Aaron Hernandez arrested for murder, released by Patriots

[Tugg Speedman]

I'm not sure whether I agree with your basic point or not, but I do think it's worth keeping in mind that 99% of their players are not getting into trouble.  Also, of those 27 arrests, it appears that about 18 of them are non-violent offenses.  So...perhaps you could tone down the hyperbole a bit.

The off-season is not over ... and Hernandez is even the only NFL player arrested on murder or attempted murder charges this week!  Auscar Walcott, cut by the Browns on May 13, was arrested the day before on attempted murder charges in Northern New Jersey.

[StillAWarrior]

The off-season is not over ... and Hernandez is even the only NFL player arrested on murder or attempted murder charges this week!  Auscar Walcott, cut by the Browns on May 13, was arrested the day before on attempted murder charges in Northern New Jersey.

I don't dispute that, at all.  In fact, simple reading comprehension clearly reveals that my statement that 18 of the arrests were for non-violent offenses, implies that 9 of the arrests were for violent offenses.

It's just the ""their players are thugs and animals and when they are not attacking each other on the field, they are attacking the public at large in the street..." is a bit over the top.  Unless, of course, you're comfortable using general words like "they" (as opposed to "some of them") to refer to a very small minority (albeit an arguably statistically significant minority).

It's certainly dramatic, I'll give you that.  And since that's what you were going for, you're probably good with it.

[Tugg Speedman]

I don't dispute that, at all.  In fact, simple reading comprehension clearly reveals that my statement that 18 of the arrests were for non-violent offenses, implies that 9 of the arrests were for violent offenses.

It's just the ""their players are thugs and animals and when they are not attacking each other on the field, they are attacking the public at large in the street..." is a bit over the top.  Unless, of course, you're comfortable using general words like "they" (as opposed to "some of them") to refer to a very small minority (albeit an arguably statistically significant minority).

It's certainly dramatic, I'll give you that.  And since that's what you were going for, you're probably good with it.

Like I said before, go look at the arrest records of adult males than make over $500k/year (or $1 million/year) and compare it to the NFL (a sub-group of adult males that also make over $500k/year).  The NFL is not a reflection of societies problems, they are far worse.  So the "they" seems appropriate.

And yes, I was going for the dramatic with my statements above, glad you noticed.

[MerrittsMustache]

Like I said before, go look at the arrest records of adult makes than make over $500k/year (or $1 million/year) and compare it to the NFL (a sub-group of adult makes than also make over $500k/year).  The NFL is not a reflection of societies problems, they are far worse.  So the "they" seem appropriate.

And yes, I was going for the dramatic with my statements above, glad you noticed.

What about the arrest records of adult males who make over $500k/year and are between the ages of 21-30?

[StillAWarrior]

Like I said before, go look at the arrest records of adult males than make over $500k/year (or $1 million/year) and compare it to the NFL (a sub-group of adult males that also make over $500k/year).  The NFL is not a reflection of societies problems, they are far worse.  So the "they" seems appropriate.

And yes, I was going for the dramatic with my statements above, glad you noticed.

Noted.  Drama over accuracy.

[Tugg Speedman]

Noted.  Drama over accuracy.

Dramatically explaining accurate facts.

[StillAWarrior]

Dramatically explaining accurate facts.

No, you're not.  When 1/3 of one percent of a group (i.e., .33% or .0033) has been arrested for violent acts, a statement that the entire group is  thugs and animals that are attacking the public on the street is not accurate.  Dramatic?  Sure.  And, as you've admitted, that's what you were going for.  Well done.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

Double murder.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/06/27/report-aaron-hernandez-under-investigation-in-2012-boston-double-murder/

[Tugg Speedman]

No, you're not.  When 1/3 of one percent of a group (i.e., .33% or .0033) has been arrested for violent acts, a statement that the entire group is  thugs and animals that are attacking the public on the street is not accurate.  Dramatic?  Sure.  And, as you've admitted, that's what you were going for.  Well done.

Calling NFL players Thugs and Animals is inaccurate?

[StillAWarrior]

Calling NFL players Thugs and Animals is inaccurate?

Yes.  As a group?  Definitely.  I can think of far more who do not fit that description than who do.

I assume you're comfortable calling Buzz's recruits rapists?  (I'm not, but dramatic overstatement seems to be your thing today.)  Under your theory, "they" are, you know...thugs and animals...when they're not playing basketball, they're raping women. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Calling NFL players Thugs and Animals is inaccurate?

