Wardle Under Abuse Investigation At UWGB

[TheDOC816]

My dad was a coach at a variety of levels, including high school varsity baseball, for many years. He was old school in a lot of ways.
As a kid, I was at most practices and saw him yell at kids, throw guys out of practice, kick kids off of the team, etc.
BUT, he NEVER demeaned a kid, swore AT a kid, used racial, ethnic or gay slurs, etc. etc.
I realize D1 athletics is incredibly intense (WAY more than HS athletics)... but the idea that a coach HAS to treat players poorly to motivate them is off of the charts stupid.
Can aspects of a coach/player relationship be misinterpreted or taken out of context? Absolutely.
Do coaches need to bully kids to "get the most out of them"? No. Nope. Nada. No way.

I agree with you that you don't have to treat your players to be successful.  That doesn't mean swearing or demeaning them crosses the line of what a coach can't or shouldn't do.

[Ari Gold]

Both of my Alma maters are involved in this story
Bet this isnt the last one of these stories either... Parents trying to capitalize on the fervor of the Rice story to show that their kids were "mistreated" as well.

Fun Fact -one of the other players leaving, Kam Cerroni is from neighboring Sussex. His Dad teaches in the MF School District and is the HS Coach at Sussex.

I'm going after my 8th grade basketball coach.

I should sue my little league "coach" for being such a crapbird that I gave up on baseball... unnatural carnal knowledgestick cost me millions...

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I agree with you that you don't have to treat your players to be successful.  That doesn't mean swearing or demeaning them crosses the line of what a coach can't or shouldn't do.

For me, personally, I think demeaning a player crosses the line.

I don't think every coach should be fired for it... but I just think it's a stupid, meatheaded approach to coaching/teaching/motivating.

Coaches should be honest with a player: "You aren't very good right now. You aren't earning your spot. You probably shouldn't be here, etc."

But, don't specifically demean a kid just to motivate him. "You are too fat. You'll never play. You are too slow. You are a waste of space. You are a waste of a scholarship, etc."

I know it's right out of Herb Brooks' coaching manual (love Herb Brooks), but I think there are a lot of other techniques, especially for college athletics where you have these kids for 4 years (theoretically).

That's just me, I guess.

[TheDOC816]

For me, personally, I think demeaning a player crosses the line.
I don't think every coach should be fired for it... but I just think it's a stupid, meatheaded approach to coaching/teaching/motivating.
Coaches should be honest with a player: "You aren't very good right now. You aren't earning your spot. You probably shouldn't be here, etc."
But, don't specifically demean a kid just to motivate him. "You are too fat. You'll never play. You are too slow. You are a waste of space. You are a waste of a scholarship, etc."
I know it's right out of Herb Brooks' coaching manual (love Herb Brooks), but I think there are a lot of other techniques, especially for college athletics where you have these kids for 4 years (theoretically).
That's just me, I guess.

I think the people who think demeaning a player isn't bad are the people who are motivated by being demeaned.  I know if I heard I was too fat, too slow(which really isn't demeaning) I'd be motivated to show that I was worth it, wasn't slow etc.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think the people who think demeaning a player isn't bad are the people who are motivated by being demeaned.  I know if I heard I was too fat, too slow(which really isn't demeaning) I'd be motivated to show that I was worth it, wasn't slow etc.

Totally get it. It's not a perfect science. Lot's of human psychology in play.

I just prefer a more honest approach: "Listen, you're too heavy to be good. You either lose weight, or you aren't going to play." vs "You're a fat-f*cker, and you're never going to play because you drink gravy like it's Gatorade."

Obviously there is a middle ground, but I fear that some coaches think it's ok to bully/demean a kid if it gets the kid to perform.

I think there are better methods, especially if I have a kid for multiple years.

[akmarq]

Let's be real - anyone crying that this is some kind of crime against American values/culture is fitting evidence to a foregone conclusion rather than coming to a conclusion based on the evidence. There aren't enough details released on this to even know what really went on.

