Do Larry and Pilarz need to be pro-active?

[wadesworld]

On the flip side, what other revenue offsets do they expect if they bump his salary up?  If they take his salary up 10%, are they expecting 10% additional revenues to offset it?  Everyone read to have their ticket prices go up again?

There are tradeoffs with everything.  I don't disagree there are other resources that can be had, but he's already top 10 in pay today. He's the only one in the top 10 that doesn't have a Final Four, meaning he is the highest paid coach in America that hasn't reached that level.  He's well compensated as it is.

Bingo. What do we have to do, give the guy a raise any and every time his name is mentioned in some random newspaper article that's reaching for attention for another job? Give him a raise of $100,000 for each game won every single year? Has Buzz even shown any interest in leaving whatsoever? Just give him a raise for the fun of it? If we have a down season one year and he doesn't get named for open jobs do we then decrease his salary?

What can Buzz say to the administration? "I want more money based on going to the Elite Eight this year and Sweet 16 the previous 2 years." Larry Williams, "Well, Buzz, we already pay you more than any other coach who has yet to go to a Final Four, and much more than many coaches who have gone that far. Take that step next year and we'll revisit it."

You can't give a guy a raise every year when he's already paid better than every coach with his credentials.

[MUCam]

On the flip side, what other revenue offsets do they expect if they bump his salary up?  If they take his salary up 10%, are they expecting 10% additional revenues to offset it?  Everyone read to have their ticket prices go up again?

There are tradeoffs with everything.  I don't disagree there are other resources that can be had, but he's already top 10 in pay today. He's the only one in the top 10 that doesn't have a Final Four, meaning he is the highest paid coach in America that hasn't reached that level.  He's well compensated as it is.

I hate you which is why it hurts so to agree. Marquette has to pay a premium because of who we are as an institution. Buzz is not over paid given who and what Marrquette is, but he is very well compensated as it is.

I truly don't think if Buzz ever leaves it is because of money. He will always be well compensated here and worth every penny, final fours comparisons or not.

Ps. I don't really hate you, CBB. Loves....maybe you, Hoopaloop and I will laugh about disagreements over a BBQ beer some day.

[Dawson Rental]

Agree.  I think a modest raise and subsequent press conference could get the off season recruiting coaster rolling.

No one wants Buzz to stay around more than me.  I'm on record in a number of threads saying that he likely can't be replaced with the same quality coach.  But, come on.  I wonder how bad some Scoopers think that the MU job is when this stuff comes up.  Is he a top ten salary guy?  I don't know, but if he is,  that's plenty.  I do believe that when Arkansas and Oklahoma came sniffing around they were surprised how much Buzz was already getting.  I don't begrudge Buzz a cent.  But, I also don't think they MU should improve his contract every year just to calm down fans who feel that only way to keep him at our apparently pathetic university is to do that.

[4everwarriors]

C'mon Murray, pony up some of that bread and ear mark it for Buzz.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I hate you which is why it hurts so to agree. Marquette has to pay a premium because of who we are as an institution. Buzz is not over paid given who and what Marrquette is, but he is very well compensated as it is.

I truly don't think if Buzz ever leaves it is because of money. He will always be well compensated here and worth every penny, final fours comparisons or not.

Ps. I don't really hate you, CBB. Loves....maybe you, Hoopaloop and I will laugh about disagreements over a BBQ beer some day.

I definitely feel the love.   

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Cool discussion made by people with vague numbers, no experience hiring college coaches and no knowledge of this particular situation.

Relax - Buzz knows what he could command and LW/Pilarz know what they're willing to pay. This thread won't likely change either.

[MUHoopsFan2]

I think they should be proactive as well, but I don't know that that means more money necessarily to Buzz. IF the rumors are true of tension with the administration, primarily LW, than I think we aren't understanding who Buzz is if we think money will appease him and buy his presence long-term. I'm sure he appreciates the money he makes, and who wouldn't want more, but to me the more important thing would be to address whatever the issues are between Buzz and LW so Buzz feels valued and appreciated. I think those are more likely keys to making him "happy". He clearly has the support of the fans, the students and alums, but it would get old real quick if he feels the person(s) he reports to doesn't/don't support him.

