Jimmy vs Lazar NBA careers

[flash]

I'm wondering why Jimmy has had so much more NBA success than Lazar.  They are about the same size, Jimmy is probably a tad more athletic, but Lazar was always the much more polished offensive player.  They both were terrific college defenders and excellent rebounders.  Both players were picked in the exact same draft slot, but Jimmy has seem to found his niche, while Lazar is struggling to find himself on an NBA roster.  What went wrong with Lazar? and what went so right with Jimmy?

Thoughts?

[Galway Eagle]

I'd say lazar saw dead people and jimmy was sane? Just kidding.  Really jimmy found the right coach and lazar didn't and I feel like that's a huge part of being an NBA pick is being utilized correctly. 

[Silkk the Shaka]

Fairly simple - Lazar is an undersized stretch 4 that's not terribly efficient offensively (or "polished" as you put it).  He's too small to guard most NBA 4s and too slow to guard most NBA wings.

Jimmy, on the other hand, is several inches taller than Zar, far more bouncy/athletic, can guard NBA 2s, 3s, and 4s, and possesses a much more efficient offensive game.

To add to it, Jimmy was 21 when he got drafted, Zar was 23.  There was a lot more upside potential that Jimmy didn't show at Marquette due to his youth/relative physical immaturity.  He's the same age now as Zar was as a senior.  Put the two side by side at the same age, and it's really not close.  Love them both, but Jimmy is definitely the better NBA prospect.

[77fan88warrior]

Lazar had a lot of success playing as an undersized 4 or 5 in college and he can't do that in the NBA.

Jimmy did much the same but he also had more skill driving to the basket from the wing and a better mid-range game to keep defenders honest.

Jimmy has the flexibility to play two, three, or four defensively. He also has more offensive skills than Lazar overall.

Love both of them and they both have heart but Jimmy has more God given talent and size for his position.

[marquette20]

Lazar is a big man stuck in a little mans body eventually it will catch up to you
Jimmy is versatile enough where he translates into a shooting guard/small forward in the pros that helped him be able to guard anyone pretty much

[Silkk the Shaka]

Lazar had a lot of success playing as an undersized 4 or 5 in college and he can't do that in the NBA.

Wes deferred to Jerel and Dominic his first three years but things changed his senior year. Wes learned how to use his body and scored a lot of points from the free throw line. Wes's skills were also highlighted under Buzz's direction versus the predecessor.

Bottom line is that Wes has a comparable body to his competitors at his position and Lazar isn't as blessed.

Both have heart!

Hmmmm..... Wes/Jimmy signals get crossed?

[MU82]

Jimmy was and is significantly more athletic, and was and is a far superior defender. I was mildly surprised that Butler was a first-round pick. I was stunned that Hayward was.

[77fan88warrior]

Hmmmm..... Wes/Jimmy signals get crossed?

For sure and I was editing while you were correctly calling me out. Pretty much the same story though.

[flash]

Jimmy was and is significantly more athletic, and was and is a far superior defender. I was mildly surprised that Butler was a first-round pick. I was stunned that Hayward was.

Jimmy certainly wins the eye test for athletic ability, but the NBA combine numbers were actually quite similar. 

Both had no-step vertical leaps of 31, Lazar either beat or tied all of Jimmy's agility numbers.  Surprisingly  Lazar has about 4 inches on Jimmy in wingspan too. 

I guess I am just disappointed that Lazar didn't pan out as an NBA player.  I thought his offensive prowess would make him stick with a team, but it's hard when you are so undersized for your position. 

[Lennys Tap]

Jimmy was and is significantly more athletic, and was and is a far superior defender.

Correct. It's not even close.

[Silkk the Shaka]

For sure and I was editing while you were correctly calling me out. Pretty much the same story though.

Haha, figured

[77ncaachamps]

Opportunity. Minutes.

Pretty much it!

[MUHoopsFan2]

I'm wondering why Jimmy has had so much more NBA success than Lazar.  They are about the same size, Jimmy is probably a tad more athletic, but Lazar was always the much more polished offensive player.  They both were terrific college defenders and excellent rebounders.  Both players were picked in the exact same draft slot, but Jimmy has seem to found his niche, while Lazar is struggling to find himself on an NBA roster.  What went wrong with Lazar? and what went so right with Jimmy?