I also think we have some serious rose-colored glasses on because Wardle has MU connections. I know some defended Rice (which is pretty crazy if you ask me) but to accuse the player of 'cashing in' on the moment when the family is explictly trying to not make this a press event is just boneheaded.

[Hards Alumni]

Let's be real - anyone crying that this is some kind of crime against American values/culture is fitting evidence to a foregone conclusion rather than coming to a conclusion based on the evidence. There aren't enough details released on this to even know what really went on.

I also think we have some serious rose-colored glasses on because Wardle has MU connections. I know some defended Rice (which ought to say enough about) but to accuse the player of 'cashing in' on the moment when the family is explictly trying to not make this a press event is just boneheaded.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[MUeagle05]

The parents of this guy aren't doing him any favors.  The guy is in college and he still has mommy trying to protect him because someone said some mean things.  That's the most pathetic part of this whole story . . .

[slack00]

https://twitter.com/K_J_SYKES/status/322474150801334272

Keifer Sykes
 ‏@K_J_SYKES 18h  Grown men still run behind their parents to solve their problems!

[augoman]

Made me think of this post (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=37774.0) and whether the comments about McGuire calling Majerus "Whitey you're one of the [expletive] worst players I ever had on one of my teams, you ought to think about quiting" will now lead to an investigation.  I have no knowledge of the situation and having 4 players leave since February could be the sign of a serious problem or the sign of a welcomed mutiny, but certainly its enough for us all to reserve judgment.  Anyone on the boards a former assistant under Wardle or Dean that have input on what type of system he might have been brought-up in or ran?  

Majerus never played ball for McGuire, nor did he play in high school.  He got the nick name Whitey because of his white/blond hair as a kid and it stuck.  He was known as Whitey in high school and college.  He was a team manager in both cases.

[Benny B]

The parents of this guy aren't doing him any favors.  The guy is in college and he still has mommy trying to protect him because someone said some mean things.  That's the most pathetic part of this whole story . . .

There's nothing I despise more when it comes to parenting than 'helicopter' parents... but let's keep in mind that whether that's the case here is merely speculation at this point.

[Pakuni]

For me, personally, I think demeaning a player crosses the line.

I don't think every coach should be fired for it... but I just think it's a stupid, meatheaded approach to coaching/teaching/motivating.

Coaches should be honest with a player: "You aren't very good right now. You aren't earning your spot. You probably shouldn't be here, etc."

But, don't specifically demean a kid just to motivate him. "You are too fat. You'll never play. You are too slow. You are a waste of space. You are a waste of a scholarship, etc."

I know it's right out of Herb Brooks' coaching manual (love Herb Brooks), but I think there are a lot of other techniques, especially for college athletics where you have these kids for 4 years (theoretically).

That's just me, I guess.

But isn't determining what's "demeaning" entirely contextual and subjective?
Buzz calling Davante fat is pretty demeaning. But in the context of their relationship, it's probably not seen that way by either guy.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

But isn't determining what's "demeaning" entirely contextual and subjective?
Buzz calling Davante fat is pretty demeaning. But in the context of their relationship, it's probably not seen that way by either guy.

yea, it's not a perfect science. What is "bullying" anyways?

My response is just based upon my own personal experience (son of a coach) and some of the responses here (ie Kids these days are hairy wet cats!)

I don't like the idea of a coach repeatedly bullying a player, and then writing it off as "trying to toughen him up!". It doesn't have to work like that. That's not the only way to get players to perform. Let's see if we can evolve as coaches and parents.

[sarcastro]

These kids are getting free educations (tens if not hundred hundreds of thousands of dollars) to work their ass off for the basketball team.  The coach should be allowed to light a fire under these kids.

Grad Students on a stipend look out.  You're getting a free education so prepare to have fires lit under you.

Or does this only apply to those getting free educations who are generating millions of dollars for the university?

[Stretchdeltsig]

Agree with what Gun has said twice before.  Coaches can motivate the players without demeaning them or verbally abusing them.  Positive motivation should be used.  Coaches are considered teachers and have to abide by the same professional ethics.  Student players have the right not to play for an abusive coach.  Players should check out coaches' behavior before they sign up to play for a school.  Yes, coaches and schools are accountable for abusive behavior and it should be enforced.

