Pelosi through the back door?

[Murffieus]

Nancy Pelosi has a significant Armenian constituancy in her district and has apparently been pressured by them to mount an unbinding resolution condeming Turkey for mass genocide against Armenians (killing 1.5 million Armenians) back in 1915. The condemnation vote passed in committee by 27 to 21 and now moves to the full house for a vote.

Meanwhile Turkey is very irate----recalling its ambassador to the US and moving tanks and troops up to the Iraqi border ostensibly to invade the Kurds which we have been encouraging them not to for obvious reasons.

Never mind the fact that Turkey is a moslem country, a very important ally of the USA, and also 70% of the military supplies destined for Iraq move through forward bases in Turkey and through Turkish
air space.

Now everyone knows that Pelosi hasn't had much success setting timetables for surrender in Iraq in the House of Representatives------could it be that she now goes through the back doorby irritating Turkey to the point where they deny us these supply bases and use of their airspace making support for the troops much more difficult and by encouraging war between Turkey and the Kurds?

The timing is very suspicious-----she says this has been "put under the table far too long". But why now after all these years? She must be aware of the consequences of upsetting the Turks at this time.

Obviously a backdoor attempt to turn back the recent military gains in Iraq to turn American public opinion to vehement opposition to the war to peel more republicans away to their side in legislating surrender by withdrawal!

[mviale]

Is a bit lame as we have our own issues at home - American Indians.

[augoman]

she is an embarrassment to us all.

[77ncaachamps]

Never mind the fact that Turkey is a moslem country, a very important ally of the USA, and also 70% of the military supplies destined for Iraq move through forward bases in Turkey and through Turkish air space.

Let me follow your logic here:

- Local constituents whom she represents are pressuring her. As a politician who is elected by her constituents, she should not then listen to them - for as you say, she's upsetting Turkey.

- Furthermore, she should not upset Turkey because of their value to us at this time even though they killed 1.2 Armenians in a state-driven genocide.

So, politicans should:
1) never listen to those who elect them
2) never condemn friends who do bad things

I now understand how you view politics.

[Murffieus]

Congressional members get petitioned by constituants on all kinds of things, and it's safe to say that some get action and others don't. It would seem to me that something that impacts national security as much as this would, and with the price of oil soaring if Turkey does indeed invade Iraq and the resulting increase in the price of gas (negative effect on our economy)-----not to mention that the subject was something that happened 100 years ago------makes this a "hed herring".

It's imperative that we win in Iraq to keep Al Quida in their box, keep Iran from extending its influence, and keep a moslem Turkey as a KEY NATO ally. If you can see how Pelosi's bill helps all this , I'm all ears.

[mviale]

Murf - armenia is not the real issue.  Turkey is upset with us beacuase we are allowing the PKK to run free in Iraq.  They are making attacks on turkey via the kurdish held area of Iraq.

[Murffieus]

Well if that's the case why is Pelosi rubbing salt into the wound? She should cease and desist----we'll see!

[mviale]

No, she killed it.  Just like how Putin distinquished our war with Iran.  2009, here we come.  Bush cant do much more harm.


Thank goodness.

[Murffieus]

mviale----you would have said the same about Harry Truman back in 1948-52 ("Harry can't hurt us in 1953")----he had a lower approval rating than GWB during the Korean war (Truman's rating was down to 22)-----now because he stood his ground against communist aggression, he's considered one of our greatest presidents ever by historians-----go figure!

Many years from now when the war against islamofacism is over the historians will be saying the same about GWB-----that he had it right all along!

Don't be a short term thinker-----and don't be afraid to go against the crowd who are for the most part short term thinkers!

[mviale]

Thank goodness Russia is providing a bulwark to this presidents low IQ foreign policy.

[Murffieus]

What "bulwark"? GWB has told Putin that Iran isn't going to be allowed to develop nukes----how is Putin going to be a "bulwark" against that-----if Isreal takes out Iran's Nuke sites, what's Putin going to do-----bomb Isreal.

BTW----I see where Iran's chief Nuke negotiator resigned and acording to unanimous reports this morning so did any chance of a nuke diplomatic settlement with it.IMO there never was a chance of a diplomatic breakthrough-----yet you liberals chided GWB for lack of a breakthrough.

Mviale----like most liberals, you're a short term thinker------think of the LONG TERM implications of a Nuke armed Iran--------think of the LONG TERM consequences of a premature pullout of troops from Iraq!

