[Paint Touches] Who will Marquette’s "rival" be in the Big East?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Gotta be teal, right Chicos?

Certainly, UWM fans look at MU as a rivalry. The opposite is not true.

Double teal

[MUHoopsFan2]

Themselves.

[bilsu]

This is not a thread about who we think our rival is. It is a thread about the Big East making the last day of the schedule being rivalry week for all the conference teams. That means our rival on that date is determined by them and they have to take into account 5 games. It seems obvious to me that location of schools will play into the decision, so I expect MU, DePaul, Butler and Creighton will make up two of the games. I guessing it is Butler vs DePaul and Creighton vs MU, but we could be matched with any of those three teams. I put Xavier with Villanova, because they are the middle schools geographically wise. Leaving 4 east cost schools, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall and Georgetown. I figured no one cares about Seton hall and Providence, so I put them together leaving a St. John's/Georgetown match up. I am not sure but, unless there is a change in the conference, whatever these games are this year will always be the end of the conference season games in future seasons, except the home/away team will alternate. Given that we will play every team twice, this is just a marketing ploy by Big East to promote the last game of the season.

To follow up on this there are two other reasons why I think it will be Creighton. First, we play Creighton the first conference game so it makes some sense that they will be our last conference game. However, the biggest reason is that the winner of this game is likely to be the conference champion. The national audiance is not going to care about an MU/DePaul game or an MU/Butler game. They may care about a game with conference title implications. Again this is about marketing.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

To follow up on this there are two other reasons why I think it will be Creighton. First, we play Creighton the first conference game so it makes some sense that they will be our last conference game. However, the biggest reason is that the winner of this game is likely to be the conference champion. The national audiance is not going to care about an MU/DePaul game or an MU/Butler game. They may care about a game with conference title implications. Again this is about marketing.

Good point on them being likely our closest competition for league title this year.... I guess I had misunderstood "rival" to mean a team we would circle on the schedule year-in-year-out, rather than how the games are marketed on Fox this year.... I agree.

but honestly I know almost nothing about Creighton... I hear they have one terrific player (McDermott?), are Jesuit and in Omaha... but that is absolutely it.

I know nobody who went there, don't know their coach and have never watched a game they've played in.

With ND, UW, IU, Georgetown, Nova.... all these things support a rivalry even if that team is down in a given year

"We play Creighton the first conference game so it makes some sense that they will be our last conference game."

This doesn't make any sense to me

[The Equalizer]

This doesn't make any sense to me

Me either.  In fact, from 2003 to 2013, we never played the same team to both start and end conference play.

Based on history, knowing that we start with Creighton, it would probably make more sense that we don't end with them as the last game.

The earlier point on a game with championship implications is spot-on.  The best thing for the league in terms of ratings and national attention is if they have two teams fighting it out for a title.  In my mind that doesn't lock in an MU/Creighton game--it may bring Georgetown into the mix as well, which would be better for the league, as an MU/Georgetown game would have a bigger national audience than MU/Creighton or GU/Creighton. 


Finally, in general, in terms of rivalries its time to accept that we're just not going to have anyone at the level of Notre Dame or Wisconsin.  Think for a moment about why those two teams are rivals:  WIth Notre Dame, its because Marquette was the 2nd choice for a lot of MU students.  When ND turned them down, it made for instant hatred.  With Wisconsin, its the fact that the Badgers have had media saturation for any Wisconsin resident since birth, and not going there is going to naturally cause some irritation.

With our secondary rivals, they've risen to that level becuase those teams consistently beat us and had a polarizing head coach.  Cincy became a CUSA rival because they beat us consistently and Huggins was viewed as a thug.  Louisville because a rival because they consistently beat us (both for recruits in the 70's/80's and on the court, plus Pitinto is viewed as slimy). 

THink about how either of those could apply to, say Xaiver or Creighton.  There is proabaly nobody at MU who was turned down by Xavier or Creighton, and Greg McDermott and Chris Mack don't register on the thug/slime scale either. 

In fact, you have a lot of MU fans that actually LIKE those schools.  Thus, they can't be rivals.

Mabye if Mack coaches his team to take cheap shots on our players, the media declares NYC to be their second home as they constinue to reach the Big East championship game,  and their fans start expressing arrogance and derision towards MU, we MIGHT develope something akin to what we had with Pitt. 

[bilsu]

I said it makes some sense to play them the last game, because we play them the first. That is coming form my impression of Big 10 schedule that often seems to play the second half of the schedule in reverse order. It is not a compelling reason, but the first game will be a hyped for the opening day matchups, so it would make sense to have it a hyped last day match up. During the first game the announcers will talk about how MU and Creighton are the preseason favorites to win the league and they will point to the final game as the possibly deciding the championship all with the idea of hyping the last day.

