Calls for NCAA Split Getting Louder

[Aughnanure]

Saw this yesterday but forgot to post. Interesting, especially after Slive's choice words for the NCAA. Division 4 possible?

As long as it's just football, can't say I;m against it. Heck basketball needs to be cut down from 360+ to under 200.
"Not every sport will be segregated, just football, where there's more money at stake for the teams at the top."

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9499740/is-college-football-big-five-conferences-split-ncaa

Is it time for football powers to split?

Same NCAA rules can no longer govern both big and small athletic departments

DALLAS -- College football's big boys aren't ready to break up the NCAA and raze its stately compound in downtown Indianapolis.

But if the sport's heavyweights don't start getting some cooperation from the rest of the NCAA's member schools -- i.e., athletic departments with smaller checkbooks, fewer national championships and less tradition -- the idea might not sound so preposterous in the very near future.

And who can blame them?

It's like your neighborhood ballpark concession stand having as much say as McDonald's in the regulation of the fast-food industry.

It doesn't make sense.

Under the current NCAA structure, fledgling FBS programs like Georgia State, Massachusetts, Old Dominion, South Alabama and Texas-San Antonio have as much power as traditional heavyweights like Alabama, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Texas and USC. Heck, every FCS, Division II and Division III football program -- and even the NCAA member institutions that don't even field football teams (hello, Albertus Magnus and Oswego State!) -- carry as much weight in making important decisions about football as the sport's power brokers.

Under current NCAA rules, it's one vote for every school. And you don't even have to play football to decide whether an FBS team should have 85 or 100 football scholarships or whether the value of a scholarship should go beyond room, board, books and tuition.

College football's socialism is why it's about to become the "big five" against everybody else.

College football is setting the stage for the final season of the controversial Bowl Championship Series and a forthcoming four-team playoff that will crown the sport's national champion starting in 2014. But the future of the NCAA and how major college football is structured seems more fragile than ever.

In fact, what once seemed like an idle threat now seems like a very plausible scenario: Schools in the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and SEC might break away from the rest of the FBS leagues and form their own federation within the current NCAA structure. Such a move would allow the schools and their conferences to write and approve their own rules, such as increasing the value of scholarships to meet the full cost of attendance, reforming recruiting rules and overhauling the way they investigate and punish rule breakers.

Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby, a former athletic director at Stanford, Iowa and Northern Iowa, delivered perhaps the most damaging criticism yet of the NCAA during his opening address at Big 12 media days on Monday morning.

"I think we all have a sense that transformative change needs to happen," Bowlsby said. "I don't know that we can keep doing what we're doing. It's bad grammar but a good concept: If we always do what we've always done, we'll always get what we've always got. That's kind of where we are right now."

It's exactly where the NCAA has been for much of the past two decades, which is why college athletics' most influential figures are starting to proclaim their displeasure loud and clear.

At nearly the same time Bowlsby was firing away at the NCAA on Monday, ACC commissioner John Swofford told USA Today that the next six months are "very important" to the future of the NCAA and suggested that drastic changes might be made at the NCAA's annual convention in January.

Last week, SEC commissioner Mike Slive echoed Bowlsby's comments at SEC media days: "We have supported and will continue to support the NCAA as the appropriate governing organization for intercollegiate athletics, but at the same time, however, we will continue to push for changes we believe are in the best interest of our student-athletes."

Expect Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany and Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott to make similar remarks at their respective leagues' preseason gatherings later this week.

Bowlsby said commissioners of the big five conferences met about six weeks ago to discuss their concerns. Bowlsby said the commissioners were "unanimous" in their desires for drastic changes to the NCAA structure and said he wasn't "out on a limb" with his scathing remarks on Monday.

"Some of it's the inability to do anything, but Pogo was right: We've met the enemy, and he's us," Bowlsby said. "We all have to take responsibility."

Bowlsby said none of the conference commissioners have suggested entirely breaking away from the NCAA, at least not yet.

"I don't see secession from the NCAA as a viable leverage point, except as a last resort," Bowlsby said.

This much is clear: The NCAA needs the big five more than the big five needs the NCAA. The NCAA offers very little in the day-to-day operations of college football. The FBS leagues do their own scheduling and stage their own conference championship games, and bowl committees (and the BCS until 2014) handle the postseason. Unlike Division I men's and women's basketball, and FCS, Division II and Division III football, the NCAA doesn't crown a national champion in FBS football.

