Vander Blue vs. Michael Snaer

[Silkk the Shaka]

Excuse me for not seeing Yogi on the post.  I stand by that most were three stars.

Of the current team, 2 are five star players...last year it was one....care for me to pull up threads here from the last few years where you and others kept saying the talent wasn't good, overrated, kids wouldn't develop and the coach would be fired as a result. Happy to do that...it was comical then and more comical now.  Even more comical how players "aren't developed" there.  

Amazing to me the #1 team in the country only has two Five star players while Duke, UNC, Kentucky, etc, etc with far more are doing worse. A majority of the team is three star designations.  Must be the coaching?  

Hulls...three stars   http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/basketball/recruiting/player-Jordan-Hulls-82901
Sheehey...three stars   http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/basketball/recruiting/player-Will-Sheehey-100760
Oladipo...three stars   http://rivals.yahoo.com/basketballrecruiting/basketball/recruiting/player-Victor-Oladipo-84192
Etherington...three stars   http://rivals.yahoo.com/indiana/basketball/recruiting/player-Austin-Etherington-96668
Abell...three stars   http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Remy-Abell-100909
Jurkin....three stars   http://rivals.yahoo.com/indiana/basketball/recruiting/player-Peter-Jurkin-98671
Etc

Creek, a 4 star player playing with 2 knees blown out in two years...effectively a 2 or 3 star player now. 

Sure, go ahead and cherry pick one rating service.  And who cares about players like Etherington & Jurkin - they don't play.

Of the 6 players getting heavy minutes, Zeller was #10 RSCI & McDonald's AA, Ferrell was #25 RSCI & McDonald's AA, Watford was #45 RSCI, Jordan Hulls was #74 RSCI, Oladipo & Sheehy were 3*.  That's 2/6 major rotation players at 3*.  Both of those players developed very nicely.  However, 2/6 is not MOST.

Three other players get minutes that are even worth mentioning (they play Juan Anderson/Steve Taylor/Derrick Wilson type minutes).  Jeremy Hollowell was #45 RSCI, Remy Abell was a 3*, and Creek was #58 RSCI but like you said he has had some horrible luck and will unfortunatlely never be the same player.  So 1/3 minor rotation players were 3*, and one that plays the least is a hard luck injury case.

In sum, of the nine rotation players, 2 were 5* burger boys, 3 more were top 75, 2 were 3* players way outplaying their ranking that fit your "developed" criteria, another was a 3* that is a role player, another was a top 75 injury case that gets fringe minutes.

How in the world does that fit your narrative that Crean is doing it with Zeller and MOSTLY 3* players?  I agree with you wholeheartedly about Oladipo & Sheehy.  Like I said, one would get my vote for national POY, the other for conference 6th man of the year.  That's very nice player development from those two players.  Just leave it at that, no need to exaggerate.

[ChicosBailBonds]

He rebounds better because of height and his role, pound for pound I'd still go Vander. Same thing for Blocks. As for turnovers, it's easy not to turn the ball over when you don't have to create your own shot or opportunities for others. There is nothing in the game of Basketball that freakin Evans does better than Blue.

I wouldn't say nothing, that's a bit too harsh.  It's the only rating system of all players I am aware of.  If there are other ratings systems, that would be great if someone could post them.

I did, however, find a juniors rankings of the top 100 (not all players) juniors and Vander is at 51 while Evans is not ranked.  That's through Feb 14th.  At 51, that would mean he isn't going to get drafted this year.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I used one recruiting service so you wouldn't accuse me of that...cherry picking.  If I truly wanted to cherry pick, some of the 5 star players (Yogi) aren't rated 5 star by other services.  But I didn't do that.

Hulls may have been RSCI #75, he was still a 3 star player.  He also only made the RSCI list in the last edition, meaning someone found him as a diamond in the rough and then he got the rated.  As Kelvin Sampson said, "Hulls would be a nice NAIA player".  Incidentally, Erik Williams was rated AHEAD of Hulls in that RSCI..  Didn't work out so well, now did it? 

Remy plays 13 minutes a game, seems you forgot him.  Elston has been hurt most of the year, but played in 100 games. 

While teams like Kentucky, Duke, UNC, etc all have more 4 and 5 stars than anything else.  I didn't think this was that hard.  They have only two Five Star players (one of whom was not unanimous 5 star), has more 3 stars than any other designation, yet has still performed better than those teams vastly higher rated players on their teams. Maybe that helps clarify things for you.

[MU82]

This just in ...

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. - Florida State's Michael Snaer's left-handed runner in heavy traffic with 4 seconds left lifted the Seminoles to a 53-51 win over Virginia Thursday after the Cavaliers had fought back from an 11-point deficit to take the lead in the game's final seconds.

It was the fourth game-winning shot by Snaer in Atlantic Coast Conference play this season and his sixth over the past two years.

And this is why Michael Snaer is considered a likely NBA draft pick, maybe even a first-rounder. The ability to step up and win games -- especially when everybody in the arena knows who is going to take the shot -- impresses the hell out of NBA people. It shows toughness, clutchness, confidence and obviously skill.