Thoughts?

No one just landed in a better situation of need then the other. I am shocked the Rockets did not keep Lazar. He is a big body two guard they can surely use. I bet he is up with the Lakers sometime soon. The Bucks could do much worse.

[CTWarrior]

Both had no-step vertical leaps of 31, Lazar either beat or tied all of Jimmy's agility numbers.  Surprisingly  Lazar has about 4 inches on Jimmy in wingspan too.  

This stuns me.  Having watched their Marquette careers, I'd have though Butler was significantly more athletic than Lazar.  

Coming out of college, I though Butler had a great chance to stick in the NBA, but did not think the same of Lazar.  A 6-5 set-shooting power forward without great ball handling skills or great athleticism?  That doesn't scream NBA player to me.  Lazar was a very smart player at MU, finding seams and using his strength and guile to make things happen.  Much, much harder to be successful doing those kinds of things against NBA quality athleticism.  I can't picture Lazar guarding NBA level 2s, 3s or 4s.

On the other hand, Butler is more like 6-7, quicker first step, better ball handler, much more athletic (or so I thought).  He can guard NBA 2s and 3s (and in fact he is quite good at it).  Of course, Jimmy is doing even better than I thought he would.  I think he is, in terms of true worth, in the top half of NBA player right now, which is really impressive.

[Niv Berkowitz]

Fairly simple - Lazar is an undersized stretch 4 that's not terribly efficient offensively (or "polished" as you put it).  He's too small to guard most NBA 4s and too slow to guard most NBA wings.

Jimmy, on the other hand, is several inches taller than Zar, far more bouncy/athletic, can guard NBA 2s, 3s, and 4s, and possesses a much more efficient offensive game.

To add to it, Jimmy was 21 when he got drafted, Zar was 23.  There was a lot more upside potential that Jimmy didn't show at Marquette due to his youth/relative physical immaturity.  He's the same age now as Zar was as a senior.  Put the two side by side at the same age, and it's really not close.  Love them both, but Jimmy is definitely the better NBA prospect.

Wow, I never realized Jimmy was bigger than Zar. I always thought Jimmy was 6'5" or 6'4".

Jimmy 6'7"
Lazar 6'6"

FYI

[HoopsMalone]

Jimmy's lateral quickness and explosiveness distinguish him from Lazar.  They might have equal numbers in a combine, but at game speed Jimmy's explosiveness sets him apart.  Lazar could not finish on lobs like Jimmy is doing night in and night out.  Lazard athleticism doesn't allow him to creat space on pull up jumpers like jimmy can.  Lazar really can't take two dribbles and pull up and shoot over someone from 15 feet. 

I thought Lazar could have been a nice piece on a good team.  I'm disappointed OKC didn't work out.  There could have been a role for him matching up with Battier against the Heat's small lineup. 

Jimmy looks well on his way to a nice second contract.  He may get paid starting wing money.   He has a great chance to start at the 2 next season or the 3 if Deng leaves in 2 years.

[MarsupialMadness]

Opportunity. Minutes.

Pretty much it!

This. 

It has nothing to do with anything else people have mentioned.  Jimmy got his opportunity to play in Chicago. 

Deng went down last year, the Bulls were struggling at the 3 spot... and Jimmy didn't play all that well to begin with.  But he played well enough to stick around... showed a lot of effort and promise.

Then he got some more opportunity this year and really carved out a role for himself.  Now he's just as much part of this year's Bulls team as anyone else... perhaps an even bigger presence than anyone else on the team.

Rose being out all year has helped him too.  Needed to shift peeps around.  Rip Hamilton was out a good part of the year... Heinrich kept going down... Deng is old and his body can be unreliable... and they got rid of everyone that was on the bench mob last year except for him.

Opportunity knocked and Jimmy didn't f it up.

[Badgerhater]

Hard to develop when you start out with the Timberwolves.

