Rank The Conferences Academic Reputation

[ChicosBailBonds]

Correct.  Football only

[forgetful]

The same can be said of US News.  The difference is, one is a magazine that has made a cottage industry of this ranking system while the AAU is an elite organization with very few members and extremely difficult requirements to get in.  BC better than Missouri...maybe....all depends on the what the criteria is.  

Only 60 schools in the US are members of the AAU and they have no problem kicking schools out that don't meet their standards.  When you consider most of the Ivy schools are in there, plus Stanford, Cal, MIT, Cal Tech, and the top Pac Twelve, Big Ten universities...well it's a who's who of American education.  Been around since 1900.  Did you know that more than 50% of the PHD's awarded each year in all of the U.S. come from AAU schools?

The question was about reputation, and like it or not the academic reputations are often driven by large research dollars, endowments, presence of law and medical schools, etc.  An individual's education is ultimately up to them.  Having attended two of these AAU schools (KU and IU) and one non-AAU school (Marquette), I can put tremendous value on all of them.

I know you drink the BiG kool-aid, but ACC is easily tops, SEC is clearly on the bottom (only Vanderbilt would be considered a top notch education).  The AAU as others have said means they get research dollars, which means the graduate side/med school is solid, but the quality of the undergraduate education most often suffers with the research heavy focus.

Presidents of Universities may care about the AAU, but I can assure you academics do not.  Would you rather send your kid to Dartmouth (not an AAU member) or UC-Santa Barbara (AAU member).  Georgetown (not an AAU member) or University of Oregon.  Wellesley (not an AAU member) or Case Western.

AAU is like Who's Who of American Universities.  If you need to boast about it, your not really at the top.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I know you drink the BiG kool-aid, but ACC is easily tops, SEC is clearly on the bottom (only Vanderbilt would be considered a top notch education).  The AAU as others have said means they get research dollars, which means the graduate side/med school is solid, but the quality of the undergraduate education most often suffers with the research heavy focus.

Presidents of Universities may care about the AAU, but I can assure you academics do not.  Would you rather send your kid to Dartmouth (not an AAU member) or UC-Santa Barbara (AAU member).  Georgetown (not an AAU member) or University of Oregon.  Wellesley (not an AAU member) or Case Western.

AAU is like Who's Who of American Universities.  If you need to boast about it, your not really at the top.

Easily tops...based on what criteria?  I believe I said pretty clearly that an education, a good one, can be had anywhere.  The question was reputation and part of that reputation is by the very academics that you admit put a high value on things like the AAU.  There's a reason the club is exclusive.  I agree, Georgetown is very good, ND, BC, etc.  In many academic programs I would want my kid to go to a school over an AAU school.  No argument from me...we agree.  But on purely overall academic reputation, that's a bit different.  The ACC is really good, I would have no problem putting them up there and maybe even switching them as 1 and the B1G as two, but the stats I stated haven't changed...most Nobel laureates, most research dollars, highest number of AAU schools, highest % of AAU schools, etc is all B1G.

As for the SEC, come on.  Florida and Vandy very good schools.  For those that keep bringing up US News, Florida and Vandy higher that 95% of Big East schools.  When I see Big East listed 3rd here I'm thinking HOMER HOMER HOMER.  Alabama, always rated higher than MU and most Big East schools.  Auburn and Missouri, also both in the top 100.  A bunch of Big East schools finishing below that if you want to use that source.  Ultimately, go where you will do well, with a strong academic reputation and a strong field of study.   You can  succeed wherever you go.  I work with guys from Duke, U of Chicago, UNC, Wisconsin, Stanford, Cal, Rice, etc, etc.  My boss went to Tufts, my counterparts in my department went to Cornell and UCLA.  Some really smart people...intimidating smart sometimes.  Then again, there are also some folks that went to Cal State Northridge, or Fullerton or ASU and they are fantastic.  It's all what you do with it and the effort you put into it.

[forgetful]

Easily tops...based on what criteria?  I believe I said pretty clearly that an education, a good one, can be had anywhere.  The question was reputation and part of that reputation is by the very academics that you admit put a high value on things like the AAU.  There's a reason the club is exclusive.  I agree, Georgetown is very good, ND, BC, etc.  In many academic programs I would want my kid to go to a school over an AAU school.  No argument from me...we agree.  But on purely overall academic reputation, that's a bit different.  The ACC is really good, I would have no problem putting them up there and maybe even switching them as 1 and the B1G as two, but the stats I stated haven't changed...most Nobel laureates, most research dollars, highest number of AAU schools, highest % of AAU schools, etc is all B1G.