In major college football, at least, the NCAA's primary role is to legislate rules approved by its member institutions and enforce them. If you've read the NCAA rulebook or paid attention to recent infractions cases at Ohio State, Miami and Penn State, it can certainly be argued that other entities might be better equipped to do it.

Although Bowlsby said the commissioners' recent comments were not an orchestrated effort to increase pressure on the embattled NCAA, it's clear that five of the most powerful men in college athletics are at the end of their ropes with the bloated bureaucracy. Bowlsby described the NCAA's current legislative process as "gridlock" and said it's impossible to address the needs of every NCAA member institution because they're so diverse.

"Look at Division I. There are programs that have $3 million budgets and programs that have $160 million budgets," Bowlsby said. "How do you begin to try and do things that are good for one and also good for the other? Is there a segregation of some sort based upon their tax bracket? Probably. But I don't know how you go about solving problems without getting like-minded people together and coming up with some solutions."

Bowlsby is right. The only way schools like Alabama, Ohio State, Southern Cal and Texas can address their needs is to break away from the Central Michigans and Utah States of the college football world. Every time legislation is proposed that might increase spending, the schools that can't afford it vote it down. And there are a lot more college athletics departments in the red when it comes to sports budgets.

"Why are we where we are?" Bowlsby asked. "It's hard to say. I guess it's the cumulative effect of a long period of time, but I think what we've done essentially is we have tried to accomplish competitive equity through rules and legislative changes, and it's probably not possible to do that. I think we've permitted or even sometimes encouraged institutional social climbing by virtue of their athletics programs, and I think the fact is we've made it too easy to get into Division I and too easy to stay there."

The harsh reality is that most of the schools from non-BCS leagues like the American Athletic Conference, Conference USA, Mid-American Conference, Mountain West and Sun Belt Conference don't have the financial resources to compete with the sport's heavyweights. Heck, many of the schools in the big five leagues don't even have the means to compete with traditional powers like Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Michigan and Oklahoma, but at least they have a fighting chance every season.

Obviously, a segregation of college football would have dire effects on teams that aren't part of the big five conferences. Nearly as many programs outside the big five (more than 60 in 2014) as in them (64 in 2014) would be adversely affected by the move. If the big five leagues formed their own federation, would there be another run on conference realignment? Would programs like Boise State, BYU and Cincinnati scramble for new homes so they wouldn't get left behind?

"Some of the things that would likely happen under some sort of process would likely not be favorable for mid-majors like Northern Iowa," Bowlsby said. "What if scheduling changes where the FBS guys aren't playing FCS schools? That's a profound impact on those guys. I know that perspective and understand it. But I don't know how to get my arms around it from a standpoint of being able to make change because Northern Iowa and Texas aren't much alike."

Not every sport will be segregated, just football, where there's more money at stake for the teams at the top.

"It's probably unrealistic to think that we can manage football and field hockey by the same set of rules," Bowlsby said.

Only the current NCAA structure believes that can happen.

[ChicosBailBonds]

As long as it doesn't mess with hoops, have at it. 

[Aughnanure]

As long as it doesn't mess with hoops, have at it. 

Hell it'd be great if college basketball cut the number of schools down to at least 250.

[boyonthedock]

Hell it'd be great if college basketball cut the number of schools down to at least 250.

For Marquette, it would really be functionally the same, unless it provides more at large bids by cutting out conferences to get down that low. Its not like MU will have trouble finding crap teams to play a half dozen or so buy games against.

[Skatastrophy]

As long as it doesn't mess with hoops, have at it. 

+1, I don't care about football.

[Aughnanure]

For Marquette, it would really be functionally the same, unless it provides more at large bids by cutting out conferences to get down that low. Its not like MU will have trouble finding crap teams to play a half dozen or so buy games against.

More NCAA money.

[GooooMarquette]

Yep.  If they're talking about cutting hoops down only to schools that can compete (the article says "less than 200"), MU will be fine.

[mu03eng]

For Marquette, it would really be functionally the same, unless it provides more at large bids by cutting out conferences to get down that low. Its not like MU will have trouble finding crap teams to play a half dozen or so buy games against.