[mviale]

Hey Murf - is Turkey still upset at Nancy or our support for Kurds? 

[Murffieus]

Nancy was the excuse---the lightning rod for the Turks------from a foriegn policy standpoint a very dumb move on her part (a very smart move if she wants to make it more difficult for us to prevail in Iraq, which is likely the case).

We don't support the PPK!

[mviale]

we are in a serious hornets nest:
who do we defend if Turkey Invades Iraq?
what do we do if Israel takes our Iran's Nukes under protection from China and Russia?
what a mess

[ChicosBailBonds]

we are in a serious hornets nest:
who do we defend if Turkey Invades Iraq?
what do we do if Israel takes our Iran's Nukes under protection from China and Russia?
what a mess

It is a hornet's nest and when I have one in my back yard I get rid of it, not ignore it and hope it goes away.


Iran must be delt with and soon.

[Murffieus]

"Mess"? Hardly-----things are getting a lot better-----roadside bombings via IEDs have declined by 80% since June---only 1.2 US soldier deaths in October per day----works out to 37 for the month which is down 75% from just a few months ago.Things are going in the right direction, but you'd never know it because the mainstream news doesn't report it------guess they feel that good news isn't news!

Turkey's after the PKK so we're not going to have to defend anyone.

When you think of Iran, try to think long term----that will help you understand what's going on better!

[ChicosBailBonds]

To this day it amazes me beyond belief that a deranged leader of a country in the Middle East says he wants to destroy another nation (an act of war for just saying it), is pursuing nuclear capabilities, has sponsorsed terrorism with Hezbollah and others, has purchased missile technology from another known terrorist state (North Korea) and some people don't want to do anything about it.

It's absolutely stunning.


What would JFK or Truman do?  Just let Iran become a nuclear power and hold court over the entire region....of course not.

Absolutely STUNNING.

[mviale]

as stunning as Khadafi - oh he is a friend now.

[ChicosBailBonds]

as stunning as Khadafi - oh he is a friend now.

Yup....after we knocked the crap out of him several times and after he saw what we did to Afghanistan and Iraq in toppling their govt's, he then buckled.  Iran hasn't quite learned the lesson yet, Libya did.  Libya also isn't a mere months away from yielding nuclear grade material to put in the hands of terrorists to do their dirty work for them or to do something themselves.

[mviale]

You are a bit disingenuous - Khadafi was offered trade and UN membership if he behaves.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You are a bit disingenuous - Khadafi was offered trade and UN membership if we behaves.

You're being a bit naive

[Murffieus]

You bet----after Reagan sent that armada of aircraft over Libya back in the mid 1980s and bombed the hell out of Khadafy's compound, Khadafy who damn near was killed in the attack changed his stripes overnight-----never was the same antaganistic and confrontational person after that as he was before.

[mviale]

yah it worked for vietnam too.  Diplomacy works

[Murffieus]

Diplomacy works only if BOTH parties are predisposed to a GENUINE  accomodation.

At Munich in 1936----Hitler was predisposed to an agreement, but not to a "genuine" agreement and his couterpart, British Prime Minister Chamberlin went down in history as the epitomy of gullibility as Hitler merely bought time and then marched into Czech!

I ask you mviale----does Ahmadinejad impress you as being "genuinely" interested in negotiations-----he's been approached many times on the Nuke issue and keeps reiterating that Iran has no interest n developing Nukes---"so there is nothing to negotiate" (his words)!

How do you negotiate with religious fanatics that saw peoples heads off?

[77ncaachamps]

Diplomacy works only if BOTH parties are predisposed to a GENUINE  accomodation.

At Munich in 1936----Hitler was predisposed to an agreement, but not to a "genuine" agreement and his couterpart, British Prime Minister Chamberlin went down in history as the epitomy of gullibility as Hitler merely bought time and then marched into Czech!

I ask you mviale----does Ahmadinejad impress you as being "genuinely" interested in negotiations-----he's been approached many times on the Nuke issue and keeps reiterating that Iran has no interest n developing Nukes---"so there is nothing to negotiate" (his words)!

How do you negotiate with religious fanatics that saw peoples heads off?

Great question. I guess the first answer would be, "You don't."

But then again, sending US troops over isn't solving the problem either, nor is it a solution. At the very least, it is a costly means.

Better question: How do you spread democracy in a region that doesn't support it - especially one that is seen as "tainted" if the U.S. is involved?