Katz on coaches who never played ball

[Marquette84]

ecompt----I talk to people about the practices.

You talk about injuries -----everyteam has injuries----have to have someone ready to replace guys that can't go. Last year we had Kinsella, Cubilan, and Fitz step up and ..who more than made up for the loss of McNeal. Remember that with McNeal we had lost 4 of 5 games immediately before he went down late last year!

Why hide this under the rug-----needs to be talked about as we are going no where until this is corrected.

Furhtermore, I think you're the only one here brushing things under the rug.  I'd love to talk about MU's late season performance in each of the last several years, but you refuse!!  You can only add all the numbers together and talk collectively.  Thats like throwing Al McGuire in with Bob Dukiet and saying that MU just had average coaching.  Sometimes you have to dig a bit deeper.

Let's talk about 2007, with a difference in schedule that has been calculated for us:  105 RPI versus 38.  As long as the league makes the end of the season 3 times more difficult than the start, we'll probably see more losses late in the season.  What is your solution, Murff?  Should we hope that we get all the dogs of the league at the end of the season?  That might cost us some TV games.  Are you all right with that? 

Lets talk about the 2006 season, when the team finsished 4-1 to finish with a first round bye in the Big East tournament.  What is your solution to the problem?  In fact, why do you think that's a problem?  Are you ONLY going to be satisified if MU ends the season on a five game winning streak?  Not even FLORIDA was undefeated in their last five conference games each the last two years. In fact, using your "first loss in Feburary" guide, they were much worse than they were early in their conference play.  17-2 in the first part of the conference season, then just 7-7 in conference play the remainder of the conference season.  So lets have it--you've pointed out the problem--maybe the problme is that 4-1 over the last five games is TOO good.  Perhaps if we only played .500 ball we might win an NCAA championship.  Is that your theory  Let's have at it.



Next, If Kinsella, Cubilan, and Fitz "more than made  up for McNeal" we would have won more games down the stretch.  I don't think any of them come close to being the #1 defensive player in the Big East, therefore we didn't win those games.  It's especially difficult given that the schedule got much tougher, so even if McNeal were playing there's no way to know if we would have won more games against the tougher shcedule..

And, finally, you're wrong on every team having injuries.  I don't think Georgetown had any injuries to one of their top 3 down the stretch.  I don't think Ohio State lost anyone late in the year.  I don't believe FLorida lost anyone.  Sometimes there's a luck factor.  If Ohio State had lost Oden at the end of the year rather than the start, do you think they'd be in the Final Four?  I don't think so.  If FLorida had lost Horford at the start of March, would the rest of the team "more than made up" the differece?   Who knows.  One thing for sure--you're in no position to know if McNeal was effectively replaced, because we didn't play a stretch of games that difficult with McNeal in the lineup.

[jmayer1]

ecompt----I talk to people about the practices.

You talk about injuries -----everyteam has injuries----have to have someone ready to replace guys that can't go. Last year we had Kinsella, Cubilan, and Fitz step up and ..who more than made up for the loss of McNeal. Remember that with McNeal we had lost 4 of 5 games immediately before he went down late last year!

Why hide this under the rug-----needs to be talked about as we are going no where until this is corrected.

I think this has been discussed plenty and you have basically been proven wrong.  Some years MU has finished strong, some years they have finished weak, some years they have basically stayed the same.

Saying those guys more than made up for the loss of McNeal, MU's best all around player, is ridiculous.  Do you think MU is better-off without McNeal?  I sure hope not or you will cause others to question your basketball knowledge; which you have tried to lead us all to believe is vast.

[Murffieus]

Meyer----the only time we have finished strong is 2003 when we had the super star. We were 9-3 that year with the first loss in February-----without that year the situation is even much worse----like 26 wins and 41 losses with that first loss in February.

Then look at postseason play as well----haven't looked recently but recall that in the past 8 years we are something like 10 wins and 13 losses in the postseason.

Also we weren't going anywhere with McNeal last year as we lost 4 of 5 games right before his injury! With McNeal out we finally had some trey shooting----Kinsella, Fitz, and Cubilan picking up the slack---only one guy can handle the ball at a time so you don't need 3 penetrators on the floor at the same time since only one guy can penetrate at a time-----better to have 2 trey shooters on the floor to go with 2 penetrators------also please recall that by February, McNeal's steals were way down while his TOs remained at a high level!

[jmayer1]

Mirf, it is Mayer not Meyer.

We actually finished strong in 1999, 2004, and 2006 as well.  Granted that did not translate into postseason success, but MU definitely finished the regular season strong.  As shown already, your little stat does not mean jack and is convoluted by using the total of all data rather than going through year by year.

Your comment about last year is stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (see, I can use ! as well)
Do you think Crean should kick McNeal off the team this year so that MU will be better, as McNeal definitely drags our team down in your eyes.  Or do you just think the big 3 should never be on the floor together?  Or should Crean put McNeal in the wide post? 