Also means a deeper talent pool, deeper benches, potentially for all teams.  Also means fewer opportunities for actual student athletes since the teams that would be cut are likely to be the ones where the education actually mattered a great deal.

[brandx]

So can we all take it with a grain of salt the next time the school presidents say that their primary mission is all about the student-athletes.

I've seen corporate raiders that don't chase the almighty dollar like these guys do.

[GGGG]

Also means a deeper talent pool, deeper benches, potentially for all teams.  Also means fewer opportunities for actual student athletes since the teams that would be cut are likely to be the ones where the education actually mattered a great deal.

If you look at the 250-347 RPI teams, you find many directional schools and a bunch of HBCUs.  I bet the academic profile of the top 250 way exceeds those schools.

[GGGG]

So can we all take it with a grain of salt the next time the school presidents say that their primary mission is all about the student-athletes.

If you still believed that up until now...well...

[NCMUFan]

Guess its to further solidify the elite athletic talent pool to a fewer number of schools hence increasing the odds of dominating.  Make sure the smaller programs stay small.  Is life much different in other aspects?

[brewcity77]

I think anyone believing they'd actually stop at football is a bit deluded. They will start there, but once all the money is in the pockets of the Big Five, they'll wonder why they are sharing in other sports.

Further, football is what brings in revenue for many of these smaller schools to fund their other athletics, just as basketball does at MU. Take away their status as a top level competitor and they will likely lose donors and have to slash revenue, which will almost certainly mean the demise of many sports, and in the Title IX era, it's hard to imagine football not being the first to go.

I think this mindset is pathetic. The duty of these schools is to provide education. I realize sports are a profitable distraction, but they are still not the primary focus. Yet it's clear that greed at the top has these schools caring more about the dollars they scrape from a bowl game and NCAA credits than the good of any of the students involved. This move is designed not just to separate the haves from the have-nots, bit to destroy the entire landscape of college athletics as we know it.

Just football my ass.

[DFW HOYA]

Hell it'd be great if college basketball cut the number of schools down to at least 250.

Division IV would be happy to cut the number to 60. There is no sentimentality to include the Big East, AAC, etc. in a basketball tournament if they don't have to.

Best case scenario: Basketball not affected, though there would be subtle and not so subtle pressure to drive more at-large bids to the upper tier.

Worst case scenario: Everyone below the top five conferences are relegated to the NIT.

[mu03eng]

If you look at the 250-347 RPI teams, you find many directional schools and a bunch of HBCUs.  I bet the academic profile of the top 250 way exceeds those schools.

There is a difference between academic profile and a player that actually needs an education.  I'm saying if you are going to a directional school for sports you aren't making the league so you are actually using it to get an education that you will use after college.  Eliminating those teams will eliminate those opportunities for those players not to mention the opportunities for the deep bench players in the top 250 who wouldn't get a spot on the bench as a result.

[MUMonster03]

I have been an advocate of letting football become separate from the rest of college sports for a while now. That way basketball becomes the premier sport sponsored by the NCAA and the conferences get stability. The NCAA does not even award a National Championship for the FBS level, it is given out by the AP. The NCAA only names a national champion in FCS, Div II and III.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I thought I had read that outside of the BCS most schools loose money on football.

Further, football is what brings in revenue for many of these smaller schools to fund their other athletics, just as basketball does at MU. Take away their status as a top level competitor and they will likely lose donors and have to slash revenue, which will almost certainly mean the demise of many sports, and in the Title IX era, it's hard to imagine football not being the first to go.

[Aughnanure]

I think anyone believing they'd actually stop at football is a bit deluded. They will start there, but once all the money is in the pockets of the Big Five, they'll wonder why they are sharing in other sports.

Further, football is what brings in revenue for many of these smaller schools to fund their other athletics, just as basketball does at MU. Take away their status as a top level competitor and they will likely lose donors and have to slash revenue, which will almost certainly mean the demise of many sports, and in the Title IX era, it's hard to imagine football not being the first to go.

I think this mindset is pathetic. The duty of these schools is to provide education. I realize sports are a profitable distraction, but they are still not the primary focus. Yet it's clear that greed at the top has these schools caring more about the dollars they scrape from a bowl game and NCAA credits than the good of any of the students involved. This move is designed not just to separate the haves from the have-nots, bit to destroy the entire landscape of college athletics as we know it.

