10 Most Under Rated Coaches in CBB History

[keefe]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1658509-ranking-the-10-most-underrated-coaches-in-college-basketball-history

[Nukem2]

Joe B. Hall underrated?  Good grief...!  That is laughable.  Lefty Driesell should be on the most overrated list.  And , Huggy surely does not belong on the list.

[wadesworld]

Where's Stew Morrill?

[keefe]

Where's Stew Morrill?

More to the point, where in the world is Chico?

[madtownwarrior]

You can't be under-rated if you are "legendary."

Where's Stew Morrill?

[Tums Festival]

The only name missing to put this joke of a list over the top is Digger Phelps.

[Jay Bee]

What's with the bleacher report posts on here lately?

[keefe]

It's the off-season. Besides, how many times do you ever get to speak of Lefty Driesell?

[Goose]

I would put Ray Meyer in most over rated group. Al leaving made his career.

[martyconlonontherun]

What's with the bleacher report posts on here lately?

Yeah, no idea why people bother with bleacher report. I would honestly be more interested in it being an open discussion with keefe listing his then trying to make that site some kind of authoritative figure.

[slack00]

Yeah, no idea why people bother with bleacher report. I would honestly be more interested in it being an open discussion with keefe listing his then trying to make that site some kind of authoritative figure.

Bleacher Report has two different types of writers now.  If the story comes from a "National Writer" or something similar the story has more credibility than if it comes from a ranking or list coming from a "Featured Columnist" who is unpaid except for the clicks they get.

[Galway Eagle]

I would put Ray Meyer in most over rated group. Al leaving made his career.

He was good Pre-Al to though. I mean 13 NCAA appearances and 8 NITs (when it was still legit) is not to shabby. But he certainly went through a rough period while Al was up here. 

[keefe]

I would put Ray Meyer in most over rated group. Al leaving made his career.

Goose,

I think Meyer had a decent career that spanned decades. I agree, though, that the worst thing that happened to Ray Meyer was Al McGuire joining Marquette. The best thing might have been when Al left Marquette though one could argue that signing George Mikan was more significant.

One of the taboos here seems to be the legacy of Hank Raymonds. I can think of no finer gentleman but I am not convinced he was the best possible hire for a defending national champion. Even at that time, despite Al's endorsements of Hank, many of us in McCormick wondered about that decision. I recall a number of candidates declared their interest in the Marquette position including Denny Crum, Digger Phelps, and Luigi Carnesecca among others. History might have been written rather differently had we gone in a different direction in 1977.

[GGGG]

Goose,

I think Meyer had a decent career that spanned decades. I agree, though, that the worst thing that happened to Ray Meyer was Al McGuire joining Marquette. The best thing might have been when Al left Marquette though one could argue that signing George Mikan was more significant.

One of the taboos here seems to be the legacy of Hank Raymonds. I can think of no finer gentleman but I am not convinced he was the best possible hire for a defending national champion. Even at that time, despite Al's endorsements of Hank, many of us in McCormick wondered about that decision. I recall a number of candidates declared their interest in the Marquette position including Denny Crum, Digger Phelps, and Luigi Carnesecca among others. History might have been written rather differently had we gone in a different direction in 1977.

It's very difficult for a school to replace a legend from someone "outside the family."  If they hire an outsider and it fails, the AD gets lambasted and turmoil ensues.  If the insider fails, the AD shrugs their shoulders and says "hey, he just didn't have it."

See what happens when Coach K retires.  I am about 99% certain they will hire from within the family even if none have the chops to do the job.  (a la Doughtery at UNC.)

[dgies9156]

One of the taboos here seems to be the legacy of Hank Raymonds. I can think of no finer gentleman but I am not convinced he was the best possible hire for a defending national champion. Even at that time, despite Al's endorsements of Hank, many of us in McCormick wondered about that decision. I recall a number of candidates declared their interest in the Marquette position including Denny Crum, Digger Phelps, and Luigi Carnesecca among others. History might have been written rather differently had we gone in a different direction in 1977.

This post is the master of the understatement.

Loyalty is very important in life -- and in college basketball. But Hank had been passed over as head coach in 1964 for a reason. That reason did not go away in 1977 and certainly by 1980 we knew we had a problem. A BIG one. All of the bad things that happened to us in the 1980s and until KO rebuilt the program could be traced to this decision.

I agree that Hank was a fine gentleman and an outstanding person who was very loyal to our university. But he was to Al McGuire what Phil Bengston was to Vince Lombardi.

