Aren't we really close to elite status?

[ErickJD08]

What else do you need really?

-We have historic coaching and players
-We have championships
-We have been in the tourney for the last decade basically
-If we win, we would have two final four appearances in the last 10 years
-Sweet 16 in the last 3 years

IF we win a championship (big IF but just saying), can't we be put up there?

[hairy worthen]

What else do you need really?

-We have historic coaching and players
-We have championships
-We have been in the tourney for the last decade basically
-If we win, we would have two final four appearances in the last 10 years
-Sweet 16 in the last 3 years

IF we win a championship (big IF but just saying), can't we be put up there?

We need our own fans to believe it.

[Goose]

hairy

Right on. While I think we are at elite status it is a fragile elite status. Unfortunately we do not have luxury of slip ups for a few years to remain elite at this point. Honestly I do think the supporters of MU have to believe 100% we are elite program. Seems to me that many seem afraid to walk the walk. We have a coach that walks the walk as does the team. Time for supporters to do same.

For the record, I think 99% of posters feel that way, my comments are based off conversations I have with other people. We have a cool coach, cool team and are becoming more elite with every win.

[BrewCity83]

Goose, I agree.  I think part of our deal is that we MU fans are in the minority in our own city and state, which is overwhelmingly Badger supporters.  I went out last night after the MU game to watch the late games and there were more loser Badger fans out than those of us sporting MU gear.  Over time, the masses make us feel small.  It's an uphill battle every day, but for once I think we are starting to finally get some traction.   

[Goose]

BrewCity

I think over last year our image has improved in Milwaukee, mainly due to success, style of play and cool uni's. I stated last year after WVU game that my kids (high school) friends were digging MU ball more than UW. I think younger generation is starting to think MU is cool again. Unfortunately the over 25 crowd is locked in UW red.

[hairy worthen]

BrewCity

I think over last year our image has improved in Milwaukee, mainly due to success, style of play and cool uni's. I stated last year after WVU game that my kids (high school) friends were digging MU ball more than UW. I think younger generation is starting to think MU is cool again. Unfortunately the over 25 crowd is locked in UW red.

Probably because your kids go to catholic high school. I asked my kid, (who goes to the same catholic high school) who most kids root for MU or WI.  They said overwhelmingly MU but there are still some WI fans.  I bet if you asked the same question to an arrowhead student they would say about 70-30 pro Wisconsin.

But I thibk your point is well taken, the younger kids are trending toward MU because of the reasons you mentioned, but at the end of the day a lot has to do with who their parents root for. My son is a big fan of the U. I told him that if he rooted for Miami last night during the game, i would ban him to the dark part of the basement.

[Buffaloboy]

What else do you need really?

-We have historic coaching and players
-We have championships
-We have been in the tourney for the last decade basically
-If we win, we would have two final four appearances in the last 10 years
-Sweet 16 in the last 3 years

IF we win a championship (big IF but just saying), can't we be put up there?

Yeah, need the championship then you probably would be considered elite. A championship 35+ years ago just doesn't count heavily in most people's eyes.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Marquette is an elite basketball powerhouse.  We, the fans and alumni, need to support that premise by our enthusiasm for the program.  We can accomplish this by our talk and dress.  How often do you wear Marquette gold other than during the basketball season?  Let's wear "gold" proudly though out the year, no matter where we are.  We all should be proud of Marquette and the accomplishments of our basketball program!  Ring out ahoya!!!

[Goose]

hairy


Agreed on Catholic high school, but I have noticed a shift. I workout at local Y and have heard many of the young guys there talking MU ball. These kids are there to play hoops and most are non traditional ball players. I think MU ball is cool to the inner city high school kids as well.

[tower912]

If you look at the record of MU since the turn of the century, then yes, MU is elite.    And I give Crean credit for what he did at MU, too.    And in that rating last year, MU was 17 (?) all time among all D1 schools.    MU is in the top 20 in all time tourney wins.   MU has been to 3 straight sweet 16's, along with 3 other programs generally acknowledged as elite or near-elite.  My measurables, MU is elite or near-elite.    Somehow, though, among the national punditry, MU is still considered a lower level stepping stone and a cute little-engine-that-could.     Picked 7th in the Big East. (28-8 in conference the last two years)  Most likely first round upset.    16th out of 16 teams left.   Worse than LaSalle.   Worse than FGCU.    If MU finishes the job and wins it all, the national punditry will not change the narrative.    A nice little hard working team.   That sadly isn't really in a major conference anymore.   That is the narrative.   And that is what is driving Buzz right now.  

