Change the drinking age

[Sir Lawrence]

So as to not violate the integrity of the Pilarz thread, I bring the drinking age topic to the Superbar. 

In 2008 this was proposed by some rather prominent university leaders:

http://www.theamethystinitiative.org/

In my opinion, it still makes sense five years later. 

[brewcity77]

I agree wholeheartedly. Making something taboo yet attainable only makes it more desirable. There will always be those that abuse alcohol, but I'd rather see kids learn to handle it responsibly. I'm especially not a fan of the driving age being lower than the drinking age.

[real chili 83]

Agree in general.  19 seems right.  18 puts it in the hands of HS sophomores with an older sibling.  It was way to accessible to HS students whe the age was 18. 

[brewcity77]

Agree in general.  19 seems right.  18 puts it in the hands of HS sophomores with an older sibling.  It was way to accessible to HS students whe the age was 18. 

The legal age when I was in HS was 21. We never had problems getting our hands on alcohol. I'm probably more radical than most, but I'd go down to 16 on drinking age and up to 18 on driving age.

[forgetful]

The legal age when I was in HS was 21. We never had problems getting our hands on alcohol. I'm probably more radical than most, but I'd go down to 16 on drinking age and up to 18 on driving age.

I would agree with this.  It works great in Germany.  They end up learning to drink responsibly at home with their parents early in life.  Later, the nostalgia is gone and they are generally more responsible.

Also, the driving age cuts down on a lot of related issues.

[Galway Eagle]

I think 18 for wine and beer 21 for vodka whiskey rum etc that way people can build up a tolerance and be exposed but not be downing shots all their life.  I'm sure it wouldn't work as bars would throw a fit (as an ex bouncer I know I'd hate it) but that's just what I think it should be.

[Jay Bee]

Bring back prohibition.

[tower912]

I've always thought 19 was the right number.   

[melissasmooth]

Bring back prohibition.

bring back the speakeasy

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Agree in general.  19 seems right.  18 puts it in the hands of HS sophomores with an older sibling.  It was way to accessible to HS students whe the age was 18. 

This is what I always thought also.  19 keeps it legally out of high schools for the most part.

My wife grew up in Poland and there is no drinking age, but you have to be 18 to purchase alcohol and it doesn't seem to be an issue. 
As a side note, she visited family this summer and her dad said countrywide they've recently been cracking down hard on drunk driving. 

[GGGG]

The legal age when I was in HS was 21. We never had problems getting our hands on alcohol. I'm probably more radical than most, but I'd go down to 16 on drinking age and up to 18 on driving age.

Ugh.  Have high school kids that need to be shuttled all over and you'll know that having them drive is worth every penny of extra insurance you pay.

And I think the drinking age should be 18.  Old enough to vote...old enough to join the military...old enough to drink.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I actually like 21.

If you are 19 right now, and you are caught with a beer, a lot of people shrug that off.

If you make the drinking age 19, are we ok with 17yr olds drinking? It's a sliding scale.

Now, a lower drinking age will encourage kids to get out of the basement and into a bar/controlled environment (so that's a positive), but overall, I think 21 is good.

[melissasmooth]

three months to go for me

[ChicosBailBonds]

article today on when kids are deemed adults...18 or is it now 25

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2430573/An-adult-18-Not-Adolescence-ends-25-prevent-young-people-getting-inferiority-complex.html

[PBRme]

18

If you are "deemed" responsible enough to sign for a car loan that lasts 36-72 months and have a credit card but not responsible enough to buy a 6 pack.  Seems absolutely ridiculous.

[Golden Avalanche]

I think 18 for wine and beer 21 for vodka whiskey rum etc that way people can build up a tolerance and be exposed but not be downing shots all their life.  I'm sure it wouldn't work as bars would throw a fit (as an ex bouncer I know I'd hate it) but that's just what I think it should be.

Under this, you'd still be dealing with the allure of something you can't have. After six months of drinking beer, a 19 year-old will want liquor. Plus, your tolerance isn't necessarily built across all platforms so the idea of "starting" with beers or wines and graduating to liquors as a form of cautious exposure wouldn't work for most teenagers.

You have to take the mystique out of it all for it to be handled appropriately. American society isn't built to handle this issue intelligently.

[GGGG]

BTW, I would also argue that changing the drinking age to 21 has actually worsened the drinking culture on campus.  As I mentioned in the other thread, I would rather have my kids drinking in a bar or at a campus sponsored event where there is control.  When you see problems such as binge drinking, drinking that leads to sexual assault etc, they almost always come from private parties in an uncontrolled environment.