As for the SEC, come on.  Florida and Vandy very good schools.  For those that keep bringing up US News, Florida and Vandy higher that 95% of Big East schools.  When I see Big East listed 3rd here I'm thinking HOMER HOMER HOMER.  Alabama, always rated higher than MU and most Big East schools.  Auburn and Missouri, also both in the top 100.  A bunch of Big East schools finishing below that if you want to use that source.  Ultimately, go where you will do well, with a strong academic reputation and a strong field of study.   You can  succeed wherever you go.  I work with guys from Duke, U of Chicago, UNC, Wisconsin, Stanford, Cal, Rice, etc, etc.  My boss went to Tufts, my counterparts in my department went to Cornell and UCLA.  Some really smart people...intimidating smart sometimes.  Then again, there are also some folks that went to Cal State Northridge, or Fullerton or ASU and they are fantastic.  It's all what you do with it and the effort you put into it.

I said academics "DO NOT Care", presidents do, but they are not academics at most universities.  Florida is not a respected top Education. Its a decent school, but no where near elite.  I never even heard of the AAU, except for the BiG making a big deal about it.

[keefe]

If money, geography, and course of study are not barriers and your child was accepted to one of these non-AAU members:

Bates, Middlebury, Amherst, Williams, Tufts, Dartmouth, Vassar or Swarthmore

And these AAU members:

Mizzou, SUNY Stony Brook, UC Irvine, UC Davis, UCSB, Colorado, SUNY Buffalo, Iowa State

from which list would you encourage your child to attend? Be honest.

C'mon Chicos...answer the question!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Geez Chico's, that reads like an AAU press release. Let's be honest ... while the AAU might have once been about lofty platitudes and the like, today it's little more than a lobbying organization that tries (successfully) to secure the lion's share of federal grant money for its members. The only reason they've booted members in recent history is because those members were securing enough, or the right kind, of grant money.

But yes, the issue is reputation. And while the US News rankings certainly has its flaws, the rankings are all about reputation. They're both largely based on reputation and they - to a far greater extent than the AAU - determine reputations. The single most important factor in the US News ranking is peer assessment ... what professors and administrators at other schools think of your school.
So, when a school like BC ranks 31st or ND 17th or G'Town 21st, it reflects the fact that people in the university fields believe they're much better schools than IU at 83rd, Mizzou at 97th and Kansas at 109th (or MU at 83rd , for that matter) ... despite their AAU status, of which I'm sure they're well aware.
Remember, the question was about reputation.

Fair points. I viewed it as academic reputation among academics...in other words, the very peers you are talking about. So from that point we start in the same place.  However, I view US News as only partially taking an academics POV, it's not majority of the ranking, and maybe it shouldn't be.  I'm not going to quibble over that.  I look at the AAU and how schools fight to get into it and fight to stay into it as actions that speak loudly.  I look at the membership, extremely strong. 

Of course, there are also many other rankings and ultimately comes down to which sources one wishes to rely on.  Take the ARWU (Academic Rankings of World Universities) as another ranking system.  In ARWU Marquette is not in the top 500, yet MU is 83 in US News.  There are wild swings to some of these rankings based on method, weighting, etc.  One could use the Forbes rankings, the Gourman rankings, Princeton Review rankings, on and on.  All kinds of academic rankings, some done by academics, some done by magazines with peer reviews as one component, some done by corporations.  All kinds of reputations.

[Tugg Speedman]

When I see Big East listed 3rd here I'm thinking HOMER HOMER HOMER.  Alabama, always rated higher than MU and most Big East schools.  Auburn and Missouri, also both in the top 100.  A bunch of Big East schools finishing below that if you want to use that source.

Nice statement ... too bad the facts do not support it.

Alabama is in a six way tie for 77th  Next on the list is 83 which includes MU (and IU).  So it is possible that Alabama is exactly one spot ahead of MU, hardly what I would call "always rated higher."  It might not be next ranking later this year.

Auburn in 89 and Missouri in 97.  

