida are the same as what every public high school teaches in Connecticut Freshman year.
This type of stuff distorts the US News & World Report rankings for high schools because they use the percentage of students taking AP classes as one of their criteria.

[willie warrior]

Hmmm....A thread on a suspension of an MU recruit evolves (devolves) into a commentary of 80's and 90's music, our educational system (and the politics associated with it) and union power.

Time for the Superbar?

[Archies Bat]

Hmmm....A thread on a suspension of an MU recruit evolves (devolves) into a commentary of 80's and 90's music, our educational system (and the politics associated with it) and union power.

Time for the Superbar?

Amen

[mu03eng]

I see part of the problem due to an amazingly big difference between states school curriculumn.  My cousin was subbing Connecticut, but moved to Tampa Florida for two years to get a full time teaching job and get some teaching experience.  He's back in Connecticut now and teaching full-time.  He teaches 5th grade and he said he was shocked that 5th grade coursework in Florida begins where kids in Connecticut reach half-way through 3rd grade.
My Seton Hall friends (husband & wife), the wife is in education in Connecticut and she has a cousin that teaches high school in (what she said) is one of the better districts in Tampa, Florida.  They compared high school curricula from Connecticut & Florida and they found the Senior year AP classes in Florida are the same as what every public high school teaches in Connecticut Freshman year.
This type of stuff distorts the US News & World Report rankings for high schools because they use the percentage of students taking AP classes as one of their criteria.

My brother is living proof of this dichotomy.  We lived in Ohio up until he was in the first grade and then we moved to Tampa(AF dad), where he was vastly ahead of his 1st grade classmates.  So far ahead in fact, that for a month until we found out, the teacher told him to bring books to class and read them while she taught the rest of the kids who were so far behind.  As part of our attempt to keep him up we all tutored him, including me even though I was only in the 8th grade.  We only stayed two years before we bolted for Illinois, and my brother was now in the 3rd grade.  You guessed it, he was at least a year behind his peers despite all our efforts.  He has overcome the obstacles and is now a very successful high school science teacher but it put him so far behind the 8-ball I can't imagine what could have been different for him.

And I agree with Keefe, I'm in the technology industry and I have to deal with hardware, firmware, and software development all the time.  Our engineering resources are getting older and we aren't seeing much in the way of replacements that are as cognitively capable.  Very good at execution but struggle with conceptual and doing things the smart way not just the way it's put down on paper. 

I did IB in high school among other things and one of the key things I constantly ran into was open ended assignments.  I had a basic overview of what the teacher was looking for but no detailed deliverable(like a 5 paragraph essay or something).  Forced me to not only come up with a solution but an effective way of presenting the solution.  I think that is missing today.

[avid1010]

I said nothing about teachers. Or "Union Thugs." But I share some of your thoughts, especially on the role and responsibility of parents. My wife and I had demanding jobs that required significant time and lots of travel. And even though we had Amahs we always ensured one of us was available for school oversight as that was something that could not be delegated. We were actively engaged in their education and they flourished.  My son is a professional educator, teaching university in Italy. I see his passion for his profession, his students, and the art of teaching. He could likely earn more pursuing other interests but he is doing what he loves and I respect that and take great comfort in his choice of career.

But I disagree with your assessment of our schools. I see the results in the business world daily and, frankly, I find it extremely discouraging. The American educational system is not delivering the results this great nation deserves. I don't know where you live but in the high tech nodes there is a critical shortage of skilled talent. Increasingly, we import the talent needed to deliver next generation technology. Someday, as capital shifts off shore, you will find less coming out of Seattle, San Jose, and Rte 128 and more originating in Shanghai, Hyderabad, and Beijing. Perhaps our schools should start teaching Mandarin and Hindi as American prowess is eclipsed and the call center jobs boomerang back to the less talented Americans.

interesting as the states with unions all scored the highest on college admittance tests while those with right to work laws were the lowest.  i'm not in love with unions, but it's not their fault.  they did choose to play politics, and that's a choice they live with.  The evidence just seems to show that states with unions have higher achievement on ACT's/SAT's. 

also interesting that our NAEP scores, when broken down by demographics, are higher than other G8 countries (who often don't test all students)

then you have people like diane ravich, who after working for bush and being a huge proponent of standardized testing and no child left behind, took a look at the data and realized she was entirely incorrect.  you can find her latest book in the top 10 of the NY sellers hardcover, but with 2 different duck dynasty books finishing ahead of her i think the argument that she makes is already stated...it might not be the schools, but rather the culture. 

public schools need to get better, but they are achieving more within every sub-group in the united states...the problem is the sub-groups that typically have the lowest scores continue to increase in size. 

it is amazing to me how everyone feels the need to tell public education how to run itself, and how they know better than those in the field.  i'm sure keefe has always been a fan of politicians and private business telling the armed services how to handle its business.  it sounds as if many on here are complaining about science based jobs being in high demand with little supply...i wonder if politicians basing all their evidence of public education on reading and math scores (and paying no attention to science - see no science test even being proposed for the new common core state standards) has anything to do with that, or do you think science teachers just prefer to teach reading and math during lab time?  i recently heard an educational speaker comment that if you switched india's teachers with finland's teachers finland's schools would still be stellar and india's would still struggle...i buy that.

[bilsu]

I was thinking more along these lines.