[4everwarriors]

I think Buzz relates better to the the brothers than any coach here since Al. Therein lies the road to the FF and Championship Monday.

[Goose]

No doubt Buzz relates with inner city kids better than anyone since Al. You can see in how the guys talk about him that they trust him.

[Lennys Tap]

Marquette was elite from 1969 - 79. Outside of that period, solid but not elite. Buzz stays and we reach that status again.

[Farley36]

I don't think we are there yet but getting closer.  I agree also that we hardcore fans have to be the first to believe this and then start acting like it.  I work in the Twin Cities and a coworker of mine who is a Minnesota alum told me yesterday that there is no way Buzz would turn down Minnesota if they offered him their coaching job.  He said Buzz would make more money at Minnesota and that it was a better program.  I laughed and had to go down the list of things that make Marquette bordering on elite - Buzz's salary, basketball budget, facilities, and most of all the winning over the past decade.  My point being that people outside of the program are slow to learn what is going on with MU and until fans start to realize all the things that make MU a premier program, no one else will.

[4everwarriors]

Besides, the Gophers probably fly Sun Country Air.

[warriorfred]

I consider the "Elite" to be a pretty small group: Kentucky, North Carolina, Kansas, Indiana, and UCLA (although, I am questioning whether UCLA is Elite at this point - Southwest Airlines, really?).

I am undecided on Duke.  Their resume pre-Coach K is good, but definitely not Elite.  Let me know how they do 10 years after Coach K retires and I'll tell you if Duke is Elite.

After that, there are "near Elites," such as, Georgetown, Florida, Syracuse, Connecticut, etc...  Marquette fits into that near Elite group.  As long as an Elite job is open, the rumors will swirl around the Marquette coach.

[warriorfred]

I don't think we are there yet but getting closer.  I agree also that we hardcore fans have to be the first to believe this and then start acting like it.  I work in the Twin Cities and a coworker of mine who is a Minnesota alum told me yesterday that there is no way Buzz would turn down Minnesota if they offered him their coaching job.  He said Buzz would make more money at Minnesota and that it was a better program.  I laughed and had to go down the list of things that make Marquette bordering on elite - Buzz's salary, basketball budget, facilities, and most of all the winning over the past decade.  My point being that people outside of the program are slow to learn what is going on with MU and until fans start to realize all the things that make MU a premier program, no one else will.

I lived in St. Paul for 4 years, and Gopher fans are perhaps the most insular people I have ever met.  Hard to believe, but they are worse than Wisconsin fans in their knowledge of the outside world.  It took me a few days to understand that when Minnesotans said "the U," they were referring to the University of Minnesota.  I suppose that sums-up their perspective, there is only one University.

[We R Final Four]

Probably because your kids go to catholic high school. I asked my kid, (who goes to the same catholic high school) who most kids root for MU or WI.  They said overwhelmingly MU but there are still some WI fans.  I bet if you asked the same question to an arrowhead student they would say about 70-30 pro Wisconsin.

But I thibk your point is well taken, the younger kids are trending toward MU because of the reasons you mentioned, but at the end of the day a lot has to do with who their parents root for. My son is a big fan of the U. I told him that if he rooted for Miami last night during the game, i would ban him to the dark part of the basement.

Arrowhead is more like 90-10 Wisco.

[klyrish]

Marquette is an elite basketball powerhouse.  We, the fans and alumni, need to support that premise by our enthusiasm for the program.  We can accomplish this by our talk and dress.  How often do you wear Marquette gold other than during the basketball season?  Let's wear "gold" proudly though out the year, no matter where we are.  We all should be proud of Marquette and the accomplishments of our basketball program!  Ring out ahoya!!!

I literally wear MU stuff 3x a week. Every day if you count the hat but I don't as the hat can go with any outfit. Someone finally called me out and I had to admit that, yes, I still dress like a 19-year-old college student.

[4everwarriors]

If we were elite, it would say so on the back of our warm-ups.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I think Buzz relates better to the the brothers than any coach here since Al. Therein lies the road to the FF and Championship Monday.

hahahaha wow.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I lived in St. Paul for 4 years, and Gopher fans are perhaps the most insular people I have ever met.  Hard to believe, but they are worse than Wisconsin fans in their knowledge of the outside world.  It took me a few days to understand that when Minnesotans said "the U," they were referring to the University of Minnesota.  I suppose that sums-up their perspective, there is only one University.

