Is it tough to win on the road?? Really??

[muguru]

I hear/see fans proclaim this all the time, that it's tough to win on the road. There's nothing that gets my ire up more than that. Why?? Basketball is basketball...the game is the same no matter where you play it. You pass, dribble and shoot whether that's in Milwaukee at the Bradley Center or at the Pavilion in Philadelphia. I have heard many athletes thru the years actually say they'd almost prefer to play on the road, because you have fewer distractions. So to test this theory, I'm going to compare the road records of teams currently ahead of MU in the RPI(using Warren Nolan). For purposes of this study, I'm throwing out "mid majors" like Gonzaga, New Mexico, etc because I think we'd all agree they aren't playing the competition on the road, like a team from one of the 6 major conferences are.

Duke-4-3
Miami-10-2
Kansas-6-2
Florida-7-4
Indiana-6-1
Michigan State-6-3
Louisville-6-3
Michigan-4-4
Arizona-7-2
Syracuse-5-3
Georgetown-6-2
Minnesota-3-6
MU-3-6

One can clearly see, there's a significant difference between the road records of teams ahead of MU in the RPI(with the exception of Minnesota), and MU's road record. Okay someone is going to pipe up and say "not a fair comparison, those are the elite of the elite", which thereby makes my point...if MU ever wants to become elite, and become one of them, they need to be better on the road. But, to pacify that crowd...I will expand the road records even further. Let's take the next ten teams AFTER MU in the RPI and once again throwing out mid majors(Butler, etc), and see how they have done on the road, shall we??

Oklahoma-5-5
Kansas State-6-2
North Carolina-4-6
Ohio State-3-5
Wisconsin-4-5
NC State-2-6
Uconn-4-3
Oklahoma State-4-4
Colorado-4-6
Illinois-5-3


Can anyone see the disparity here?? I studied 23 teams for this exercise and of those that I studied, only ONE team(NC State) has a worse winning % on the road than does MU, and one other, Minnesota has the same winning %. 12 of the 23, are above .500 on the road, while 3 are at exactly .500. And if I were to include Gonzaga, Butler, SD State, New Mexico etc, the disparity would be even greater.

In conclusion, it's fair to say EVERY team in the country will lose a road game or two, that's a given, but to say "it's hard to win on the road" I do not and never will believe is an accurate statement. MU makes it hard for THEM to win on the road, but for other teams in the country, it doesn't seem to be that big of a hindrance.

[Marqevans]

Have you ever seen Gardner miss 2 free throws as badly as he did yesterday at home?

[ATWizJr]

Yes. Especially if you are unprepared to face the press, are not focused on the job at hand, and are looking ahead to Syracuse. 

[real chili 83]

Appreciate the research.

On the premise that vegas knows what they are doing....why do home teams get such a strong bias.  Consider how strong MU is at home.  Several teams have come to our court favored, and went home with their tail between their legs.  

The MU home record doesn't completely refute your point.  However, it does need to be added to the conversation on analyzing MU as a whole.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

Perhaps the conclusion that you should draw is that Marquette isn't as good as you think they are, but they have a significant home court advantage that boosts their RPI.

[tower912]

Perhaps you should just abandon all hope and stare endlessly into the abyss.  
Actually, guru, I have to give you your props.   I think you are intentionally staking out extreme positions to help everyone else keep the loss in perspective and work through their frustrations.    Thanks for jumping on that grenade for the rest of us.   

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

Perhaps you should just abandon all hope and stare endlessly into the abyss. 

That too.

[Tugg Speedman]

Our next two (and final) road games are Rutgers and St. John's.  we should finish 5-6.

Other teams like Miami (who just lost badly at Wake Forest) still have at Duke and duke still has at UNC.  Cuse is still at GU and so on.

My point is repeat this study when the regular season ends March 10 and I'll bet we don't look as bad.

[Golden Avalanche]

I don't think it's all that difficult to win on the road this season. Far too much mediocrity around the country allows it to be a more attainable achievement. Listening to a gambling podcast last week they mentioned that points received from home court advantage have declined the last four years consecutively.

The difference is play. Evidence is in and it shows MU simply doesn't pack it's game well. People got pissy Tuesday when I pointed out it was laughable to think MU could win title when they play this badly on the road. For a team that bounces back remarkably well from a loss it's stupefying how poor they perform away from their cozy confines.

[muguru]

Appreciate the research.

On the premise that vegas knows what they are doing....why do home teams get such a strong bias.  Consider how strong MU is at home.  Several teams have come to our court favored, and went home with their tail between their legs.  

The MU home record doesn't completely refute your point.  However, it does need to be added to the conversation on analyzing MU as a whole.

Your point is a valid one, however it only further strengthens my point...Let's say MU wins the UWGB, Cincy and Nova games on the road(all games I think we can logically conclude they should have won), all of a sudden, they are 6-3 on the road instead of 3-6. How high would MU be ranked then?? What would their RPI be?? What kind of NCAA seed would they be looking at?? They'd be essentially on cruise control to win the BE title. There's a fine line....but one that if MU for whatever reason didn't go brain dead on the road, and do things that they don't do at home, could have them looking even a whole lot better.