[willie warrior]

Certainly do not know many facts here, but what has been published thus far seems silly. Apparently Wardle periodically get frustrated and cursed at some players or hollered at them--this from a former female student manager.
Has anybody seen or heard guys like Calipari, Krzshetski, McGuire, or many other coaches? My favorite scene is when Shurshetski (pronounciation) has his nose and lips all snarled up in a sneer either at a player or a ref in a heated moment of a game. Wonder what he is muttering during those scenes. Classic!

This Wardle thing seems like "Nothing to see here", but I guess we will need to wait until UWGB gets done appointing an investigation committee including students, media, regents, policy experts, security guards, the State AG, the NCAA, etc., and that Committe puts out their findings. Then Wardle will be required to attend some sensitiivity training.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

I think this all has to do with relationship. jesmu84 can attest that there are jokes made among some of our friends that would look terrible printed up in a newspaper. That said, if I didn't know someone very well and repeatedly told them they were a selfish ass, it may go over the line.

With regards to coaching and specifically Buzz, he seems to really front-load the relationship building with both the kid and their parent(s), which I expect would allow him to more quickly get to the point where he doesn't have to worry that a particularly crass comment would be interpreted as bullying.

[slingkong]

You are terribly obtuse in your logic, Benny. You confuse physical difference with intrinsic value and moral indignation over eroding values.

I have a mother who taught me chivalry. I was expected to open doors, pull chairs, listen attentively, and most importantly treat all women with respect and dignity. Her father, brothers and husband were gentlemen and she expected the same from her sons. Her brothers and husband went to war several times and all served with honor in combat. They acted as men.

Our daughter was graduated with honors from Columbia and is beginning her graduate studies at Harvard this August. She worked at the Clinton Foundation for two years and has interned at the Gates Foundation. She worked as a volunteer in refugee camps in the Horn of Africa and joined her aunt, a surgeon, on Médecins Sans Frontières missions in Sri Lanka and Nepal. We taught her that gender is never a barrier and she has lived her life accordingly. She has thrived in difficult environments and has never let matters of gender, race, age, or nationality be an issue - for herself or in others.

Both my mother and daughter are educated, accomplished women who recognize and celebrate differences in gender. Because they exist. And that is a very good thing. Both have expected me to behave as a gentleman and as a man as circumstances have warranted. Anyone who argues otherwise is a fool. And a coward - both intellectually and ethically.

Well bully for you! That doesn't mean that screaming and throwing temper tantrums is a way to teach or cajole. It just makes the screamer look like a bleeding pretty boy - whether it's a basketball coach or Marine.

[mugrad99]

As a tutor for the men's team in 1989-90, I have never heard such creative language directed towards the players, and this was during their study sessions. Can't imagine what practice was like.

[Lennys Tap]

But isn't determining what's "demeaning" entirely contextual and subjective?
Buzz calling Davante fat is pretty demeaning. But in the context of their relationship, it's probably not seen that way by either guy.

Spot on. There are some coaches who are just bullies and there are some parents/critics who are just too sensitive, but that's on the fringe. In general, it's all about context. I think coaches are better "communicators" than they were a generation ago, but some encourage where others push. If a coach isn't over the top I wouldn't rip him for his style - as long as the athlete and his parents knew the score coming in. But it's funny, what's tough love with one of the starters can sometimes feel like abuse to one on the end of the bench.

[TheTulsaWarrior]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130415/GPG020110/130415057/UWGB-picks-local-attorney-investigate-Wardle?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|

[Blackhat]

“My instructions are to start and do it as promptly as possible,” Nicks said. “But I don’t have a time limit on my report. It really is more important to do a thorough job and get it right.”a


This lawyer knows what he's doing.    Might as well rip the state off with these circuses.

[ChicosBailBonds]

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[keefe]

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A red hot poker...

[Tums Festival]

Second player alleging abuse by Wardle:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22078582/second-green-bay-player-alleges-misconduct-by-coach-brian-wardle