Report: C7 to split in July, take Big East name with it

[Warriors10]

I don't think many will judge a conference on its three worst teams, but since that's what you want to do here let's see how the new BE's bottom three stack up in terms of  current RPI:

Big East - Providence (85), Seton Hall (115), DePaul (183)

ACC - Wake Forest (151), Clemson (154), VaTech (166)
Big 10 - Purdue (131), Northwestern (144), Penn State (184)
Big 12 - Texas (126), Texas Tech (222), TCU (228)
PAC 10 - Utah (179), Oregon State (188), Washington St. (190)
SEC - S. Carolina (201), Auburn (219), Miss. State (237)

In perspective, our dregs aren't all that bad, are they?

OH NO A LOT OF TEXAS TEAMS

[Dawson Rental]

I don't think many will judge a conference on its three worst teams, but since that's what you want to do here let's see how the new BE's bottom three stack up in terms of  current RPI:

Big East - Providence (85), Seton Hall (115), DePaul (183)

ACC - Wake Forest (151), Clemson (154), VaTech (166)
Big 10 - Purdue (131), Northwestern (144), Penn State (184)
Big 12 - Texas (126), Texas Tech (222), TCU (228)
PAC 10 - Utah (179), Oregon State (188), Washington St. (190)
SEC - S. Carolina (201), Auburn (219), Miss. State (237)

In perspective, our dregs aren't all that bad, are they?

Wow, Virginia Tech fires its coach, loses its best player to Florida, and loses its best recruit to Louisville, and they are still better than DePaul.  Yikes!  This doesn't take away from your overall point, though.

[MU82]

I don't think many will judge a conference on its three worst teams, but since that's what you want to do here let's see how the new BE's bottom three stack up in terms of  current RPI:

Big East - Providence (85), Seton Hall (115), DePaul (183)

ACC - Wake Forest (151), Clemson (154), VaTech (166)
Big 10 - Purdue (131), Northwestern (144), Penn State (184)
Big 12 - Texas (126), Texas Tech (222), TCU (228)
PAC 10 - Utah (179), Oregon State (188), Washington St. (190)
SEC - S. Carolina (201), Auburn (219), Miss. State (237)

In perspective, our dregs aren't all that bad, are they?

I like the positive thoughts, but weren't the RPIs of our bottom 3 helped immensely by games against the likes of Syracuse, Louisville, Pitt and UConn -- teams they won't get to play in the new league?

[MU82]

Short of everything remaining as it was a year ago, assuming all of this comes to fruition, could this have worked out any better for MU? Solid, old school conference, Big East, MSG...and moving to Fox who easily delivers the highest quality sports production is an added bonus.

Yep ... sub ND and Gonzaga for Dayton and St. Louis.

[Stronghold]

MU82 the bottom teams in those conferences also play the top dogs....it's not just Prov, SH, and DePaul.  Clemson plays Duke and Miami, Penn State plays Indiana, Michigan, Mich. St., TCU plays Kansas and K. State, etc.

[MU82]

My biggest reservation about this new conference is the competition. Let's be honest here...it's not all that strong. Specifically with the lower end schools...SH, DePaul, Providence etc. In the Big East, there were enough top level teams, that no one really noticed the bad teams per say. In this league, there's not that luxury. The bottom echelon teams will stand out more because there aren't any UL's or Syracuse's to cover those warts. I wouldn't mind it as much of they added Creighton, Xavier and Butler and stayed at 10, but when you start going to 12 and the conversations involve SLU,, Dayton etc..you're starting to walk a slippery slope and perception may be that of a "mid major" conference.

DePaul, Seton Hall and Providence have been good teams in the past. In fact, during some of their recent successful times, Marquette was lousy and fans of those schools could have bitched about having to carry a crappy Marquette team. Sports is cyclical. I like the comments about bringing the bottom of the league up. It won't be easy, but it can happen. The right coaches, the right commitment from the schools, a few recruits who turn out better than expected, and it can happen. It happened at Marquette, didn't it?

[MU82]

MU82 the bottom teams in those conferences also play the top dogs....it's not just Prov, SH, and DePaul.  Clemson plays Duke and Miami, Penn State plays Indiana, Michigan, Mich. St., TCU plays Kansas and K. State, etc.

I understand that. I'm just saying that playing those teams helps the Prov, SH and DeP numbers whereas next season that won't be the case. Those three teams could have the exact same records they have right now and have RPIs 50 or more points lower. Not to be a bummer, just making sure we're comparing apples to apples.

[4everwarriors]

Don't have to pay now to repaint the Bradley Center floor, aina?

[Benny B]

I tried to make this argument once and Bennie jumped all over me.

Not sure who this Bennie guy is, but he was right to do so.

Yes scheduling will get harder, but not for ND.  Everyone wants them.  Other top football schools will throw schools off their schedule to make room for them.  Michigan is upset that ND dropped them (not the other way around).

ND is the exception to every rule which is why everyone hates them.  And that is why football made $42 million last year versus $25 million for the typical B1G schools (and $15 to $17 for the typical ACC school).

Bingo was his name-o.