I'm not advocating getting rid of LW, but if for whatever reason he can't make it work with Buzz (absent legit reasons), I truly believe it would be a lot easier to find another qualified AD than it would be to find another coach with the coaching and recruiting ability, charisma and humility that Buzz brings to the table.

Hear Hear! I agree 110%! Excellent....viewpoint. My sentiments exactly. But we dont know how tied into the process of Larry Williams is Father Pilarz and what his relationship is with Buzz?

[madtownwarrior]

sixstrings - Post #666 - are you some bulletin board prophet whose sent to point out the truth?

Cool discussion made by people with vague numbers, no experience hiring college coaches and no knowledge of this particular situation.

Relax - Buzz knows what he could command and LW/Pilarz know what they're willing to pay. This thread won't likely change either.

[Goose]

It really is hard to answer this without having firm number to base decision off of. I do find it tiresome when guys gets new deals year after year. That said, Buzz does deserve to be extremely well paid due to the impact the program has on the entire university. IMO LW&Co. hopefully have the information to determine Buzz's overall worth. If they are sitting around laughing because they feel Buzz is a steal pay wise Buzz deserves a raise. If they have done their homework and Buzz really is a top 10-15 paid coach I do not think they need to rush into anything, unless they feel they could lose him because of money.

[MUMountin]

I think they should be proactive as well, but I don't know that that means more money necessarily to Buzz.

I'd agree with that--but I don't know if I'd agree that means axing LW. 

Instead, to me that means that hopefully LW will figure out other areas that will make Buzz's life easier, even if it isn't in salary $ directly to Buzz.  Whether that is better salaries for assistants (although I think we are already in good shape there), further upgrades to the Al or in equipment, greater flexibility, etc.  There are a lot of ways to demonstrate the university's commitment to Buzz and the program that don't have to come directly in the form of salary $$$.  And, at a certain point (that I think we must be getting close to), you get diminishing returns on those salary dollars--as others have said, if Buzz ever leaves, its not likely because of money.

[StillWarriors]

I'd agree with that--but I don't know if I'd agree that means axing LW. 

Instead, to me that means that hopefully LW will figure out other areas that will make Buzz's life easier, even if it isn't in salary $ directly to Buzz.  Whether that is better salaries for assistants (although I think we are already in good shape there), further upgrades to the Al or in equipment, greater flexibility, etc.  There are a lot of ways to demonstrate the university's commitment to Buzz and the program that don't have to come directly in the form of salary $$$.  And, at a certain point (that I think we must be getting close to), you get diminishing returns on those salary dollars--as others have said, if Buzz ever leaves, its not likely because of money.

I wasn't advocating getting rid of LW.....unless his relationship with Buzz is such that Buzz would leave because of it. The ideas you suggest are all good ones if those are things that will entice Buzz to stay without breaking the bank. My only point was that from the unsubstantiated rumor mill it sounds as though Buzz is happy BUT FOR possible friction with LW. IF that is the case and they are unable to fix that relationship, my point was I'd rather see LW go than Buzz.

[Silkk the Shaka]

It really is hard to answer this without having firm number to base decision off of. I do find it tiresome when guys gets new deals year after year. That said, Buzz does deserve to be extremely well paid due to the impact the program has on the entire university. IMO LW&Co. hopefully have the information to determine Buzz's overall worth. If they are sitting around laughing because they feel Buzz is a steal pay wise Buzz deserves a raise. If they have done their homework and Buzz really is a top 10-15 paid coach I do not think they need to rush into anything, unless they feel they could lose him because of money.

This is reasonable and I can agree that it's hard to say without knowing the true #.  The heart of the matter is the subject of this thread.  Should they be PROACTIVE?  Yes.  They should approach Buzz and let him know how much he means to the program, and that even though there aren't any jobs they're afraid of losing him to, they want to reaffirm their commitment to him.  Then at the very least offer some non-cash contract sweetener.  Add an additional year to the rollover.  Increase the buyout clause (which he would obviously have to agree to as it's a two-way street).  Or build up Buzz' bunch.  I think any one of those things at the bare minimum, proactively done with a smile on their faces, would go a LONG way to mending any level of tension (whether it's level 1 or 10) and serve to keep Buzz here longer.  I don't think he wants to leave.  Just solidify it in good faith.