Just football my ass.

While I get the fear, I think they will have a hard enough time as it is splitting away in just football. And don't forget, college football already exists outside of the NCAA championship sanctions.

No way will they be able to split with just schools from the current Big 5. BYU isn't getting let out. You think Idaho senators are going to allow Boise St to just be eliminated? What about senators from Florida with UCF and USF in their backyard? What about  those from New Mexico? They're going to have a very hard time politically to keep this under 80.

As for the other sports, you think these football-first schools have any interest in regulating and administrating water polo and gymnastics? No, they want their cake and to eat it too. Controlling how football runs and not getting their hands messy with running Olympic sports is their goal.

[Aughnanure]

I have been an advocate of letting football become separate from the rest of college sports for a while now. That way basketball becomes the premier sport sponsored by the NCAA and the conferences get stability. The NCAA does not even award a National Championship for the FBS level, it is given out by the AP. The NCAA only names a national champion in FCS, Div II and III.

Where have you been? That hasn't happened since 1997. The AP poll isn't even included in the BCS formula anymore because they had disagreements.

[MUMonster03]

Where have you been? That hasn't happened since 1997. The AP poll isn't even included in the BCS formula anymore because they had disagreements.

Well I may have misspoke but the point is THE NCAA DOES NOT GIVE OUT A FBS CHAMPIONSHIP. So next time READ before shooting your mouth off on something that isn't the main point.

The FBS is the only sport sponsored by the NCAA that doesn't include an NCAA sanctioned championship event. That is why you have the crystal football instead of the standard championship trophy that every other sport gets.

[Aughnanure]

Well I may have misspoke but the point is THE NCAA DOES NOT GIVE OUT A FBS CHAMPIONSHIP. So next time READ before shooting your mouth off on something that isn't the main point.

The FBS is the only sport sponsored by the NCAA that doesn't include an NCAA sanctioned championship event. That is why you have the crystal football instead of the standard championship trophy that every other sport gets.

Duh. Pointing out that you misspoke, in your words, is not the same as missing your point.

[Brewtown Andy]

And to think, this all could have been avoided if the NCAA had put in a football playoff over 100 years ago like they did with every single other sport.

[brewcity77]

No way will they be able to split with just schools from the current Big 5. BYU isn't getting let out. You think Idaho senators are going to allow Boise St to just be eliminated? What about senators from Florida with UCF and USF in their backyard? What about  those from New Mexico? They're going to have a very hard time politically to keep this under 80.

I'll believe these guys will get involved when they start. I've seen nothing serious that congress is going to take any action regarding college sports. I think they are shying away from getting involved in any sports because they spent a ton of money and effort on the steroid scandal and came away pretty much empty handed.

[Aughnanure]

I'll believe these guys will get involved when they start. I've seen nothing serious that congress is going to take any action regarding college sports. I think they are shying away from getting involved in any sports because they spent a ton of money and effort on the steroid scandal and came away pretty much empty handed.

Well, they already have. They had BCS anti-trust hearings in 2009 and many called for them to get  involved in conference realignment in 2011 - and they did! Mitch McConnell most notably was very involved in trying to get Louisville in the Big XII.

At some point, this becomes an economic issue for these states. This impacts alumni spirit, events, tourism, sales, businesses, name notoriety, community, etc. It hits home in a big big big way and you better be damn sure Senators and Reps are going to take that seriously. The big schools are essentially threatening other state schools. But threats work both ways.

One last point unrelated to this is the fact that if the Big 5 or whatever want to split it can ONLY be for football. I've heard some radio sports talk saying they're going to take everything, and may eventually even pair it down further to 32 or 24. First off, that's dumb and second it's impossible. The SEC and Big XII don't even play men's soccer! There simply wouldn't be enough programs to operate the amount of college sports needed to push the NCAA out. They can get away with football because that's kind of already outside the NCAA, but baseball? basketball? soccer? volleyball?  lacrosse? Fat chance.

[brewcity77]

I thought I had read that outside of the BCS most schools loose money on football.

Operating at a loss doesn't mean that isn't still what brings in the bulk of their donor dollars. Turn their football into an effective second division sport and I imagine their losses will likely increase.