[GGGG]

I said it makes some sense to play them the last game, because we play them the first. That is coming form my impression of Big 10 schedule that often seems to play the second half of the schedule in reverse order.

They used to do that...but I don't think they do that any longer.

Back in the day, the B10 used to have a "travel partner" type concept where teams would play on Thursdays on Saturday.  For instance, one week Thursday: Iowa @ Wisconsin and Minnesota @ Northwestern.  On Saturdays Iowa and Minnesota would then play @ Northwestern and Wisconsin respectively.

Each week, a pair of teams would get a "bye" on a Thursday and play their travel partner on Saturday.  And then when the first half of the season was done, they redid the entire thing in reverse but just changing the home and away.

But as I said, I think they went away from that awhile ago.

However the P12 still does this.  Kind of...  Look at UCLA's schedule from last year.

http://www.uclabruins.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=30500&SPID=126928&SPSID=749889&DB_OEM_ID=30500

The only thing different is that they don't reverse the schedule in the second half...they actually just repeat it.  And they don't play every team twice....they went to Utah and Colorado and didn't get them at home.  But they didn't have to go to Oregon.

[The Equalizer]

I said it makes some sense to play them the last game, because we play them the first. That is coming form my impression of Big 10 schedule that often seems to play the second half of the schedule in reverse order. It is not a compelling reason, but the first game will be a hyped for the opening day matchups, so it would make sense to have it a hyped last day match up. During the first game the announcers will talk about how MU and Creighton are the preseason favorites to win the league and they will point to the final game as the possibly deciding the championship all with the idea of hyping the last day.

I completely agree it makes sense late in the season because they are two of the likely contenders for the championship.  

I just don't see where the fact that we played them first has anything to do with it.   We have no history of starting and ending with the same team.

If we had played DePaul first, I'd still say an MU/Creighton matchup would be better end of season game--becuase those two teams are expected to be contenders. The fact that MU started against DePaul wouldn't have factored into the thinking at all.

 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Based on history, knowing that we start with Creighton, it would probably make more sense that we don't end with them as the last game.

Unless the conference thinks those are the two best teams and trying to setup a big first game splash for the conference and also the last conference game as a potential very big game to clinch the championship.

[PaintTouches]

Looks like the Big East won't make the "rivalry game" permanent, and will have the flexibility to change the final game up every year:

New Big East media relations chief John Paquette has clarified to VUhoops that the end-of-season rivalry games will change from year-to-year. So, even if Villanova closes the 2013-14 season with Seton Hall this year, they could be scheduled for Georgetown next season.

"[T]hat does not mean every team will have one rival -- or the same rival -- on the last day of the season," Paquette explained.

In effect, the Big East has only decided to make the last day of the regular season a rivalry for each school. Which rival a school will play, however, can change on a yearly basis.

http://www.vuhoops.com/2013/8/28/4667568/big-east-to-release-hoops-schedule-next-week?utm_source=buffer&utm_campaign=Buffer&utm_content=buffer780dc&utm_medium=twitter

[Newsdreams]

Think for a moment about why those two teams are rivals:  WIth Notre Dame, its because Marquette was the 2nd choice for a lot of MU students.  When ND turned them down, it made for instant hatred. 

Hated ND way before applying to MU. Never applied to ND. Hated ND even more once attending MU. Hatred became even bigger first road trip to ND to see MU vs. ND. Hate, Hate, Hate!! 

[raul]

Depaul is not in the same league as MU. Gtown Butler and Creighton will be tough opponents. Butler lost their coach and they may fall back a bit. Creighton is up and comming but Gtown is a national name. My guess is MU vs Gtown for a national  rivalry in the new Beast.

[WarriorFan]

This is not a thread about who we think our rival is. It is a thread about the Big East making the last day of the schedule being rivalry week for all the conference teams. That means our rival on that date is determined by them and they have to take into account 5 games. It seems obvious to me that location of schools will play into the decision, so I expect MU, DePaul, Butler and Creighton will make up two of the games. I guessing it is Butler vs DePaul and Creighton vs MU, but we could be matched with any of those three teams. I put Xavier with Villanova, because they are the middle schools geographically wise. Leaving 4 east cost schools, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall and Georgetown. I figured no one cares about Seton hall and Providence, so I put them together leaving a St. John's/Georgetown match up. I am not sure but, unless there is a change in the conference, whatever these games are this year will always be the end of the conference season games in future seasons, except the home/away team will alternate. Given that we will play every team twice, this is just a marketing ploy by Big East to promote the last game of the season.

On this basis I wouldn't mind getting paired up with DePaul in the last week of the regular season... at least for the next few years until they come back.
We should be able to make away games at DePaul like "extra home games".  Kinda like when the Packers play the Vikings.

