10 Most Under Rated Coaches in CBB History

[Goose]

Keefe

100% correct. For whatever reason it is taboo to make honest comments on the Hank era. Not a bad word can be said about the person and that is a rarity in life. That said our recruiting prowess and place in NCAA programs was lost in very quick order. I stick with my comment that it did not break Al's heart to see us fall into a large group of programs. Who knows what happens if someone outside of program was picked, but we do know the history of what did happen.

We were second best program for a decade and one could argue changed college basketball more than any program during that decade. The program was cool, hated and most of all respected by anyone that was fan of the game. Replacing Al was second most difficult hire, after Lombardi, in state sports history. All I know is Al is still talked about 36 years after he retired which to me puts the man in lofty company.

[Galway Eagle]

Keefe the whole lad and mate thing kinda put me off from your last comment.  But essentially what I'm saying is .72 winning percentage at MU and made the ncaa tournament 5/6 times isn't shabby heck 5/6 is better than Crean at 5/9, Deane at 2/5 or O'Neil at 2/5 and is better than Eddie Hickey 2/6 or Jack Nagle 1/5.  I'm not gonna sit here and say he was consistent with where we were, he was a downgrade no doubt but every coach's performance except Buzz's so far we would call a downgrade from Al (9/13 but really 10/13).  I guess I'm only arguing that everybody screams failure because of who he was replacing as opposed to looking at our overall history and realizing he's responsible for a nice little chunk.  I agree wholeheartedly that he wasn't the right hire to keep us elite but by no means was he a complete flop like people make him out to be.  

[Galway Eagle]

You also keep mentioning that he never got any Blue chip recruits... I'm going to play the Doc Rivers card.

[keefe]

I never said Hank was an outright failure. But he certainly did not hold serve. There were other more qualified candidates available. Hell, do I dare suggest Digger would have been a better hire? Lou Carnesecca would have been an interesting choice, too. 

[Galway Eagle]

I never said Hank was an outright failure. But he certainly did not hold serve. There were other more qualified candidates available. Hell, do I dare suggest Digger would have been a better hire? Lou Carnesecca would have been an interesting choice, too. 

"If not failure then how should one characterize so precipitous a decline in power and prestige in so short a period of time?" -keefe

I can't believe Digger wouldve been interested I thought he hated Marquette.  But Carnesecca would've been very interesting. 

[keefe]

"If not failure then how should one characterize so precipitous a decline in power and prestige in so short a period of time?" -keefe

I can't believe Digger wouldve been interested I thought he hated Marquette.  But Carnesecca would've been very interesting. 

Isn't that what is known as a rhetorical question?

And yes, Digger was extremely interested in the Marquette job. Some say his antipathy for MU stems from his not getting the job.

Hank did sign Rivers, Moore, Johnson & Johnson, Trotter, and Wilson. Unfortunately, Moore didn't pan out and he never did sign a quality big, to include forwards. That was his Achilles Heel. And Marquette slid into irrelevance as a consequence.

[Tums Festival]

In all fairness, Hank did sign our last McDonald's All-American recruit.

[GGGG]

As someone who was just getting into following MU basketball around the time Hank took over for Al, everyone knew the program was in decline.  Despite recruiting Doc...despite the NCAA tournament appearances...it was evident.  They didn't advance in the NCAA tournament.  They were losing games they were winning just a few years earlier. 

That being said, it is some serious Monday Morning Quarterbacking to suggest that they shouldn't have hired Hank.  My goodness would Al and his crew have had a fit had they hired Digger.  IMO the much bigger wrong was hiring Rick after Hank.  That is when they should have switched gears and gone outside the program.

And we have said this before, but getting bad in the early to mid 80s, when college basketball was on a serious upswing, hamstrung the program for 20 years. 

[dgies9156]

Keefe the whole lad and mate thing kinda put me off from your last comment.  But essentially what I'm saying is .72 winning percentage at MU and made the ncaa tournament 5/6 times isn't shabby heck 5/6 is better than Crean at 5/9, Deane at 2/5 or O'Neil at 2/5 and is better than Eddie Hickey 2/6 or Jack Nagle 1/5.  I'm not gonna sit here and say he was consistent with where we were, he was a downgrade no doubt but every coach's performance except Buzz's so far we would call a downgrade from Al (9/13 but really 10/13).  I guess I'm only arguing that everybody screams failure because of who he was replacing as opposed to looking at our overall history and realizing he's responsible for a nice little chunk.  I agree wholeheartedly that he wasn't the right hire to keep us elite but by no means was he a complete flop like people make him out to be.  