If anyone has any question as to why ND made the ACC decision, just ask an ND booster.  I understand that most of us would rather have a lobotomy than to do that, but that little tidbit of knowledge might be worth the price of admission.

[Pakuni]

I understand that. I'm just saying that playing those teams helps the Prov, SH and DeP numbers whereas next season that won't be the case. Those three teams could have the exact same records they have right now and have RPIs 50 or more points lower. Not to be a bummer, just making sure we're comparing apples to apples.

But they'll be playing G'Town twice (current RPI = 10), MU twice (current RPI =  13), Butler twice (current RPI = 29), etc.  And while they'll be losing SU, Louisville, etc. from their skeds, they'll also be losing Rutgers and South Florida.
Syracuse and Louisville are no doubt better than Xavier and Butler, but on the other side, Creighton and St. Louis are better than Rutgers and USF.
The highs may not be as high, but  the lows won't be as low.

In no way am I suggesting that this league will be as good as the 2005-12 Big East, but it'll be respectable and certainly well above the rank of mid major.

[Tums Festival]

This one?



I have a feeling that they'll do what most marketers do, put their stamp on it and create a new one.

Always liked the original logo better. Wonder if the the "new" Big East would go retro as a sign of getting back to the conference's basketball roots.

[keefe]

Always liked the original logo better. Wonder if the the "new" Big East would go retro as a sign of getting back to the conference's basketball roots.

Yea, sure.

[GGGG]

I realize their is irrational hatred for ND on this board so this will fall on deaf ears.

Yes scheduling will get harder, but not for ND.  Everyone wants them.  Other top football schools will throw schools off their schedule to make room for them.  Michigan is upset that ND dropped them (not the other way around).

ND is the exception to every rule which is why everyone hates them.  And that is why football made $42 million last year versus $25 million for the typical B1G schools (and $15 to $17 for the typical ACC school).

Where did you get the figure that Notre Dame made $42M off their television deal last year? 

And ND also wants access to bowl tie ins in non BCS years.  If they don't get access to decent bowl games, they lose money as well.

[GGGG]

Yep ... sub ND and Gonzaga for Dayton and St. Louis.

Gonzaga was never an option.  Keefe was wrong about that.

[Tugg Speedman]

Where did you get the figure that Notre Dame made $42M off their television deal last year?  

And ND also wants access to bowl tie ins in non BCS years.  If they don't get access to decent bowl games, they lose money as well.

Actually it is $43 million

http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/dollars/post/_/id/2556/texas-tops-in-football-profit-revenue

School   Rev.            Exp.            Profit
Texas   $103.8   $25.9   $77.9
Michigan   $85.2   $23.6   $61.6
Georgia   $75.0   $22.7   $52.3
Florida   $74.1   $23.1   $51.1
Alabama   $82.0   $36.9   $45.1
LSU           $68.8   $24.1   $44.8
Auburn   $77.2   $33.3   $43.8
Notre Dame   $69.0   $25.8   $43.2
Arkansas   $64.2   $24.3   $39.9
Nebraska   $55.1   $18.7   $36.4


See no. 9 just below ND, that is why you leave UW without thinking twice.  Also note 6 of the top 10 are SEC schools ... Maybe this is why only SEC schools wins the national Championship (7 straight and counting)

[GGGG]

You are not comparing apples and oranges. The 43 M is all revenue. Not just television. The 20 M you attribute to big ten is only television and exceeds what NBC pays Nd.

[Benny B]

Where did you get the figure that Notre Dame made $42M off their television deal last year? 

And ND also wants access to bowl tie ins in non BCS years.  If they don't get access to decent bowl games, they lose money as well.

How much do teams actually make from playing in a second tier bowl?

[Tugg Speedman]

And ND also wants access to bowl tie ins in non BCS years.  If they don't get access to decent bowl games, they lose money as well.

Correct.  That was the thinking when they jumped to the ACC last September.  They did not jump to the B1G because the B1G is too strong from a revenue standpoint.  The B1G would take ND in a heartbeat but only as a full football member.  ND did not want that as the revenue sharing with a conference would reduce their overall take of $43 million.  The ACC is weak enough from a football standpoint that they "sold" one of their bowl spots to ND in exchange for 5 conference games.  ACC is prestigious enough with its current makeup that ND did not feel these five games cheapened its football product.

Again that was September's thinking.  Since then ND played in the NC game, Kelly stayed and they have the nation's top recruiting class (or no. 2 depending on who you listen too).  All of a sudden that ACC bowl tie-in is not as important as ND is now in a position to earn it year after after.  

The ACC is good enough to continue with the five game deal.  BUT if UNC leaves this year and that starts a mass exodus, yes the ACC survives by picking up Cincy, uconn and whatever CUSA teams they need too.  Problem is this new look conference is too crappy for ND to commit 40% of its football schedule in exchange for a spot in the outback bowl in a down year.  

So, ND stays in the ACC until they have an exodus.  When they do either the ACC let's ND out of the football commitment and let's them stay as non-football or ND leaves. If they leave the C7 is where they will land.  That is why they are playing in the C7 next year ... Consider it a test drive of their backup plan.