ND 17, GU 21, Syracuse 58, Pitt 58, Uconn 63, Rutgers 68 are ahead of Alabama.  MU is essentially tied ... that makes 7 BE school tied or ahead of Alabama.  

Nova is #1 for Regional Universities "North"  PC is #4 ... not sure how that compares to the number 77 (or 83) on the national university list.  

Now I know you will remind us you said "most of schools behind" but 7 are tied or ahead.  Nova and PC might be ahead too ... that means most are actually ahead of Alabama.

Finally, I graduated with a BS in Finance and US News ranks the Finance program at MU #17 in the country.

[keefe]

Man, I am surprised that anyone on this board went to Marquette. After all the AAU rankings are paramount and of course Marquette has never been one of those prestigious universities. Like SUNY Stony Brook, SUNY Buffalo, UC Davis, UCSB, US Irvine, Missouri, Colorado, Rutgers, etc...

Hell, I went to the finest University in the Big 10 and never once heard of it until the debate about taking Nebraska. And even then I was not impressed.

Here is the litmus test for academic reputation - the hiring process. When I was in HK a Brit colleague from London called and asked if I would talk to the trailing spouse of a college mate who was with Jardine Fleming and being posted to HK. He faxed her CV over to me and it was filled with A levels and such. She even had her grammar school, The Alice Ottley School for Girls listed. I asked an English colleague to look it over which he did and he summarized by noting she went to University of Edinburgh and was therefore worth a look. We did hire her and she was outstanding. Bottom line - someone familiar with the rep of her alma mater concluded that alone meant she was worth meeting. Not once have I ever asked someone why they did or did not attend an AAU member school. Because people neither know nor care.

And I will say, if I see Dartmouth on a CV I sure as hell will want to see that candidate before I ever speak with SUNY Buffalo grad. Anybody who says otherwise is being...disingenuous.

[dgies9156]

You can  succeed wherever you go.  It's all what you do with it and the effort you put into it.

Right on Chicos!

One of the most important comments ever made to me about college was by an engineer who went to Vanderbilt who made steel in Birmingham while in college during his summer break. He was a recent grad and a blue collar kid who said, "It doesn't matter where you go in... It is what you make of what you have..."

I work with a boatload of Northwestern, Illinois, University of Chicago and Domer grads. But the most consistently good top-to-bottom grads I've seen over my business career come from, of all places, Indiana University. They do a great job and based on experience, I've rarely seen a bad one. IU grads tend to have good heads on their shoulders, take their jobs and their colleagues seriously. They take what they have and run with it... hard!

Now if I want a supportive and loyal alumni network, which probably is more important than AAU membership anyway, I'd go to the service academies or Notre Dame. Nobody takes care of their grads better!

[jficke13]

Here is the litmus test for academic reputation - the hiring process.

This should be the alpha and omega for this discussion. For 99.9% of the students who are not going to research PhD programs, the only "academic rating" criterion that matters is "do I have a job."

[Tugg Speedman]

This should be the alpha and omega for this discussion. For 99.9% of the students who are not going to research PhD programs, the only "academic rating" criterion that matters is "do I have a job."

True for the "professional degrees" like business and engineering.  But what about the liberal arts degrees?  If someone graduates with a degree in history, French or literature and then complains they cannot get a job and blames the university, who is really at fault?

[Benny B]

1. Pac 12
2. Big 10
3. Big 12
4. ACC
5. Big East
6. Middle schools in America
7. Elementary schools in Canada
8. Kindergartens in Zimbabwe
9. The best "universities" in the DPRK
10. Le Cordon Bleu
11. A day care where they shake babies.
12. SEC

[Tugg Speedman]

We have a winner!

[Groin_pull]

Easily tops...based on what criteria?  I believe I said pretty clearly that an education, a good one, can be had anywhere.  The question was reputation and part of that reputation is by the very academics that you admit put a high value on things like the AAU.  There's a reason the club is exclusive.  I agree, Georgetown is very good, ND, BC, etc.  In many academic programs I would want my kid to go to a school over an AAU school.  No argument from me...we agree.  But on purely overall academic reputation, that's a bit different.  The ACC is really good, I would have no problem putting them up there and maybe even switching them as 1 and the B1G as two, but the stats I stated haven't changed...most Nobel laureates, most research dollars, highest number of AAU schools, highest % of AAU schools, etc is all B1G.