[StillWarriors]

This is reasonable and I can agree that it's hard to say without knowing the true #.  The heart of the matter is the subject of this thread.  Should they be PROACTIVE?  Yes.  They should approach Buzz and let him know how much he means to the program, and that even though there aren't any jobs they're afraid of losing him to, they want to reaffirm their commitment to him.  Then at the very least offer some non-cash contract sweetener.  Add an additional year to the rollover.  Increase the buyout clause (which he would obviously have to agree to as it's a two-way street).  Or build up Buzz' bunch.  I think any one of those things at the bare minimum, proactively done with a smile on their faces, would go a LONG way to mending any level of tension (whether it's level 1 or 10) and serve to keep Buzz here longer.  I don't think he wants to leave.  Just solidify it in good faith.

Bingo. Well said.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Few things:

#1 If you give Buzz a raise this year, do you give him a raise next year if they make the elite 8 again? How about if they make the sweet 16? I'm cool with MU overpaying, but how far is MU willing to go? There is a ceiling...

#2 Maybe a straight raise isn't the best way to go about this. Maybe a large donation or additional funding for Buzz's Bunch? Let Buzz take all of the PR credit (if he wants it). It shows some loyalty to Buzz, thanks him for a great season, and it makes it possible to give him a nice bump NEXT season if/when they have a good year.

#3 (this is a little crazy, but could be brilliant)

If MU really believes in him, make Buzz the highest paid coach in the country, but then he has to agree to an astronomical buyout (like 10million). Loyalty is a 2 way street. MU is not apt to fire a guy who they have to buy out (huge $$), and Buzz isn't likely to leave for another school if the buyout is so big. Gives Buzz and MU a lot of security.

[lab_warrior]

Cool discussion made by people with vague numbers, no experience hiring college coaches and no knowledge of this particular situation.

Relax - Buzz knows what he could command and LW/Pilarz know what they're willing to pay. This thread won't likely change either.

For the win.

[Dawson Rental]

C'mon Murray, pony up some of that bread and ear mark it for Buzz.

I got no bread, just oyster crackers.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So if he is being paid $2.5 million a year, his assistants are getting paid very well, his recruiting budget is second in the Big East and top 5 in the USA....how is the administration NOT being pro-active?

[Blackhat]

For comparison, Crean was given a 10 yr contract at 1.6 mil after 2 NITs and a first round NCAA exit the previous three years.  He must have been given a raise after another first round NCAA exit the next year as his salary the 2nd round loss year was 2.3 million before leaving.

[Silkk the Shaka]

So if he is being paid $2.5 million a year, his assistants are getting paid very well, his recruiting budget is second in the Big East and top 5 in the USA....how is the administration NOT being pro-active?

All about relationships, mang.  Be proactive in that department, even if it's a token gesture.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

#3 (this is a little crazy, but could be brilliant)

If MU really believes in him, make Buzz the highest paid coach in the country, but then he has to agree to an astronomical buyout (like 10million). Loyalty is a 2 way street. MU is not apt to fire a guy who they have to buy out (huge $$), and Buzz isn't likely to leave for another school if the buyout is so big. Gives Buzz and MU a lot of security.

I like the idea of these kinds of deals... something where you give Buzz the opportunity to make as much money as he wants at MU, but through commitment/performance. If, for example he wins a NC he is guaranteed to be highest paid coach in college BB for the following season.

Would be a cool structure incentivizing him to stay as the team here gets stronger... less tempting to jump to a Blue Blood or the like as the program progresses.