Too broad a brush.  We work with many of these athletes and they are terrific people.  Aikman, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, etc, etc.  Some solid people.  No question some are not or make poor choices. 

[Pakuni]

What about the arrest records of adult males who make over $500k/year and are between the ages of 21-30?

Wait, are you suggesting that NFL players aren't a good demographic match with CEOs in their 50s?
But, but, but .... they both make lots of money!
Factors like age, education, environment, socio-economic background are so, like, totally overrated.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Too broad a brush.  We work with many of these athletes and they are terrific people.  Aikman, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, etc, etc.  Some solid people.  No question some are not or make poor choices. 

Couldn't you have at least thrown one non-traditional in there?   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Couldn't you have at least thrown one non-traditional in there?   

Why do you guys keep using traditional in the form of a race comment?  Why is race always on some of your minds?  Race consumes way too many people and invariably drives some people to look for something (a slight, or whatever) that isn't there.  I don't get it.  That's not what I said years ago when I said traditional on this board and even included Wes Matthews as one my examples.  Funny how things take off and run around here.


To address your point, we work with NFL athletes across the spectrum over the years.  Deion Sanders, Mannings, Emmit Smith, Aikman, Darren Woodson....we never look at race.  We look at marketability, Q scores, if there are any background issues (Michael Vick was not going to be one of our spokespersons but neither was Ryan Leaf), etc. 

[Pakuni]

To address your point, we work with NFL athletes across the spectrum over the years.  Deion Sanders, Mannings, Emmit Smith, Aikman, Darren Woodson....we never look at race.  We look at marketability, Q scores, if there are any background issues (Michael Vick was not going to be one of our spokespersons but neither was Ryan Leaf), etc. 

I think people raise the "traditional" label to poke fun, Chico's, not because they think you are, or they themselves are, obsessed with race.

That said, it's odd to suggest that "we never look at race," but then discuss marketability, Q scores, etc., as if race isn't a factor in those.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Why do you guys keep using traditional in the form of a race comment?  Why is race always on some of your minds?  Race consumes way too many people and invariably drives some people to look for something (a slight, or whatever) that isn't there.  I don't get it.  That's not what I said years ago when I said traditional on this board and even included Wes Matthews as one my examples.  Funny how things take off and run around here.

To address your point, we work with NFL athletes across the spectrum over the years.  Deion Sanders, Mannings, Emmit Smith, Aikman, Darren Woodson....we never look at race.  We look at marketability, Q scores, if there are any background issues (Michael Vick was not going to be one of our spokespersons but neither was Ryan Leaf), etc. 

I am poking fun at you.  no offense.

[martyconlonontherun]

Wait, are you suggesting that NFL players aren't a good demographic match with CEOs in their 50s?
But, but, but .... they both make lots of money!
Factors like age, education, environment, socio-economic background are so, like, totally overrated.

I think that's what I was getting at earlier. I would think born into a high-income class with better education is very different than being poor in bad areas with friends from bad areas who suddenly have millions of dollars.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

Why do you guys keep using traditional in the form of a race comment?  Why is race always on some of your minds?  Race consumes way too many people and invariably drives some people to look for something (a slight, or whatever) that isn't there.  I don't get it.  That's not what I said years ago when I said traditional on this board and even included Wes Matthews as one my examples.  Funny how things take off and run around here.


To address your point, we work with NFL athletes across the spectrum over the years.  Deion Sanders, Mannings, Emmit Smith, Aikman, Darren Woodson....we never look at race.  We look at marketability, Q scores, if there are any background issues (Michael Vick was not going to be one of our spokespersons but neither was Ryan Leaf), etc. 

Agree 100%.....met Drew Brees and Marques Colston in the middle of May this year on Bourbon Street at a bar at 2 in the afternoon.....both of them the nicest guys in the world.

[Otule's Glass Eye]

Hernandez now also being investigated for possible involvement in a triple shooting, with two being killed, in July of last year.

[Tugg Speedman]

I think that's what I was getting at earlier. I would think born into a high-income class with better education is very different than being poor in bad areas with friends from bad areas who suddenly have millions of dollars.

So all those that excuse crime in poor areas because it comes from a lack of money and opportunity are wrong?  Are you saying the rate of crime is a cultural thing?  That many of these players come from a culture that finds violent crime acceptable? 

If that is what you're saying, I agree.  And that is why the NFL has a big problem.  Too many of their players think violent crime is acceptable and no amount of money changes that view.