I mean the courts are the same length, the rims the same height(channeling Hoosiers here), the teams presses are applied the same, it really doesn't make any sense why MU should look DRASTICALLY different at home as opposed to on the road. Ok, crowd noise...that's about it, but that shouldn't make you throw a bad pass, or take a bad shot, or turn the ball over at an alarming rate, or go 6+ minutes without scoring. If as Buzz has often said "we are who we are", shouldn't you be "who you are" no matter where you play(with the understanding that almost every team is going to have a game or two where they just don't have it)??

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Perhaps the conclusion that you should draw is that Marquette isn't as good as you think they are, but they have a significant home court advantage that boosts their RPI.

I don't know. The NCAA tournament is going to be sooo wide open. Sometimes I really wonder if people on here actually watch any college hoops besides most MU games and the very end of great matchups.

There just are not many good teams. There may be 5 or 6 very good teams, but then there about 25 teams that are right there, and another 15 or so that are not too far off. Marquette may not be as good as we were last year, but they are definitely one of the top 20 teams in the country.  16-1 in non-away games. Last I checked there are no true road games in the tournament.

The squad has its flaws, but it is right there. There are only a handful of teams that MU would have little chance to beat on a neutral court.  I find it highly unlikely we will see that team in the first weekend with a seed in the 4-7 range. MU is nowhere near as pretty to watch this year as years past, but truth is, they're in 2nd place in the 2nd best conference in the country and belong.  Time for everyone to accept it.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

Your point is a valid one, however it only further strengthens my point...Let's say MU wins the UWGB, Cincy and Nova games on the road(all games I think we can logically conclude they should have won), all of a sudden, they are 6-3 on the road instead of 3-6. How high would MU be ranked then?? What would their RPI be?? What kind of NCAA seed would they be looking at?? They'd be essentially on cruise control to win the BE title. There's a fine line....but one that if MU for whatever reason didn't go brain dead on the road, and do things that they don't do at home, could have them looking even a whole lot better.

I mean the courts are the same length, the rims the same height(channeling Hoosiers here), the teams presses are applied the same, it really doesn't make any sense why MU should look DRASTICALLY different at home as opposed to on the road. Ok, crowd noise...that's about it, but that shouldn't make you throw a bad pass, or take a bad shot, or turn the ball over at an alarming rate, or go 6+ minutes without scoring. If as Buzz has often said "we are who we are", shouldn't you be "who you are" no matter where you play(with the understanding that almost every team is going to have a game or two where they just don't have it)??

Why *should* they have won against UWGB, Cincy or Nova?

But anyways, my impressions about home court advantage is that it gives more positives to the home team than negatives to the road team.  Home crowds give positive energy to their team.

[lab_warrior]

You might want to compare home and road records, if your hypothesis is
that winning road games isn't any more or less difficult than home games.

All of these teams have SIGNIFICANTLY better win
%ages with their home schedules.  If winning on the road was so easy, or
any different, like you claim, their home records would not be as great, right?

If winning on the road is so easy, why are these teams' home records so
gaudy?  Only 1 team with more than 2 losses, and 4 undefeated teams.

Also, what are the RPIs, SOSs of the road games that these teams
have played, relative to the home games?  I'll bet that the road games
feature much more difficult opponents than the cupcake-palooza this list
played at home earlier in the season.

I think debunking or bunking the "playing on the road is tough" axiom is
going to take a bit more analysis than just showing us the top 30ish RPI
teams road records.
 

        road             home
---------------------------------
Duke-4-3               19-0
Miami-10-2            12-4
Kansas-6-2            17-2
Florida-7-4             15-0
Indiana-6-1            18-2
Michigan State-6-3  14-1   
Louisville-6-3         13-1
Michigan-4-4          14-0
Arizona-7-2           13-2
Syracuse-5-3         16-1
Georgetown-6-2     14-1
Minnesota-3-6        13-2
MU-3-6           14-0

Oklahoma-5-5        10-2
Kansas State-6-2    14-1
North Carolina-4-6  13-1
Ohio State-3-5       14-2
Wisconsin-4-5        14-2
NC State-2-6         14-1
Uconn-4-3             12-2
Oklahoma State-4-4 13-2 
Colorado-4-6         11-2
Illinois-5-3            12-4

[club cheezes VIP lounge]

from the "notes" section in yesterday's yahoo recap

"Since the 2008-09 season when Buzz Williams took over, Marquette has posted a 21-21 record in Big East road games. Only Syracuse (30-13), Louisville (24-19) and Pittsburgh (23-20) have better road marks during that time span."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/villanova-60-marquette-56-014120757--ncaab.html

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

from the "notes" section in yesterday's yahoo recap

"Since the 2008-09 season when Buzz Williams took over, Marquette has posted a 21-21 record in Big East road games. Only Syracuse (30-13), Louisville (24-19) and Pittsburgh (23-20) have better road marks during that time span."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/villanova-60-marquette-56-014120757--ncaab.html

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. Case closed.