I was taught by several nuns in grade school. I do not remember them hitting anyone with a ruler, but I know I believe they would hit me with one if I misbehaved.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

interesting as the states with unions all scored the highest on college admittance tests while those with right to work laws were the lowest.  i'm not in love with unions, but it's not their fault.  they did choose to play politics, and that's a choice they live with.  The evidence just seems to show that states with unions have higher achievement on ACT's/SAT's. 

also interesting that our NAEP scores, when broken down by demographics, are higher than other G8 countries (who often don't test all students)

then you have people like diane ravich, who after working for bush and being a huge proponent of standardized testing and no child left behind, took a look at the data and realized she was entirely incorrect.  you can find her latest book in the top 10 of the NY sellers hardcover, but with 2 different duck dynasty books finishing ahead of her i think the argument that she makes is already stated...it might not be the schools, but rather the culture. 

public schools need to get better, but they are achieving more within every sub-group in the united states...the problem is the sub-groups that typically have the lowest scores continue to increase in size. 

it is amazing to me how everyone feels the need to tell public education how to run itself, and how they know better than those in the field.  i'm sure keefe has always been a fan of politicians and private business telling the armed services how to handle its business.  it sounds as if many on here are complaining about science based jobs being in high demand with little supply...i wonder if politicians basing all their evidence of public education on reading and math scores (and paying no attention to science - see no science test even being proposed for the new common core state standards) has anything to do with that, or do you think science teachers just prefer to teach reading and math during lab time?  i recently heard an educational speaker comment that if you switched india's teachers with finland's teachers finland's schools would still be stellar and india's would still struggle...i buy that.

Avid,
From the August 2013 edition of one of my favorite magazines, The Atlantic.

The Architect of School Reform Who Turned Against It
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/09/the-counterrevolutionary/309427/

[avid1010]

Yup.  There's a reason why so many of our gov't leaders send their kids to private schools.  

agreed, and it's also the reason i will send my kids to very diverse (ethnic and socio-economic) public schools...even though the district i live in has the highest scores in the state (also no diversity).  we're not serious about helping poor people in this country (either party), but being of a younger generation, i wonder what is expected of a country that only desegregated schools ~60 years ago.  amazing that obama allows duncan to walk this line...i get unions have been entrenched in racism, but the privatization is essentially admitting we can't educate all students.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I was taught by several nuns in grade school. I do not remember them hitting anyone with a ruler, but I know I believe they would hit me with one if I misbehaved.

I was taught by nuns. No ruler hitting, but they were fond of back of the head slaps and throwing things. Usually erasers. Honestly, it made me pay attention better, I didn't mind it.

[willie warrior]

I was taught by several nuns in grade school. I do not remember them hitting anyone with a ruler, but I know I believe they would hit me with one if I misbehaved.

Maybe not with a ruler, but remember Jake and Elwood getting slapped around with that steel pointer? And we all know that was based on a true story. Because cab Calloway was in the movie, and Jake and Elwood were on a mission from God.

[ChicosBailBonds]

agreed, and it's also the reason i will send my kids to very diverse (ethnic and socio-economic) public schools...even though the district i live in has the highest scores in the state (also no diversity).  we're not serious about helping poor people in this country (either party), but being of a younger generation, i wonder what is expected of a country that only desegregated schools ~60 years ago.  amazing that obama allows duncan to walk this line...i get unions have been entrenched in racism, but the privatization is essentially admitting we can't educate all students.

I send my kids to public schools, despite both my wife and I going to private schools.  We live in a very diverse area and the schools are great, mostly driven by exceptional test scores by the students (who are predominately Asian).  It is one of the reasons we chose to live where we do, because education is a big deal and it is rooted in the culture.  Drives me son nuts, he'd rather play video games, but most of his peers are hitting the books.  That being said, we've waged the War on Poverty for 50 years...I don't agree that we are not serious about helping, we have spent trillions on the issue.  Some people are helped, some people choose not to be helped if you know what I mean.  There's a two way street.  You can give people fish or teach them how to fish, and some people just don't want to learn how to fish.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I was taught by nuns. No ruler hitting, but they were fond of back of the head slaps and throwing things. Usually erasers. Honestly, it made me pay attention better, I didn't mind it.

Depends how old you are.  We had a swatting board on the wall as a reminder, a deterrent.  It was never used, but always wondered if there would be a day where I heard "Thank you Sister, may I have another". 

The ruler, a light smack to the head, a grabbing of the ear lobe, etc, were usually the chosen actions.  Usually only took the class clown or some idiot to get whacked once early in the semester and no one crossed the good sisters any longer.  Hands folded, straight back, do your work.  Play grabass outside, not in the classroom.

[tower912]

Just to chime in before the lock, if the NEA were the problem, then Charter schools would be thriving.   In my state, charter schools are more likely to underperform the public schools in the same district.    With non-union teachers and increased parental involvement.    It is a culture thing, which goes back to the 'old days' thread.    If you want to attract the best and brightest to teach, you have to pay them and not waste time tearing them down because they are in a union.   "Getting rid of sub-par teachers" is a worthless canard because there are is so little incentive for gifted teachers to get into teaching in the public schools.    Who needs that kind of abuse?   Parents must stop being narcissistic and juvenile themselves, turn off the TV's and video games, learn how to say 'no' to their children, to get them to bed at a reasonable hour and quit expecting the public school teachers to do miracles with no support and no money.  

[Galway Eagle]

This thread is stupid now.

[mu03eng]

This thread is stupid now.

This assumes it was ever not stupid

[Pakuni]

Some people are helped, some people choose not to be helped if you know what I mean.  There's a two way street.  You can give people fish or teach them how to fish, and some people just don't want to learn how to fish.

And some people simply are incapable of fishing.

[4everwarriors]

What if you got paid not to fish?

[ChicosBailBonds]

What if you got paid not to fish?

Makes for an angry society wondering WTF they are doing fishing for others getting paid not to.  Bad formula.  What could possibly go wrong.