Restated in a simple form ... the NFL is full of thugs and animals.

[Tugg Speedman]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/patriots-conduct-aaron-hernandez-jersey-exchange-july-6-193511953.html

By Brian McIntyre | Shutdown Corner – Fri, Jun 28, 2013 3:35 PM EDT


Shortly after parting ways with tight end Aaron Hernandez on Wednesday, the New England Patriots stopped offering his No. 81 jersey for sale on their website as well as their team store at Gillette Stadium.

On Friday, the Patriots announced that fans who have purchased a No. 81 jersey — from either Reebok or Nike — from the team's store or through the team's website will have a two-day window to exchange the jersey for a new, in-stock Patriots jersey of comparable value.

"We know that children love wearing their Patriots jerseys, but may not understand why parents don’t want them wearing their Hernandez jerseys anymore," said Patriots spokesperson Stacey James. "We hope this opportunity to exchange those jerseys at the Patriots ProShop for another player’s jersey will be well received by parents."

The free jersey exchange will be available exclusively at the Patriots ProShop from 10 a.m. to 9 p.m. ET on Saturday, July 6 and from 10 a.m. to 7 p.m. ET on Sunday, July 7.

Many have applauded the team's decision to release Hernandez, a move that potentially hinders their attempt to recoup the $12.5 million signing bonus Hernandez received from the team last August. Surely many more, including parents who have recently purchased a No. 81 jersey for their child, will applaud the team's decision to replace those jerseys. The praise is deserved as the Patriots continue to show through their actions that there are more important things than their own bottom line.

[keefe]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/aaron-hernandez-first-degree-murder-gun-charges--bill-belichick-robert-kraft-should-have-known-better-062613

Jason Whitlock says Kraft and Belichick culpable

[Tugg Speedman]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/aaron-hernandez-first-degree-murder-gun-charges--bill-belichick-robert-kraft-should-have-known-better-062613

Jason Whitlock says Kraft and Belichick culpable

I normally disagree with Whitlock but this time he is largely correct.  From the article:

The Baltimore Ravens stood by Ray Lewis when he was charged with murder and eventually pled guilty to obstruction of justice. OK, Lewis is one of the greatest players in NFL history. Hernandez isn’t on Ray’s level.

But the Patriots’ quick surrender is enlightening. This is professional football. Jerry Jones has employed a team of babysitters to keep Dez Bryant out of trouble. Josh Brent was on the Cowboys’ sideline shortly after his drunken driving killed a teammate. The Kansas City Chiefs honored Jovan Belcher by hanging his jersey in his undisturbed locker 36 hours after Belcher murdered his girlfriend/baby’s mama and killed himself in front of the team’s general manager, head coach and defensive coordinator.

Football has a high threshold for tolerating and rationalizing depravity and violence.

Typical year for the NFL, four murders plus a dead teammate and suicide.  How much more carnage will occur before training camp opens?

[forgetful]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/aaron-hernandez-first-degree-murder-gun-charges--bill-belichick-robert-kraft-should-have-known-better-062613

Jason Whitlock says Kraft and Belichick culpable

Interesting that some would say that Kraft and Belichick are culpable and that the NFL culture is broken.  Yet in big business CEO's are paid millions to be as shady as possible (provided they don't get caught) to ensure success of their business.  That includes, Fraud, theft....and it is all ok, because it is all part of the accepted culture.  At least the NFL players eventually go to jail for their crimes.

[GGGG]

I normally disagree with Whitlock but this time he is largely correct.  From the article:

The Baltimore Ravens stood by Ray Lewis when he was charged with murder and eventually pled guilty to obstruction of justice. OK, Lewis is one of the greatest players in NFL history. Hernandez isn’t on Ray’s level.

But the Patriots’ quick surrender is enlightening. This is professional football. Jerry Jones has employed a team of babysitters to keep Dez Bryant out of trouble. Josh Brent was on the Cowboys’ sideline shortly after his drunken driving killed a teammate. The Kansas City Chiefs honored Jovan Belcher by hanging his jersey in his undisturbed locker 36 hours after Belcher murdered his girlfriend/baby’s mama and killed himself in front of the team’s general manager, head coach and defensive coordinator.

Football has a high threshold for tolerating and rationalizing depravity and violence.

Typical year for the NFL, four murders plus a dead teammate and suicide.  How much more carnage will occur before training camp opens?

You sound gleeful.