Stats from the ND #2 Game

[Henry Sugar]

I actually found the numbers to be somewhat surprising. The narrative in my head was that ND owned the offensive boards and the turnovers in the 2H killed MU.

Comments

Imagine how bad the 1H offensive efficiency for #mubb would have been if we take out the 17-4 start.

Turnover rate of 35% in the 1H and 25% for the game.

Despite the untimely 2H offensive rebounds allowed, that was the only area of the four factors Marquette won in that half!

Allowing 1.33 ppp in the 2H, huh?

Marquette loses yet again when outshooting their opponent and winning the offensive rebounding battle.

[GGGG]

Imagine how bad the 1H offensive efficiency for #mubb would have been if we take out the 17-4 start.

Turnover rate of 35% in the 1H and 25% for the game.

Or, could you imagine how *good* our offensive efficiency would have been if we wouldn't have pissed away so many possessions in the first half.  17-4 was great.  But take away some turnovers and it could have been more. 

MU had *five* turnovers before it even got to 17-4.  Just careless, empty possessions.  They could have had a 20 point lead at that point.

BTW, I thought as you did that ND controlled the offensive boards.  I think its because they controlled them during the key part in the second half when they made their final run.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I am entirely perplexed at 2 things:

#1 How/why does MU turn the ball over so much? Junior has been covered (ad nauseum), but how come as a team, MU is so bad? It's not like every guy on the team is a bad ball handler.

#2 How/why isn't MU better at defense and/or creating turnovers? They have good athletes. They play hard. They have a deep bench. The players are versatile. With those characteristics, I would think that they would be a good defensive team that likes to create turnovers and push the tempo.

I really have no idea from a personnel or game-planning standpoint how to solve these issues.

[MarquetteDano]

I am entirely perplexed at 2 things:

#1 How/why does MU turn the ball over so much? Junior has been covered (ad nauseum), but how come as a team, MU is so bad? It's not like every guy on the team is a bad ball handler.

Ball handling is only about 40% of our turnover problems.  This team likes to send telegrams out to where their passes are going.  And they also like to thread to needle in cases where it is too risky or the pass was not far enough away from the defender.

We are not the typical "bad passing" team in the sense that everyone goes one on one.  However, we are a bad passing team in the sense that the passes are poorly delivered.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Agree,Dano. Even I know where the pass is going. Too many attempts to thread the needle going inside or lazy one handed lobs around the perimeter.
I am always surprised teams don't jump our passing lanes even more as they are predictable.

[klyrish]

#1 How/why does MU turn the ball over so much? Junior has been covered (ad nauseum), but how come as a team, MU is so bad? It's not like every guy on the team is a bad ball handler.

Insanely stupid passes that, in addition to being dumb, are weak as hell.

[Lennys Tap]

#1 How/why does MU turn the ball over so much? Junior has been covered (ad nauseum), but how come as a team, MU is so bad? It's not like every guy on the team is a bad ball handler.

Other than Davante, Jamil and D Wilson who on the team doesn't have a kinda loose handle?

[Golden Avalanche]

Insanely stupid passes that, in addition to being dumb, are weak as hell.

Watch out, little miss pitbull brewcity77 will give you a weather forecast speaking about turnovers like that.

[brewcity77]

Agree,Dano. Even I know where the pass is going. Too many attempts to thread the needle going inside or lazy one handed lobs around the perimeter.
I am always surprised teams don't jump our passing lanes even more as they are predictable.

This is my issue. Especially when we're just passing around the perimeter. Too much telegraphing, too much deliberation. That's one of the reasons Louisville has a field day with us. Their focus on deflections messes perfectly with that lackadaisical passing. It's also one reason I really don't want to see VCU.

[Skatastrophy]

Watch out, little miss pitbull brewcity77 will give you a weather forecast speaking about turnovers like that.

Grow up.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Other than Davante, Jamil and D Wilson who on the team doesn't have a kinda loose handle?

Fair, but "kinda loose handle" from several players shouldn't make them HORRIBLE as a team with turnovers. It's should make them average, shouldn't it? Every team has some good and bad ball handlers.

The passing thing is an issue, but it's not like the current guys are ball hogs who don't want to pass. They are talented enough to make good passes. I guess sometimes they just don't.  

I don't really know what the fundamental cause is.

[4everwarriors]

The current team is not quick which has been a hallmark of MU teams in the past.

[jesmu84]

In terms of passing... I notice that nearly no players for MU even try a ball fake, head fake, body feint to get the defender slightly out of position to then complete a pass.

I also wonder if the restrictions on passing to Otule (slow pass, direct to him, etc) mentally extend to the other players and everyone ends up thinking they have to pass to teammates just like Otule.

[brewcity77]

I think the quickness is still there, but with guys like Lockett, Cadougan, and Gardner as such big parts of the offense, we definitely don't play as fast. It's a testament to Buzz that he can play his team at so many different paces (the Lazar team actually played slower than this) but I feel it's hard to really get a good turnover/transition game going when you are as deliberate as we are on offense.

[CTWarrior]

In terms of passing... I notice that nearly no players for MU even try a ball fake, head fake, body feint to get the defender slightly out of position to then complete a pass.

The one guy who does this effectively is Mayo.  He may dribble into a mess from time to time, but he does the appropriate misdirection before passing.

Our PGs aren't great passers.  Junior makes some great passes, but counters that with lots of no-look misses.  D Wilson does not dare attempt to pass to someone in the lane or heading to the lane or thinking about heading to the lane and generally dribbles around a little bit and then passes out to someone 30 feet from the basket and in no position to do anything.  But the passes are safe and not stolen.

[4everwarriors]

Then, we're no quick. Especially when 60% of the players on the floor at any one time are slow. As John Wooden so precisely put it, "Be quick, but don't hurry."

[RJax55]

I think the quickness is still there, but with guys like Lockett, Cadougan, and Gardner as such big parts of the offense, we definitely don't play as fast.

Disagree. 4ever's is right, MU lacks foot speed. The only guys with above-average quickness are Blue and D. Wilson. Now, the trade-off has been that MU is bigger and has more length than past squads.

[brewcity77]

Disagree. 4ever's is right, MU lacks foot speed. The only guys with above-average quickness are Blue and D. Wilson. Now, the trade-off has been that MU is bigger and has more length than past squads.

I think we have more than that. Mayo, Jamil, and even Ferguson have some quicks. But when Junior, Trent, Davante, and CO combine for 90 minutes, we are going to look slower than in years past.

[RJax55]

I think we have more than that. Mayo, Jamil, and even Ferguson have some quicks. But when Junior, Trent, Davante, and CO combine for 90 minutes, we are going to look slower than in years past.

Much, much slower. Too slow, IMO. I'm glad we have guys like Wilson and JJJ coming in next year. And to answer one of Guns questions above, that's why MU is not forcing turnovers at the same rate they did last year.

Also, I disagree on Jamil. His foot speed is average at best. Now, he's a plus athletically in other areas (leaping ability, body control, wingspan).

I agree on Mayo, but he's been a disappointment, so the minutes (and impact) aren't there.