Is it tough to win on the road?? Really??

[MUDPT]

Guru, does point differential matter at all?  So if MU was 3-6 and won their 3 games by 25 points each, but lost the 6 by 1 point; is that better or worse than a team that is 6-3 and wins each game by 1 point and loses the 3 by 25 each?

[The Equalizer]

I've engaged in a lot of stupid debates on this board. A lot.
But even I won't sink to your level of pedantic nonsense here.

My level?  You're the one posting the pedantic nonsense. I simply figured (successfully, as it turns out) that I could expose you by asking you to justify your view. I knew you had no possible justification--especially in light of the four reasons I provided.

Lets face it--if you could find four comments from the original post that show that the context of the article was about every D1 team's road record, you would have simply done so.  

You are setting a standard that is impossible for them to meet then.  Because for them to be "shock the world" type wins in your eyes, MU has to be pretty bad.  (As your examples show...)  And when they have a quality road win, you simply say "I expected them to win."

I guess if a win against the eventual national champion isn't good enough, then I simply don't know what is.

 

The issue comes clear when you compare us to other teams in the league:

Georgtown is 14-1 at home (.933), and 5-2 on the road (.556)
Syracuse is 16-1 at home (.941) and 6-3 on the road (.667)
Louisville is 13-1 at home (.928) and 6-3 on the road (.667)
ND is 15-2 at home (.882) and 4-3 on the road (.571)

MU is 14-0 at home (1.000) at home and 3-6 (.333) on the road.

I think the obsevation is in the lost opportunity--we've been better at home, but because of our poor road record (vis a vis comparable teams) we're not viewed as being at the same level as Georgetown, Louisville or Syracuse.

[club cheezes VIP lounge]

Also, I reiterate, I'd love to see the comparison of MU's quality of road
opponents, vs. Duke's, or MSU's, or IU's, or Gonzaga's, or everyone elses.
Not everyone's road opponents are equal.  

RPI top 30 road games vs RPI top 15 (2012-13)

Duke - 1 (lost to Miami)
Miami - 0
New Mexico - 2 (lost to UNLV, beat Colorado St)
Florida - 1 (loss to Arizona)
Kansas - 0
Indiana - 1 (beat Michigan St)
Michigan St - 2 (loss to Miami, loss to Indiana)
Louisville - 1 (loss to Georgetown)
Michigan - 2 (loss to Indiana, loss to Michigan St)
Gonzaga - 0
Arizona - 0
Syracuse - 1 (beat Louisville)
Georgetown -1 (beat Syracuse)
UNLV - 2 (lost to New Mexico, loss to Colorado St)
Colorado St - 2 (loss to New Mexico, loss to UNLV)
Minnesota - 2 (loss to Indiana, loss to Michigan St)
Marquette - 3 (loss to Florida, loss to Louisville, loss to Georgetown)
Memphis -  0
Oklahoma - 1 (loss to Kansas)
Kansas State - 1 (loss to Kansas)
North Carolina - 3 (loss to Duke, loss to Miami, loss to Indiana)
Belmont - 1 (loss to Kansas)
Ohio St - 3 (loss to Duke, loss to Michigan St, loss to Michigan)
Wisconsin - 2 (loss to Florida, beat Indiana)
North Carolina St - 2 (loss to Duke, loss to Michigan)
Connecticut - 0
Oklahoma St - 1 (beat Kansas)
Middle Tennessee - 0
Colorado - 2 (loss to Kansas, loss to Arizona)
Wichita St - 0

and #33 Illinois (because they were included in the original post) - 2 (lost to Michigan St, beat Gonzaga)
 

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

The issue comes clear when you compare us to other teams in the league:

Georgtown is 14-1 at home (.933), and 5-2 on the road (.556)
Syracuse is 16-1 at home (.941) and 6-3 on the road (.667)
Louisville is 13-1 at home (.928) and 6-3 on the road (.667)
ND is 15-2 at home (.882) and 4-3 on the road (.571)

MU is 14-0 at home (1.000) at home and 3-6 (.333) on the road.

I think the obsevation is in the lost opportunity--we've been better at home, but because of our poor road record (vis a vis comparable teams) we're not viewed as being at the same level as Georgetown, Louisville or Syracuse.

Do you shift the goalposts everytime you post?  muguru specifically said that MU doesn't seem to have "shock the world" road victories.  Then you show the above which doesn't address his "point" at all.

[lab_warrior]

RPI top 30 road games vs RPI top 15 (2012-13)

Duke - 1 (lost to Miami)
Miami - 0
New Mexico - 2 (lost to UNLV, beat Colorado St)
Florida - 1 (loss to Arizona)
Kansas - 0
Indiana - 1 (beat Michigan St)
Michigan St - 2 (loss to Miami, loss to Indiana)
Louisville - 1 (loss to Georgetown)
Michigan - 2 (loss to Indiana, loss to Michigan St)
Gonzaga - 0
Arizona - 0
Syracuse - 1 (beat Louisville)
Georgetown -1 (beat Syracuse)
UNLV - 2 (lost to New Mexico, loss to Colorado St)
Colorado St - 2 (loss to New Mexico, loss to UNLV)
Minnesota - 2 (loss to Indiana, loss to Michigan St)
Marquette - 3 (loss to Florida, loss to Louisville, loss to Georgetown)
Memphis -  0
Oklahoma - 1 (loss to Kansas)
Kansas State - 1 (loss to Kansas)
North Carolina - 3 (loss to Duke, loss to Miami, loss to Indiana)
Belmont - 1 (loss to Kansas)
Ohio St - 3 (loss to Duke, loss to Michigan St, loss to Michigan)
Wisconsin - 2 (loss to Florida, beat Indiana)
North Carolina St - 2 (loss to Duke, loss to Michigan)
Connecticut - 0
Oklahoma St - 1 (beat Kansas)
Middle Tennessee - 0
Colorado - 2 (loss to Kansas, loss to Arizona)
Wichita St - 0

and #33 Illinois (because they were included in the original post) - 2 (lost to Michigan St, beat Gonzaga)
 

