Play in games- Why does winner play 4 & 6 seed?

[TomW1365]

As I was filling out my brackets there were a few questions that came to mind and was hoping knowledgeable MUScoopers could answer these questions.
-How do they determine which teams have to play in the 1st round (play in games) and which seeds get to play the winners of the play in games?

-If Kentucky had been the last one in (instead of Middle Tennessee St) would they have to be in the play in slot?  It seems that the play in teams are all from mid major conferances.  

-The other thing I find curious is to why the top two #1 seeds (Louisville & Indiana) play the winner of the play in games and the other two don't...  Why is that?  It would make sense that all four #1 seeds play the winner of the four play in games.  

-One winner of the play in game plays a #4 seed in Kansas State and the other plays #6 Memphis.  Does the seed that the winners of the play in games change every year depending on final RPI/Sagarin?  

It seems like #6 Memphis gets a break playing the #11 seed (Middle TN St. and St Mary's).  You'd think that the 4 #16 seeds should be for the last 8 teams as determined by the selection committee.  What is the thought process behind doing it this other way?

[bradley center bat]

The last four of the at large pool play in the first round, it's not a play-in.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

The last four of the at large pool play in the first round, it's not a play-in.

yes it is

[muguru]

As I was filling out my brackets there were a few questions that came to mind and was hoping knowledgeable MUScoopers could answer these questions.
-How do they determine which teams have the play in games?

The play in game teams are the last 4 at large teams selected for the tournament. 

-If Kentucky had been the last one in (instead of Middle Tennessee St) would they have to be in the play in slot?  It seems that the play in teams are all from mid major conferances.

Yes, had Kentucky been the last at large team selected(according to the S-Curve) they would be in the play in game.  

-The other thing I find curious is to why the top two #1 seeds (Louisville & Indiana) play the winner of the play in games and the other two don't...  Why is that?  It would make sense that all four #1 seeds play the winner of the four play in games.  

UL is the #1 overall seed, and therefore plays the winner of tonight's play in game between the two 16 seeds. These two 16's were the lowest rated auto berth winners.

-One winner of the play in game plays a #4 seed in Kansas State and the other plays #6 Memphis.  Does the seed that the winners of the play in games change every year depending on final RPI/Sagarin?

Sometimes one of the play in game winners plays a 5 seed etc. If you remember, just last year, MU played BYU in a 3-14 game. Again, this is determined by the last four at large teams whom they play is determined by where teams are ranked on the S curve the committee uses.  

It seems like #6 Memphis gets a break playing the #11 seed (Middle TN St. and St Mary's).  You'd think that the 4 #16 seeds should be for the last 8 teams as determined by the selection committee.  What is the thought process behind doing it this other way?

Not quite sure what their thinking is behind this

[We R Final Four]

We were talking about this as well today.  The last 8 at large teams---who in theory are the last four in and the last four out---should play in the first round.  That would take care of the debate of who should have been in.  I don't like that a Conf. champ or a Conf. tourney champ has to play in the first round and win to prove that they were worthy of the top 64. 

[Goatherder]

When the NCAA added the play-in game, (a dumb idea IMO), it was supposed to be for the two weakest teams.  There was an unofficial rule that it would never be the two winners of the historically black conferences, the MEAC and the SWAC, against each other.  So it was almost always one of those two against a few of the other small conferences, the Metro Atlantic, etc. or some team like Liberty who had no business being there, but went on a run in their tournament.  

When the field was expanded to 68 with four play-in games, there was a debate about who should have to play in them.  If it went to the eight weakest conferences, pretty much the same ones would go there every year, including both the historically black ones, which sort of makes it pointless for their teams to win their conference if they never got to play in the "real" tournament.  An argument was made that the teams that got the last eight at-large bids, who actually benefited from the expansion, should have to play in those games instead.  The NCAA cut the baby in half, and put the four weakest automatic bids (this year Liberty, NC A+T, James Madison, and LIU) in two of the games, and the last four at-large teams in the other two, regardless of where they were seeded.  Usually, that should mean that the last four at-larges will be seeded 12, since that is where they usually are, and the winners would play a 5.  But it doesn't always work.  Last year, BYU was a 14 and ended up playing us, a 3.  That worked a little to our disadvantage, because BYU was probably originally seeded higher than that, but got moved so that they did not have to play on Sunday.  That meant a tougher scouting assignment for Marquette, and having to play what was probably a better team than a typical 14.  The system isn't perfect.  This year, the four at-larges are seeded 11 and 13.  It could be that they were seeded that way by the committee, or that they were moved up or down for other reasons, like keeping two Pac-12 teams apart from each other in the first round.  But usually, you should expect them to be about 12's.  

Not a perfect system, but some luck is going to play a part no matter what you do.  

[TomW1365]

That seems to make sense... Thanks for your explanation. 

[Eye]

I thought KU was 2 overall on the S curve. Aren't which 1 seeds play PIG winners determined by which two sites are closest to Dayton (reduce travel as much as possible)?