I have lived in Minneapolis for all of my life except my 4 years at MU. Gopher fans are an interesting breed in some respects -- very negative and insecure about their basketball and especially their football programs. It is quite comical.  That said, I am big Gopher hockey fan and have always referred the university as the U of M, or the U for short. It is the University in Minnesota. I don't think that is weird at all. The school has a great backing for most sports, but especially hockey - the U is in a league of its own in terms of its hockey program. Now, fans that start thinking and talking like their football and basketball team should be in that same tier, it is comically naive.

I think Marquette is an elite program college basketball program, along with 10-12 other programs. It is a well recognized and respected basketball program in the Midwest and nationwide.  That said, I have had to defend the program several times to Gopher fans the past week with the Buzz talk (I am done having that conversation with people).  I don't think there is any chance Buzz leaves, but there isn't a snowballs chance in hell he goes to the U of M. But it has me wondering if it is the Gopher fans who are generally oblivious and naive or if MU is still widely considered a mid-upper tier program to most casual fans. I think it is a mixture of the two.

In any event, MU has put itself in a great position. They have a great coach, a great recruiting class coming in next year and are showing ZERO signs of slowing down.  It is a good time to be Warrior fan, ladies and gentlemen. Let's go get em' tomorrow! 

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Marquette is an elite basketball powerhouse.  We, the fans and alumni, need to support that premise by our enthusiasm for the program.  We can accomplish this by our talk and dress.  How often do you wear Marquette gold other than during the basketball season?  Let's wear "gold" proudly though out the year, no matter where we are.  We all should be proud of Marquette and the accomplishments of our basketball program!  Ring out ahoya!!!

What?

[The Equalizer]

I'm sure some won't like this, but three things keep us from being considered elite. And I'll make the case by comparing us to Kansas, one of those teams everyone agrees is elite.

1.  We have a tradition of putting coaches ahead of the program.

You can't strike up a conversation about Marquette with a casual fan without somehow Al McGuire and/or Buzz Williams being mentioned--and probably some Crean-hate for good measure.  Talk with a Kansas fan, and its Rock Hawk Jay Hawk and championships, and expectations of future success.  Bill Self may or may not come into the conversation at all, and dobutful Phog Allen is referenced.

2.  We have an overwhelming fear that our program cannot survive a coaching change.  

Elite teams don't fear coaching changes. If Bill Self leaves KU at the end of the season, the prevailing attiude of the KU fans will be that that they will go out and get another guy just as good and they'll continue to win. Period.

If Buzz left MU, the general attitude would be we took a huge step back, we'd never match what Buzz accomplished, nobody good would want to coach for MU, and we'll "slip back to St. Louis" levels. We'd then spend years debating how much blame Fr. Pilarz and Larry Williams deserve.  

And it is reflected in attitudes toward recruits as well.  When a top recruit signs with KU, its because the recruit wants to play for KU. Hence when Roy Williams leaves and Self replaces him, all four Williams recruits are on the roster in the fall for new coach Bill Self.  Here, it is widely believed that if Buzz left, it would destroy our recriting class.

3.  We relish being identified as an underdog.

By definition, underdog programs aren't elite. But our fans are conditioned to feel good when we "exceed expectations". We lose two players?  My gosh, we can't be better than 7th . . .in the confernece.  KU loses two players to the NBA lottery?  Their fans are disappointed that they are only picked 7th pre-season--on the NATIONAL polls.  

If we were truly an elite team, then our fans would be looking at the landscape of the future Big East and expecting and 18-0 season.  Not a team in that confrence we shouldn't beat.  Yet, mark my words, by November on this board will have people who project expecatations of 3rd or 4th place.  

We'll see people talking about how much improved Villanova and St. Johns will be. What great teams Georgetown and Creighton are. What a great coach Brad Stevens is.  How we will realize how much Cadougan meant to the program or how good Lockett really was. Xavier will be "back".

And based on all of this our own fans will be afraid to set championship expectations on Marquttte.

[Eldon]

I think Buzz relates better to the the brothers than any coach here since Al. Therein lies the road to the FF and Championship Monday.

So Gottlieb has been on Scoop this whole time