I think Crean tries to coach to his talent rather than forcing his talent into a system (it is debateable how well he does this); a concept you seem unable to grasp.

I guess I have just one simple question for you: Do you think Marquette did not finish strong in 1999, 2004, and 2006?

[Schoolyard]

SJS...typical form by you...ignoring my argument and only attacking the low hanging fruit.  How do you defend TC's nearly perfect record in pre conf tourneys, many against high profile, high powered teams?

I ignored your argument because it's equally false.  You want to be attacked?  Fine--here are the flaws wiich make your argument just as weak as Murffs:

MU had a 12-2 record overall, but only 3 of the 12 were in the RPI top 50 (so much for your argument of  "many high powered, high-profile" games).  MU did win those 3 games against the top 50 (Duke in 07, Indiana and Gonzaga in 02).  But lost two of the 9 others (Oklahoma State, South Alabama).

99:  Hawaii:  Lost to Oklahoma State, Beat Nicholls State
00:  No pre-season tourmament
01:  Lost to South Alabama, 1st game of NIT
02:  Great Alaska Shootout--beat NIT team Tennesse, Gonzaga, Indiana
03:  CVC:  Beat NIT team Villanova
04:  no pre-season tournament
05:  no pre-season tournament
06:  Great Alaska Shootout--beat three marginal teams: South Carolina, EWU, and ORU
07:  Beat two marginal teams--Idaho State and Detroit--and Duke and Texas Tech.


Next, even those wins against those "high powered, high profile" teams arent' really as tough as the teams MU lost to later in the year.  For example,  you can't argue that MU should have beat Louisville, Georgetown and Alabama in late 2006 because they beat EWU, South Carolina and ORU early in the year--especially considering that losses to Winthrop and Nebraska flanked that GAS championship. 

You can't even argue that Duke and Texas Tech in 2007 would top Georgetown, ND, Louisville or Pitt in terms of how impressive the teams played during the year.   

And even at that, you're cherry picking by including only the non-conference tournaments.  Along with the wins over Duke and Texas Tech last season were losses to Wisconsin and North Dakota State.  Don't those losses count?

Along witht the GAS championship in 02 were losses to Wisconsin and Wake Forest.  So even in the non-conference slate, the record was hardly "nearly perfect" as you suggest.

The bottom line is that MU didn't play any worse at the end of the season as they did at the beginning. 

FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SJS, how can I believe one word you write when you blantantly leave out the thrilling BCA Championship (04-05) and the win over St John's in the CvC (03-04)?

[MUDPT]

I wasn't around in 1999, although in the '98-'99 season Deane was still coach.

In 2004, they won some games at the end, but were still an 8? seed in the C-USA tournament.  They then won two NIT games against Toledo and Boise St. at home, before losing at Iowa St..  That's an in betweener.  Two NIT wins is good, but they were at home.

In 2006, they lost their first Big East tournament game and their NCAA tournament game.

I have not attended a Crean practice, but I saw the practice schedule when they were in the Old Gym and it was pretty much the maximum that they could practice.  It didn't really change from months before that.

The problem here and I think we should all agree is that MU has no conference tournament wins since a semi-final win over Houston in 2002.  It is debateable if that is important or not.  And there are no NCAA tournament wins since 2003.  If that is from wearing down or preparation or whatever, it is still a problem and only will be solved when they do win a game.

[bma725]

The problem here and I think we should all agree is that MU has no conference tournament wins since a semi-final win over Houston in 2002. 

They beat St. Johns in the conference tournament last year.

[Murffieus]

Mayer, I don't like the 3 guard offense where none of the three are consistent or quality trey shooters----if one of them is fine----but to have 3 penetrators on the floor at the same time forcing you're #4 to be the trey specialist isn't ordinarily functional-----as the #4 has to also be an interior defender, rebounder, and ideally an inside threat as well----that total package is very difficult to find in a #4 and certinly only fits Fitz insofar as trey shooting is concerned.

Nova had a lot of success with the 3 guard offense a few years back----but 2 of those 3 guards could hit the trey----ditto for Illinois a few years back!

[Pardner]

I enjoy the back and forth actually--good points...to me, we should at least be winning some post season games where we are higher seeds.  Too many early dismissals lately.  I think another factor here not discussed is that the second time around the BE, great coaches adjust their match-ups.  The fact is, late in the season, we haven't matched up very well on our personnel.  When teams are tired and you play a lot of games in a row and on the road, you need a big to help you slog you through a down game.  Getting points on the line gives you a rest as well, and gets you out of a funk.  I think our depth gives TC a lot more flex this year.  If we have an early exit this year, then we can lay the blame on...but I don't expect it. 

In 2003, we beat the teams we matched up well against (Rjax was a huge lift for us).  Kansas was a superior team--whether we lost by 8 or got blown out.  We did not match up well with them, and they took us out of our game early with D.

[MUDPT]

Ah, good point about this year, totally blocked that one out.