[Tums Festival]

Goose,

I think Meyer had a decent career that spanned decades. I agree, though, that the worst thing that happened to Ray Meyer was Al McGuire joining Marquette. The best thing might have been when Al left Marquette though one could argue that signing George Mikan was more significant.

One of the taboos here seems to be the legacy of Hank Raymonds. I can think of no finer gentleman but I am not convinced he was the best possible hire for a defending national champion. Even at that time, despite Al's endorsements of Hank, many of us in McCormick wondered about that decision. I recall a number of candidates declared their interest in the Marquette position including Denny Crum, Digger Phelps, and Luigi Carnesecca among others. History might have been written rather differently had we gone in a different direction in 1977.

Couldn't agree more. Hank was definitely a class act and very nice guy. Met him a few times during my time at Marquette and he was always great to talk with. I think most people on this board would agree he could certainly coach, look at his record with the Freshmen teams, but couldn't get the talent as the head coach. Too bad he wasn't hired on at St. Louis or somewhere like that so MU wouldn't have been in the position they were in when Al retired.

[Newsdreams]

It's very difficult for a school to replace a legend from someone "outside the family."  If they hire an outsider and it fails, the AD gets lambasted and turmoil ensues.  If the insider fails, the AD shrugs their shoulders and says "hey, he just didn't have it."

So is this why Buzz was hired?

[Goose]

Keefe

Exactly correct on the whole Hank point. In my heart I believe Al's endorsement was 95% out of being loyal and 5% he knew Hank would not outshine him with future success. Al loved MU, his job and his legacy. If MU would had hired someone else there was outside chance that guy could have continued or built on Al's success. Al was like most eccentric, successful guys and his legacy is still being talked about almost 40 years later. He loved that.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Where's Stew Morrill?

It's bleecher, remember it isn't supposed to matter.   

[wadesworld]

It's bleecher, remember it isn't supposed to matter.   

[Dr. Blackheart]

Hank has a 71.6% winning percentage over six seasons.  It is really hard to call him a failure.  More like it is hard to follow a legend.  Second all-time to Al.  Jesus would be an underachiever to Al. 

[Galway Eagle]

Hank goes to the NCAA tournament 5 out of 6 times and the year he goes to the NIT wasnt even his worst year as he still made 20 wins as opposed to the 18-9 and 19-10 tournament teams.  So I fail to see why he's thought of as a failure.  Sure he's not a legend or anything but saying he failed is pretty harsh. 

[keefe]

Hank goes to the NCAA tournament 5 out of 6 times and the year he goes to the NIT wasnt even his worst year as he still made 20 wins as opposed to the 18-9 and 19-10 tournament teams.  So I fail to see why he's thought of as a failure.  Sure he's not a legend or anything but saying he failed is pretty harsh. 

Marquette was a dominant national power when Hank took over. We were no longer in that position by the time he left. As Goose mentioned, Hank was not the recruiter that Al was. Al got the best talent in America. Under Hank, we were in the conversation in his early years. But we just missed on several Blue Chippers. Instead of signing the Bowies and Mcrays we were signing the Lazarettis and Schlundts. Hank inherited the defending national champion from Al. He turned over an unranked program to Majerus. If not failure then how should one characterize so precipitous a decline in power and prestige in so short a period of time?

The sun never set on the British Empire under Victoria. Elizabeth handed over the British Crown Colony of Hong Kong to Beijing. The Royal Navy once ruled the waves and Rule Britannia was much more than a stirring ballad. The RN now has just 12 effective surface combatants.

[Galway Eagle]

I don't know where you're going with the British navy thing.  But in my opinion Hank did well.  Clearly wasnt the legend that Al was but if you take Hank's record an put him at any other juncture of our program (outside of right now) wed all agree he was a success but instead we say failure because of who came before him. 

[keefe]

I don't know where you're going with the British navy thing.  But in my opinion Hank did well.  Clearly wasnt the legend that Al was but if you take Hank's record an put him at any other juncture of our program (outside of right now) wed all agree he was a success but instead we say failure because of who came before him. 

End of Empire, mate.

As for Hank, you keep citing his record. But the bottom line is he inherited the defending National Champion and took the program straight out of national prominence.

Every year Al signed a couple Blue Chippers. We were the UNC to UCLA's Duke. We were one of the THREE BEST basketball programs in this great republic. We knew there was a problem when we were always on the short list of the Blue Chips but they were signing elsewhere. Instead of signing Sam Bowie we signed Marc Marotta. Instead of signing the McRay brothers we signed Schlundt and Lazaretti. By the end of Hank's tenure we were no longer on the short list of any Blue Chips. And we were also out of the rankings.

End of Empire, lad.