[melissasmooth]

BTW, I would also argue that changing the drinking age to 21 has actually worsened the drinking culture on campus.  As I mentioned in the other thread, I would rather have my kids drinking in a bar or at a campus sponsored event where there is control.  When you see problems such as binge drinking, drinking that leads to sexual assault etc, they almost always come from private parties in an uncontrolled environment.

what about when you just drink alone

[Jay Bee]

18

If you are "deemed" responsible enough to sign for a car loan that lasts 36-72 months and have a credit card but not responsible enough to buy a 6 pack.  Seems absolutely ridiculous.

I fail to see the logic in this. You can start working long before you're 18 and able to sign for a car loan. You can continue to work to pay the car loan and any responsible credit card purchases.

How does this relate to mind altering chemicals of the devil?

Really. If A & B are OK, why isn't C? Well, because C is completely different from A & B.

I think 21 is fine. I had zero problem stocking my dorm room with beer and liquor (years ago, but... the same methods can be employed today). If you want to drink in the community areas / hallways, put it in the red solo cup.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

BTW, I would also argue that changing the drinking age to 21 has actually worsened the drinking culture on campus.  As I mentioned in the other thread, I would rather have my kids drinking in a bar or at a campus sponsored event where there is control.  When you see problems such as binge drinking, drinking that leads to sexual assault etc, they almost always come from private parties in an uncontrolled environment.

You know, I follow the logic, but is there anything statistical to support that?

I believe rape and sexual assaults are REPORTED more now than ever, but does that mean that they weren't happening way back when (when everybody was drinking at 17,18,19?)

[JWags85]

You have to take the mystique out of it all for it to be handled appropriately. American society isn't built to handle this issue intelligently.

This is the key for me.  People that compare it to Europe, or how it used to be, are looking at it too black and white.  We may see a change a generation from now (similar to how things changed a generation ago going from 18 to 21) but it wouldn't have a profound impact in the near term.   Kids will still drink underage, kids wont think "oh awesome, I can drink this Bud Light, why would I do shots?".  Its very much systematic and should be considered as such.

[GGGG]

You know, I follow the logic, but is there anything statistical to support that?

I believe rape and sexual assaults are REPORTED more now than ever, but does that mean that they weren't happening way back when (when everybody was drinking at 17,18,19?)

No I have nothing statistical to support it.  I just think we have demonized something that didn't need to be demonized.

[Sir Lawrence]

BTW, I would also argue that changing the drinking age to 21 has actually worsened the drinking culture on campus.  As I mentioned in the other thread, I would rather have my kids drinking in a bar or at a campus sponsored event where there is control.  When you see problems such as binge drinking, drinking that leads to sexual assault etc, they almost always come from private parties in an uncontrolled environment.

This is the point that the college presidents in that amethyst project are making.  Treat the use of alcohol as a social experience in a controlled environment. 

[brewcity77]

BTW, I would also argue that changing the drinking age to 21 has actually worsened the drinking culture on campus.  As I mentioned in the other thread, I would rather have my kids drinking in a bar or at a campus sponsored event where there is control.  When you see problems such as binge drinking, drinking that leads to sexual assault etc, they almost always come from private parties in an uncontrolled environment.

I think it's done it further down as well, which is why I support a lower drinking age than driving age. When I was in high school, I was frequently at parties where kids as young as 14 or 15 were binge drinking. It's a problem for everyone from high school age through 21, and honestly, I think it remaind a problem until probably 24 or 25 as it seems quite a few kids simply get accustomed to the binge drinking and suddenly beginning to do it legally doesn't change their tendencies.

I get your point about shuttling kids around, but from a responsibility standpoint, I think a younger age to drink than drive would simply be better. I do like the idea of allowing beer at a younger age than hard liquor.

The counter-argument is that there is still alcoholism in Europe where the laws are more lax. Another possible solution to my personal issue regarding the relative drinking and driving ages is simply more stringent drinking and driving laws. First time offense is a felony and 5 years in prison along with a permanent loss of license. Second offense is life in prison. I imagine that will give people more pause when they get behind the wheel, certainly more than the slap on the wrist system we have now.

[Spotcheck Billy]

My wife grew up in Poland and there is no drinking age, but you have to be 18 to purchase alcohol and it doesn't seem to be an issue. 
As a side note, she visited family this summer and her dad said countrywide they've recently been cracking down hard on drunk driving. 

these two seem to contradict each other