Some other ideas of cool/unique contract terms he might dig...
- Additional kickers like a Buzz Williams scholarship for 10 MU students he gets to select & define the criteria for? (similar story/background of overcoming obstacles, etc)
- Allow him to teach a course on leadership/faith/etc or whatever turns his crank (I get he may be tight on time but could be appealing to him to be more integrated in the culture of MU)

[ChicosBailBonds]

#3 (this is a little crazy, but could be brilliant)

If MU really believes in him, make Buzz the highest paid coach in the country, but then he has to agree to an astronomical buyout (like 10million). Loyalty is a 2 way street. MU is not apt to fire a guy who they have to buy out (huge $$), and Buzz isn't likely to leave for another school if the buyout is so big. Gives Buzz and MU a lot of security.

And if he tanks, then no one will go after him and MU is stuck with him and his buyout.  Why on earth would MU do this and hamstring themselves with a poison pill?  After 5 years, Ben Howland went to 3 Final Fours. In years 6 through 10 he never got to the second weekend, missed the tournament twice, all kinds of bad press, players transferring, players involved in off the court embarrassing situations, etc, etc.  Those buyouts work to protect a good thing, they also can give a coach and school no flexibility of things turn sour.  Not a smart play....or I will confirm, a little crazy. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

And if he tanks, then no one will go after him and MU is stuck with him and his buyout.  Why on earth would MU do this and hamstring themselves with a poison pill?  After 5 years, Ben Howland went to 3 Final Fours. In years 6 through 10 he never got to the second weekend, missed the tournament twice, all kinds of bad press, players transferring, players involved in off the court embarrassing situations, etc, etc.  Those buyouts work to protect a good thing, they also can give a coach and school no flexibility of things turn sour.  Not a smart play....or I will confirm, a little crazy. 

You're absolutely right, and that's the risk.

But, the flipside is that Buzz may bolt when (insert job) opens.

Obviously MU can't live in fear, but if they really believe Buzz is THE GUY, then maybe it's time to be a little radical about his contract.

What's a better value for MU:

Paying him 4mil per year and having a 10mil. buyout to ensure that he stays for a while

OR

Paying him 2.5-2.8mil per year and having a 3mil. buyout that a big time program could pay to get Buzz?

[ChicosBailBonds]

You're absolutely right, and that's the risk.

But, the flipside is that Buzz may bolt when (insert job) opens.

Obviously MU can't live in fear, but if they really believe Buzz is THE GUY, then maybe it's time to be a little radical about his contract.

What's a better value for MU:

Paying him 4mil per year and having a 10mil. buyout to ensure that he stays for a while

OR

Paying him 2.5-2.8mil per year and having a 3mil. buyout that a big time program could pay to get Buzz?

That is the risk and one the university has to be willing to take.   This happens with fans all the time.  Ravens fans freaking out that Flacco doesn't get paid or such and such power hitting first baseman, or the center on the favorite hockey team.  "We have to lock this guy up"....easy to say when it's not their money.

Look what's going on with Luongo's contract in Vancouver right now, or what I predict will happen with Jonathon Quick with the Kings.  They definitely went out and signed those guys to big money, long term deals and likely will be stuck, just as Vancouver is now...they literally can't trade their backup goalie.  The Angels with Albert will go through the same thing.  Coaching is a little different as "skills" of playing don't diminish, but I used the Howland example because here was a guy that set the world on fire and accomplished more his first 5 years at UCLA than Buzz or 99.9% of other coaches out there.  Now he's gone.  You just never know and the university has to be careful.

The current situation at Tennessee athletics is one that should not be ignored. They are swimming in debt because of multiple buyouts, poor showings on the field and, as a result, revenues coming up short.

http://www.t-g.com/story/1887459.html

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2013/01/28/Colleges/Tennessee.aspx

[4everwarriors]

So, the UCLA example is where this 5 year thing comes into play, hey?

[ChicosBailBonds]

So, the UCLA example is where this 5 year thing comes into play, hey?

 

In the UCLA case, its the inverse.  The last two UCLA coaches did great 1 through 5, then pretty terrible after that.  Lavin, Howland.

My five year rule is more around Mike Deane, Bruiser Flint, Gene Chizik, Chris Lowery (yes, one of the guys I thought we should talk to in 2008 along with Groce, Stallings, etc)