First jobs after college don't work out for lots of people, however, Zar will always be a first round pick and NBA player, as well as starting out his post-college life with a few million in his pocket.

Not too shabby. 

[MerrittsMustache]

As others have mentioned, it's all about getting an opportunity.

Steve Novak is a prime example. He's on his fifth team and joined them in his sixth season. Prior to coming to the Knicks, he had only once (in 6 stops) averaged more than 8.6 minutes per game. Now he's playing 20 minutes/game for the 2-seed in the East.

The huge difference is that Novak has a very unique and valuable skill, 3-point shooting. Jimmy also has proven his value by being a lock-down defender. Lazar is more of the guy who does a lot of things well but nothing great. I don't think that lock-down defender or ballhandler extraordinaire or rebounding machine are ever going to be Lazar's calling. Hopefully he's in the gym putting up 1,000 threes a day because becoming a 3-point specialist is the most likely way that he'll catch a GMs eye and find a niche on an NBA roster.

[MU82]

Jimmy's lateral quickness and explosiveness distinguish him from Lazar.  They might have equal numbers in a combine, but at game speed Jimmy's explosiveness sets him apart.  Lazar could not finish on lobs like Jimmy is doing night in and night out.  Lazard athleticism doesn't allow him to creat space on pull up jumpers like jimmy can.  Lazar really can't take two dribbles and pull up and shoot over someone from 15 feet. 

I thought Lazar could have been a nice piece on a good team.  I'm disappointed OKC didn't work out.  There could have been a role for him matching up with Battier against the Heat's small lineup. 

Jimmy looks well on his way to a nice second contract.  He may get paid starting wing money.   He has a great chance to start at the 2 next season or the 3 if Deng leaves in 2 years.

Just goes to show you how relatively unimportant combine stats are. How a guy jumps just for the sake of jumping means nothing compared to how a guy jumps when he's going after a rebound. A guy's time in the 40 means little compared to how a guy actually keeps up with his opponent in the open court. Jerry Rice's combine numbers were mediocre. He turned out OK, and he is just the most famous on the long list of NFL and NBA players whose combine numbers have meant little.

I don't care what combine numbers say. We watched Jimmy for three years and Lazar for four. If there's a single Marquette observer who doesn't believe Jimmy was a far superior basketball athlete, I haven't met him/her.

[PistolPete]

Anyone know what Zar is up to now?

[mu-rara]

Jimmy gettin some ESPN love this morning.

[westcoastwarrior]

Lazar finished the season on the Lakers D-League team.  I think he ended the season as their leading scorer...

[GooooMarquette]

Opportunity, opportunity, opportunity.

Wesley was just a rookie sub riding the pines until CJ Miles got injured.  He got minutes out of necessity, not by choice, and he took advantage of the opportunity.  Likewise for Jimmy.  His minutes were spotty, but injuries on the Bulls gave him more opportunities to play, and he has taken full advantage of them.  Both guys deserve credit for taking maximum advantage of their opportunities...but it all started with them getting opportunities.

Lazar has never had the same opportunities to get big minutes out of necessity, nor has DJO.  Both guys could thrive in the right situation. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Opportunity, opportunity, opportunity.

Wesley was just a rookie sub riding the pines until CJ Miles got injured.  He got minutes out of necessity, not by choice, and he took advantage of the opportunity.  Likewise for Jimmy.  His minutes were spotty, but injuries on the Bulls gave him more opportunities to play, and he has taken full advantage of them.  Both guys deserve credit for taking maximum advantage of their opportunities...but it all started with them getting opportunities.

Lazar has never had the same opportunities to get big minutes out of necessity, nor has DJO.  Both guys could thrive in the right situation. 

Lazar did have a 10-game stretch his rookie season where he averaged 19 min/game (not sure if it was due to an injury). During those 10 games, he averaged 7.7 points and 3.2 rebounds, shooting 41.2% from the floor and 23.8% (5-21) from 3.

Since then, he has played in 41 NBA games but gotten double-digit minutes just 5 times (only once more than 12 min).

Not to overdramatize it, but that may have been his chance. Hopefully not though.