Final word ... Football drives everything.  Every decision is made with football in mind.  So, a new look ACC does not let ND out of its football commitment.  The most valuable property the ACC now owns is its 5 games with ND.  They force that on ND to the point that ND leaves.

Or, to turn it around ... If the ACC excepts ND as a non-football member, that is devastating news for the C7.  Then Georgetown and Villanova beg their way into the ACC as non football members with the hope of upgrading their FCS teams to ACC football.

[Tugg Speedman]

How much do teams actually make from playing in a second tier bowl?

Moneywise, not that much.  Prestige-wise it is very important to play in a January bowl, any bowl game. For recruiting, for alumni (lots of them plan Christmas vacations around bowl game) and to stay relevant.

[StillAWarrior]

I don't think many will judge a conference on its three worst teams, but since that's what you want to do here let's see how the new BE's bottom three stack up in terms of  current RPI:

Big East - Providence (85), Seton Hall (115), DePaul (183)

ACC - Wake Forest (151), Clemson (154), VaTech (166)
Big 10 - Purdue (131), Northwestern (144), Penn State (184)
Big 12 - Texas (126), Texas Tech (222), TCU (228)
PAC 10 - Utah (179), Oregon State (188), Washington St. (190)
SEC - S. Carolina (201), Auburn (219), Miss. State (237)

In perspective, our dregs aren't all that bad, are they?

It's also worth mentioning that our current conference won't exist at this time next year.  People need to stop comparing the "new" Big East that we're going to, with a non-existent conference that isn't an option.  To that end, here are the three worst teams that would be in the conference next year if Marquette (and the others) had done nothing:

DePaul (183), Houston (205), SMU (218)


This is a great move by Marquette and the rest of the teams, and is far, far better than if they'd just stayed in the "old" Big East.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Actually it is $43 million

http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/dollars/post/_/id/2556/texas-tops-in-football-profit-revenue

School   Rev.            Exp.            Profit
Texas   $103.8   $25.9   $77.9
Michigan   $85.2   $23.6   $61.6
Georgia   $75.0   $22.7   $52.3
Florida   $74.1   $23.1   $51.1
Alabama   $82.0   $36.9   $45.1
LSU           $68.8   $24.1   $44.8
Auburn   $77.2   $33.3   $43.8
Notre Dame   $69.0   $25.8   $43.2
Arkansas   $64.2   $24.3   $39.9
Nebraska   $55.1   $18.7   $36.4


See no. 9 just below ND, that is why you leave UW without thinking twice.  Also note 6 of the top 10 are SEC schools ... Maybe this is why only SEC schools wins the national Championship (7 straight and counting)

My goodness, it is amazing what a cash cow these programs have, all excluded from taxation. Let's end the charade that these are amateur programs focused on education and start taxing them like we would any other profit-seeking enterprise.

[JTBMU7]

I understand that. I'm just saying that playing those teams helps the Prov, SH and DeP numbers whereas next season that won't be the case. Those three teams could have the exact same records they have right now and have RPIs 50 or more points lower. Not to be a bummer, just making sure we're comparing apples to apples.

Cuse, Pitt, Louisville and ND were leaving anyway. We're basically trading uconn, cincy, Memphis and temple for butler, creighton Xavier... And avoiding playing usf, Tulane, UFC, sum and Houston. At the end of the day a smaller league with a round robin will help the dregs of the league win more, which will improve records, ratings etc...

[StillAWarrior]

I like the positive thoughts, but weren't the RPIs of our bottom 3 helped immensely by games against the likes of Syracuse, Louisville, Pitt and UConn -- teams they won't get to play in the new league?

Doing my best Carnac the Magnificent impression...

Syracuse.  Louisville.  Pitt.

Question:  Name three teams they wouldn't get to play in the old league, either.

[mu03eng]

I'd like to refocus the discussion here, this is what has been accomplished/announced/implied/reported in the last 24 hours:
-C7 to form a 10 team league starting in the fall with C7+Butler+Xavier+Creighton
-No dead period where we have to play Tulane or SMU
-League to go to 12 teams in 2014 by adding two out of these four (SLU, Dayton, VCU, Richmond) with SLU and Dayton the primary
-League to be paid $40 million a year($4mil per school in first year, $3.3mil per school there after)
-Retain Big East name(and hopefully going to a refreshed version of the original BE logo)
-Conference tourney at MSG(most implied/least information of all items on this list)
-Get some funds out of the retained BE exit pool, but not full share as part of getting the name and early exit
Editted to add -Fox Sports contract presumably putting all Big East games on one of three stations, Fox, Fox Sports 1 or Fox Sports 2
Editted to add - Likely no longer having this god forsaken Time Warner partnership for those folks in Milwaukee

Anything I overlooked?  We could argue all day about Dayton, but if that is the worst thing about this whole deal I feel like we are upset about a dent on the golden egg we just shat out.

[NavinRJohnson]

I think you've got it. As I said last night, short of everything staying as it was before all this movement started, I don't think this cold have worked out any better for MU. Yo did forget that games will be broadcast on Fox, which is the best in the business as far as production goes.