The facts:
  1) We were defending national champions when we hired Hank.
  2) He was at the helm of the single worst game in MU history -- the debacle in 1978 against Miami of Ohio. Sorry, but AL never would have lost that game. Never, ever never.
  3) When Majerus replaced Hank, the program was on a downward spiral that was not reversed until KO arrived.

Hank wasn't the only problem. The university cheaped out in basketball. The world changed and the Big East was formed. Studs that had five colleges to choose from suddenly had 40 to 50 because schools like Marquette proved you did not have to be a large state school to win at basketball. And the SEC quit discriminating against African American ball players.

Still, the lack of vision in the late 1970s and early 1980s was problematic. We were good and should have stayed good. We weren't and there was a reason for it -- the lack of a charismatic coach.

[dgies9156]

That being said, it is some serious Monday Morning Quarterbacking to suggest that they shouldn't have hired Hank.  My goodness would Al and his crew have had a fit had they hired Digger.  IMO the much bigger wrong was hiring Rick after Hank.  That is when they should have switched gears and gone outside the program.

Sorry Terror, that's just not accurate. As someone who was on campus at the time, we knew Hank would not be Al.

We had the example of Phil Bengston succeeding Vince Lombardi.

We saw when John Wooden retired that UCLA couldn't keep up.

Even Joe B. Hall (thankfully) wasn't Adolph Rupp.

Digger was not coming to Marquette. But imagine what the 1980s would have been like if Denny Crum did!

[GGGG]

Sorry Terror, that's just not accurate. As someone who was on campus at the time, we knew Hank would not be Al.

We had the example of Phil Bengston succeeding Vince Lombardi.

We saw when John Wooden retired that UCLA couldn't keep up.

Even Joe B. Hall (thankfully) wasn't Adolph Rupp.

Digger was not coming to Marquette. But imagine what the 1980s would have been like if Denny Crum did!

I think you are mistaking what I said.  I never said that Hank would equal Al.  Just that it would have been a very difficult task to hire someone other than Hank.

And how sure are we that Crum would have accepted the job?  He had already been to two Final Fours at Louisville by the time Al retired.

[keefe]

And how sure are we that Crum would have accepted the job?  He had already been to two Final Fours at Louisville by the time Al retired.

I am not the most connected with Marquette basketball and I will always qualify comments as being opinion. But my wife was part of the program and through her network I learned years later that Crum and MU had an agreement in place in the late 70's. Evidently Crum wasn't happy with UL and MU knew that a change was warranted. MU dawdled, I believe it was financial, and Louisville stepped up. Cum did get a huge raise from UL when he signed an extension in 1980. So yes, Denny Crum was ready to take the Marquette job.

[keefe]

Keefe the whole lad and mate thing kinda put me off from your last comment.  

It wasn't a personal slight. You asked about my RN analogy. The quotes are from Noel Coward.

The best benefit of living in London is the theatre. We made it to Covent Garden as often as life would permit.

[GGGG]

I am not the most connected with Marquette basketball and I will always qualify comments as being opinion. But my wife was part of the program and through her network I learned years later that Crum and MU had an agreement in place in the late 70's. Evidently Crum wasn't happy with UL and MU knew that a change was warranted. MU dawdled, I believe it was financial, and Louisville stepped up. Cum did get a huge raise from UL when he signed an extension in 1980. So yes, Denny Crum was ready to take the Marquette job.

Hey, that's better info than I have.  (wikipedia)

[keefe]

Hey, that's better info than I have.  (wikipedia)

Imagine how different the Reagan Era would have been at Marquette had Crum been hired. People who focus on the pennies rarely see the dollars.

[Galway Eagle]

It wasn't a personal slight. You asked about my RN analogy. The quotes are from Noel Coward.

The best benefit of living in London is the theatre. We made it to Covent Garden as often as life would permit.

I see I thought you were just trying to be a dick and chose that method because I'm a bagpiper

[keefe]

I see I thought you were just trying to be a dick and chose that method because I'm a bagpiper

No way! It's a lament from Noel Coward. Coward felt the RN was England and England was the RN. In a way he was not wrong.

As for the pipes my Gram is from Edinburgh and I grew up hearing Scotland the Brave and Blue Bonnet. I hear there are some folks on another isle who also play the pipes... Either way it is truly God's Own Voice.

"The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scots as a joke, but the Scots haven't seen the joke yet." - Oliver Herford

"Some men there are love not a gaping pig, some that are mad if they behold a cat, and others when the bagpipe sings I the nose cannot contain their urine." - William Shakespeare