[bilsu]

Looks like the Big East won't make the "rivalry game" permanent, and will have the flexibility to change the final game up every year:
http://www.vuhoops.com/2013/8/28/4667568/big-east-to-release-hoops-schedule-next-week?utm_source=buffer&utm_campaign=Buffer&utm_content=buffer780dc&utm_medium=twitter

That makes sense, but than they should not call it rivalry week.

[Archies Bat]

College Basketball Talk picked up the Paint Touches story and added their own take.


http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/31/marquette-searches-for-a-rival-in-new-big-east/

[slingkong]

Think for a moment about why those two teams are rivals:  WIth Notre Dame, its because Marquette was the 2nd choice for a lot of MU students.  When ND turned them down, it made for instant hatred.

Not that it doesn't happen, but I don't know anyone to whom this applies. Is it really very common?

[Skatastrophy]

Not that it doesn't happen, but I don't know anyone to whom this applies. Is it really very common?

Not with anyone that I know. I think that the type of people applying to urban vs suburban universities are two separate groups.

[GGGG]

Not with anyone that I know. I think that the type of people applying to urban vs suburban universities are two separate groups.

In going back through my friends at MU, out of the 20 or so that I was closest to, not a single one of them applied to Notre Dame and was denied.  Now that is an obviously small sample size.

MU would likely know at least part of the answer to this.  For students who use the common application, they would know how many applied to both schools.

[tower912]

Hated ND way before applying to MU. Never applied to ND. Hated ND even more once attending MU. Hatred became even bigger first road trip to ND to see MU vs. ND. Hate, Hate, Hate!!  

I applied to and was accepted by both Michigan and ND.    Both campus visits were lead by arrogant d-bags and I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt I wanted to go to MU instead.    Have had little but contempt for either school ever since.   Our 'rival' will be the team that is closest to defeating MU for the season title, or the team MU has to beat to take the conference. 

[Galway Eagle]

I think seton hall or providence not because we have any tradition with them, are the same type of catholic, are particularly competitive with them but because I figure somoene needed to go for the long shot

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I applied to and was accepted by both Michigan and ND.    Both campus visits were lead by arrogant d-bags and I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt I wanted to go to MU instead.    Have had little but contempt for either school ever since.   Our 'rival' will be the team that is closest to defeating MU for the season title, or the team MU has to beat to take the conference. 

I was wait-listed by ND.  But my campus visit was exactly as Tower912 said.  I recall my parents being very annoyed and unhappy after the visit and were discouraging me to go there well before I even knew I was accepted or rejected (or somewhere in-between).

[Coleman]

I think seton hall or providence not because we have any tradition with them, are the same type of catholic, are particularly competitive with them but because I figure somoene needed to go for the long shot

Seton Hall is not affiliated with a religious order, and Providence is Dominican. Besides Butler, we have probably the least in common with them from a religious-institution perspective.

The obvious matches are the midwest Jesuit schools: Xavier and Creighton

[Archies Bat]

Seton Hall is not affiliated with a religious order, and Providence is Dominican. Besides Butler, we have probably the least in common with them from a religious-institution perspective.

The obvious matches are the midwest Jesuit schools: Xavier and Creighton

Not sure your definition of an order, but below is from Seton Hall Website:

Seton Hall University is a major Catholic university. In a diverse and collaborative environment it focuses on academic and ethical development. Seton Hall students are prepared to be leaders in their professional and community lives in a global society and are challenged by outstanding faculty, an evolving technologically advanced setting and values-centered curricula

[MU82]

Depaul is not in the same league as MU.

Of course not. Not now, anyway.

As recently as 2000, DePaul could have successfully argued that Marquette was not in the same league as they were. That certainly was the case for pretty much all of the '80s.

Everything in sports is cyclical. Those of us who lived through the Majerus, Dukiet, early O'Neill, Deane and early Crean regimes will attest that Marquette wasn't in the same league as most good programs for quite a long stretch.

All DePaul needs is a great coach and proper university support and they can be good again.

And no, I have absolutely no connection to DePaul. I just understand the cyclical nature of sports.

[Coleman]

Not sure your definition of an order, but below is from Seton Hall Website:

Seton Hall University is a major Catholic university. In a diverse and collaborative environment it focuses on academic and ethical development. Seton Hall students are prepared to be leaders in their professional and community lives in a global society and are challenged by outstanding faculty, an evolving technologically advanced setting and values-centered curricula

My definition of an order: Jesuit (MU, Xavier, Creighton, Georgetown), Dominican (Providence), Vincentian (DePaul), etc. etc. etc.

Seton Hall is diocesan Catholic, e.g. not affiliated with a religious order. I know most people probably don't know or care about the distinction, but if you are making the case our rival should be someone in our conference who is most like us, other than Butler, Seton Hall is probably last on that list.