No disrespect to Vander Blue, who really hasn't been put in the position to attempt such shots. It's just a fact for those wondering what separates the two in the eyes of NBA scouts and honchos.

[Lennys Tap]

Sure, go ahead and cherry pick one rating service.  And who cares about players like Etherington & Jurkin - they don't play.

Of the 6 players getting heavy minutes, Zeller was #10 RSCI & McDonald's AA, Ferrell was #25 RSCI & McDonald's AA, Watford was #45 RSCI, Jordan Hulls was #74 RSCI, Oladipo & Sheehy were 3*.  That's 2/6 major rotation players at 3*.  Both of those players developed very nicely.  However, 2/6 is not MOST.

Three other players get minutes that are even worth mentioning (they play Juan Anderson/Steve Taylor/Derrick Wilson type minutes).  Jeremy Hollowell was #45 RSCI, Remy Abell was a 3*, and Creek was #58 RSCI but like you said he has had some horrible luck and will unfortunatlely never be the same player.  So 1/3 minor rotation players were 3*, and one that plays the least is a hard luck injury case.

In sum, of the nine rotation players, 2 were 5* burger boys, 3 more were top 75, 2 were 3* players way outplaying their ranking that fit your "developed" criteria, another was a 3* that is a role player, another was a top 75 injury case that gets fringe minutes.

How in the world does that fit your narrative that Crean is doing it with Zeller and MOSTLY 3* players?  I agree with you wholeheartedly about Oladipo & Sheehy.  Like I said, one would get my vote for national POY, the other for conference 6th man of the year.  That's very nice player development from those two players.  Just leave it at that, no need to exaggerate.

Thanks for an honest, factual representation.

[Sunbelt15]

Blue is better period.

Not.

[jesmu84]

This just in ...

And this is why Michael Snaer is considered a likely NBA draft pick, maybe even a first-rounder. The ability to step up and win games -- especially when everybody in the arena knows who is going to take the shot -- impresses the hell out of NBA people. It shows toughness, clutchness, confidence and obviously skill.

No disrespect to Vander Blue, who really hasn't been put in the position to attempt such shots. It's just a fact for those wondering what separates the two in the eyes of NBA scouts and honchos.

I'm not saying he does it a lot. Or does it well, but didn't Vander just hit a 3 to tie and FT to secure our win against Rutgers?

[MU82]

I'm not saying he does it a lot. Or does it well, but didn't Vander just hit a 3 to tie and FT to secure our win against Rutgers?

It's difficult to have this conversation without sounding like I'm ripping on Vander. That certainly isn't what I'm doing, just stating facts.

Yes, Vander had that 3 and those FTs, and yes, he has made other important buckets this season. But I think everyone would agree with me that there's a pretty big difference between hitting an important 3 with a few minutes remaining and hitting a game-winning, buzzer-beating shot. Which Snaer has done repeatedly even though every single person in the arena knew he'd be taking those shots. That's beyond impressive; it's Jordanesque.

[jesmu84]

It's difficult to have this conversation without sounding like I'm ripping on Vander. That certainly isn't what I'm doing, just stating facts.

Yes, Vander had that 3 and those FTs, and yes, he has made other important buckets this season. But I think everyone would agree with me that there's a pretty big difference between hitting an important 3 with a few minutes remaining and hitting a game-winning, buzzer-beating shot. Which Snaer has done repeatedly even though every single person in the arena knew he'd be taking those shots. That's beyond impressive; it's Jordanesque.

Fair point.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Thanks for an honest, factual representation.

It wasn't more factual at all....oh the irony.  Nothing I said was wrong...oh the irony.  It started with a stars rating and then he didn't like that so he went to the RSCI....you know, the great service that says Erik Williams is the 67th best player and Hulls was 74th (Oladipo 143  LOL).  Junior Cadougan 47th...uhm, ok. 

[Lennys Tap]

It wasn't more factual at all....oh the irony.  Nothing I said was wrong...oh the irony.  It started with a stars rating and then he didn't like that so he went to the RSCI....you know, the great service that says Erik Williams is the 67th best player and Hulls was 74th (Oladipo 143  LOL).  Junior Cadougan 47th...uhm, ok.  

Here's a recap:

Using the survey that YOU provided, I listed the five (5) Indiana players listed in the top 300. They included Zeller, Oladipo, Watford, Hulls and Farrell.

You replied that the amazing thing about it was that only one (1) of those guys was a 5 star and that MOST of them were 3 stars.

Wrong on both counts. (if the shoe were on the other foot you wouldn't say wrong but rather accuse me of lying) And that's even granting you your very dubious insistance on the #74 consensus player being a 3 star guy, something I've never seen before.

Obfuscate, bring up red herrings (what in the wide, wide world of sports does Erik Williams or Junior Cadougan have to do with where the Indiana guys are/were rated?) If you want me to provide you with a breakdown of the percentages of minutes top 10, top 25, top 50 and top 100 players provide at IU and MU I'll be glad to.

But nothing you said was wrong. LOL