Awesome work.  That's a whole lot of losses, for teams who totally should
win on the road, since there is no empirical difference between road
games and home games, even among the ELITES, you know, because the
baskets are the same height, or some BS.  

Although I'm sure there's room on the Twister pad for folks to
contort this absurd argument some more.  Like Johnny from The Wire,
people be equivocatin' like a motherf***er.  

[lab_warrior]

Georgtown is 14-1 at home (.933) > 5-2 on the road (.556)
Syracuse is 16-1 at home (.941) > 6-3 on the road (.667)
Louisville is 13-1 at home (.928) > 6-3 on the road (.667)
ND is 15-2 at home (.882) >on the road (.571)

MU is 14-0 at home (1.000) > (.333) on the road.

Playing on the road is not equal to playing at home.

Although we should probably scour through these games
for teams records in "shock the world" games, whatever
that subjective garbage means. 

[wardle2wade]

Our next two (and final) road games are Rutgers and St. John's.  we should finish 5-6.

Other teams like Miami (who just lost badly at Wake Forest) still have at Duke and duke still has at UNC.  Cuse is still at GU and so on.

My point is repeat this study when the regular season ends March 10 and I'll bet we don't look as bad.

This.  Was just going to post the same point.

[statnik]

Our next two (and final) road games are Rutgers and St. John's.  we should finish 5-6.

Other teams like Miami (who just lost badly at Wake Forest) still have at Duke and duke still has at UNC.  Cuse is still at GU and so on.

My point is repeat this study when the regular season ends March 10 and I'll bet we don't look as bad.

I don't think we beat St. John's, they are on par with Villanova, and the only decent to good team we have beat on the road was Pittsburgh (which we needed a poor performance by them and an overtime to do).  We haven't even easily taken care of many of our opponents at home (it's been a struggle, but a successful one).

[The Equalizer]

Playing on the road is not equal to playing at home.

Although we should probably scour through these games
for teams records in "shock the world" games, whatever
that subjective garbage means. 

The stats were intended to show that we are better at home than Syracuse, Lousville, Georgetown, Pitt, and ND.

While On the road, Syracuse & Louisvllle have won 2/3 of their road games.
Pitt, ND and Georgetown have won at least 50%.   
We've only won 1/3.

The question is how the same team that is better at home than SU, UL, GU, Pitt and ND at their respective homes, be so much worse on the road than SU, UL, GU, Pitt and ND on the road.

I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp.  I'm not asking why MU on the road isn't as good as MU at home.  I'm asking why MU on the road is so much worse than similar teams on the road.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The stats were intended to show that we are better at home than Syracuse, Lousville, Georgetown, Pitt, and ND.

While On the road, Syracuse & Louisvllle have won 2/3 of their road games.
Pitt, ND and Georgetown have won at least 50%.   
We've only won 1/3.

The question is how the same team that is better at home than SU, UL, GU, Pitt and ND at their respective homes, be so much worse on the road than SU, UL, GU, Pitt and ND on the road.

I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp.  I'm not asking why MU on the road isn't as good as MU at home.  I'm asking why MU on the road is so much worse than similar teams on the road.

I think you are getting into a semantics fight.

I think everybody would agree that MU's current team is not a great road team.

However, this thread started with the statement:

In conclusion, it's fair to say EVERY team in the country will lose a road game or two, that's a given, but to say "it's hard to win on the road" I do not and never will believe is an accurate statement.

And from there, it was off to the races.

CONCLUSION: It is hard to win on the road, AND MU is not a very good road team this season.

Boom. Roasted.

[CTWarrior]

Home court is supposed to be worth about 3 1/2 points, so the average team should do 7 points better at home than on the road.

In our mirror games, we did significantly better against both South Florida & Seton Hall on the road, we beat Georgetown by 1 at home and lost by 8 on the road (a 9 point difference which is about right) and beat Pitt by 10 at home and 7 (in OT) on the road, again a difference about what you'd expect.  I get the feeling due to the matchups and style of play that there isn't a court on Earth on which would have beaten either Louisville or Florida, and the other three conference road losses are certainly understandable and within the expected outcome range for us.  

So our road woes boil down to the wretched loss to UWGB, which is of course inexcusable.  But I'm not thinking we are a particularly bad road team because of one bad game.

[chapman]

ESPN just showed that Syracuse is 1-4 in its last 5 Big East road games.  What the hell is going on with them?  It's not that hard to win on the road!  Marquette is 2-3 and they're a dreadful road team. 

[tower912]

Cuz Boeheim can't coach and needs better players and they need a new point guard and good teams win on the road and blahbityblahbityblahbity