[4everwarriors]

That's right. They have to bus to O'Hare and wait at the carousel for their luggage and sleep in a No Tell Motel eatin' Swanson TV dinners.

[lab_warrior]

from the "notes" section in yesterday's yahoo recap

"Since the 2008-09 season when Buzz Williams took over, Marquette has posted a 21-21 record in Big East road games. Only Syracuse (30-13), Louisville (24-19) and Pittsburgh (23-20) have better road marks during that time span."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/villanova-60-marquette-56-014120757--ncaab.html

Again, now is not the time for facts!

It's time for misplaced, irrational, foaming at the mouth rage,
doom monkey screeching and feces throwing, and hopeless
dispair, because we lost a basketball game. 

[Tugg Speedman]

Again, now is not the time for facts!

It's time for misplaced, irrational, foaming at the mouth rage,
doom monkey screeching and feces throwing, and hopeless
dispair, because we lost a basketball game. 

+1,000,000,000,000
(The typical Dylan Flood line)

[ChicosBailBonds]

Indiana has the best road record in the country?  I thought strange since they can't win away from home. 

And yes, it is definitely harder to win away from home.  MU has done a good job on the road the last decade or so.

[The Equalizer]

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. Case closed.

+1,000,000,000,000
(The typical Dylan Flood line)

Again, now is not the time for facts!

It's time for misplaced, irrational, foaming at the mouth rage,
doom monkey screeching and feces throwing, and hopeless
dispair, because we lost a basketball game.  

The original post compared Marquette's road record to this year's other high/RPI potential NCAA teams.  In other words, teams similar to us.

Someone attempted to refute it by posting a 5-year comparision among Big East teams--changing both the timeframe (one year vs five) and the nature of the teams being comparable (bringing in BE bottom feeders--teams nothing at all like us)

Honestly, does a better five-year road record than DePaul, Rutgers, USF, St. Johns, Providence, Seton Hall change anything about muguru's original point about MU compared to this year's highly rated teams?

The two aren't even REMOTELY comparable.   Yet you cheer him on?

[muguru]

from the "notes" section in yesterday's yahoo recap

"Since the 2008-09 season when Buzz Williams took over, Marquette has posted a 21-21 record in Big East road games. Only Syracuse (30-13), Louisville (24-19) and Pittsburgh (23-20) have better road marks during that time span."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/villanova-60-marquette-56-014120757--ncaab.html

Interesting....Syracuse is 17 games over .500 on the road in that span, while Louisville is 5 over, and Pittsburgh 3....Now which three teams since Buzz has been there have TYPICALLY finished at the top of the conference standings(most specifically UL and Syracuse), coincidence? I think not. When those teams have had a chance to take something(ie a BE title) and have played a late season road game that could get them there, more often than not, I'll bet they have gotten the job done. This only proves my case further.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

Honestly, does a better five-year road record than DePaul, Rutgers, USF, St. Johns, Providence, Seton Hall change anything about muguru's original point about MU compared to this year's highly rated teams?

That wasn't his original point.  His original point was that it really isn't that hard to win on the road, used one year's worth of evidence to back it up, and concluded that MU is a poor road team because of it.  All club cheezes did is expand the year's in question to refute his conclusion.

[real chili 83]

from the "notes" section in yesterday's yahoo recap

"Since the 2008-09 season when Buzz Williams took over, Marquette has posted a 21-21 record in Big East road games. Only Syracuse (30-13), Louisville (24-19) and Pittsburgh (23-20) have better road marks during that time span."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/villanova-60-marquette-56-014120757--ncaab.html

Great stats.

The fact is we have a few good road wins too.

At the end of the day, it is our body of work that counts.

When we win our first two games in the dance, we will be sweet 16 again.  All the other BS that we all moan and B about during the season will be trivial, and forgotten about.  Instead, we will complain about not making the elite 8....and Aaron Durley.  [/color]

[JTBMU7]

All but one of our road losses this year have come to tournament teams, assuming nova and cincy are in, which it seems like they are.

[Pakuni]

The original post compared Marquette's road record to this year's other high/RPI potential NCAA teams.  In other words, teams similar to us.

Someone attempted to refute it by posting a 5-year comparision among Big East teams--changing both the timeframe (one year vs five) and the nature of the teams being comparable (bringing in BE bottom feeders--teams nothing at all like us)

Honestly, does a better five-year road record than DePaul, Rutgers, USF, St. Johns, Providence, Seton Hall change anything about muguru's original point about MU compared to this year's highly rated teams?

The two aren't even REMOTELY comparable.   Yet you cheer him on?

So, a partial season analysis is more valuable than that of five full seasons when considering the difficulty (or lack thereof) of winning on the road? What exactly is the value in looking at just one partial season? Are you and guru suggesting that winning on the road magically became easier in 2012-13?

MU also owns a better five-year road record than UConn, WVU, Georgetown, Villanova and Notre Dame, but you oddly saw fit to leave those teams out of the discussion. Can't imagine why you'd do that.