As for the SEC, come on.  Florida and Vandy very good schools.  For those that keep bringing up US News, Florida and Vandy higher that 95% of Big East schools.  When I see Big East listed 3rd here I'm thinking HOMER HOMER HOMER.  Alabama, always rated higher than MU and most Big East schools.  Auburn and Missouri, also both in the top 100.  A bunch of Big East schools finishing below that if you want to use that source.  Ultimately, go where you will do well, with a strong academic reputation and a strong field of study.   You can  succeed wherever you go.  I work with guys from Duke, U of Chicago, UNC, Wisconsin, Stanford, Cal, Rice, etc, etc.  My boss went to Tufts, my counterparts in my department went to Cornell and UCLA.  Some really smart people...intimidating smart sometimes.  Then again, there are also some folks that went to Cal State Northridge, or Fullerton or ASU and they are fantastic.  It's all what you do with it and the effort you put into it.

I totally forgot about the SEC. And yes, I'd put them above the Big East. Let's also add the Ivy League. My revised list:

1. Ivy League
2. ACC
3. Pac-12
4. Big 10
5. SEC
6. Big East

[ChicosBailBonds]

I said academics "DO NOT Care", presidents do, but they are not academics at most universities.  Florida is not a respected top Education. Its a decent school, but no where near elite.  I never even heard of the AAU, except for the BiG making a big deal about it.

I see, so you are the authority on the AAU and it's because you haven't even heard of it.  Awesome.    Many things in life we haven't heard of that are very important.  Actually the Ivy League, Stanford, UCLA, Cal Tech, MIT, Texas, etc all put a big deal on it.  And you are dead wrong about academics.  The perks that go along with membership are big, both from a career point of view and dollars to fund their research grants.  Academics absolutely care, in a big way.  On Florida, show me a ranking where MU is ahead of Florida in academics?  Or are you also saying MU isn't a respected education.  


Just a few examples

http://chronicle.com/article/As-AAU-Admits-Georgia-Tech-to/65200/

http://blogs.utexas.edu/towertalk/2012/10/25/the-importance-of-the-aau/

"In addition to the U.S. News and World Report, there is another ranking that is extremely important, probably significantly more important. This is the Association of American Universities listing of the top U.S. research universities."  

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2012/sep/22/ku-should-be-concerned-about-aau-membership/

It was big enough for Michigan and Wisconsin to deny Nebraska (one of their own) membership continuation.  

http://journalstar.com/news/local/education/emails-wisconsin-and-michigan-opposed-nebraska-s-aau-membership/article_19188dda-afe7-57c8-aa2c-c1939ec5acb4.html


From schools dying to get in but aren't

"perhaps the most elite organization in higher education. You'd probably be hard-pressed to find a major research university that didn't want to be a member of the AAU" -  University of Connecticut

"the pre-eminent research-intensive membership group. To be a part of that organization is something N.C. State aspires to'"

"Dartmouth certainly would welcome an invitation to join the AAU," Dr. Kim wrote in response to an inquiry. "Our level and complexity of research activity and our commitment to research seem to us reflective of a leading institution."

[ChicosBailBonds]

Problem with the Pac 12 is the dregs at the bottom.  ASU, Oregon State, Washington State, Utah, etc, really bring it down. 

[Groin_pull]

Problem with the Pac 12 is the dregs at the bottom.  ASU, Oregon State, Washington State, Utah, etc, really bring it down. 

I see your point, but I think the elites at the top are so strong (Stanford...UCLA...USC...Cal...Washington), they make up for it.

[keefe]

I see, so you are the authority on the AAU and it's because you haven't even heard of it.  Awesome.    Many things in life we haven't heard of that are very important.  Actually the Ivy League, Stanford, UCLA, Cal Tech, MIT, Texas, etc all put a big deal on it.  And you are dead wrong about academics.  The perks that go along with membership are big, both from a career point of view and dollars to fund their research grants.  Academics absolutely care, in a big way.  On Florida, show me a ranking where MU is ahead of Florida in academics?  Or are you also saying MU isn't a respected education.  


Just a few examples

http://chronicle.com/article/As-AAU-Admits-Georgia-Tech-to/65200/

http://blogs.utexas.edu/towertalk/2012/10/25/the-importance-of-the-aau/

"In addition to the U.S. News and World Report, there is another ranking that is extremely important, probably significantly more important. This is the Association of American Universities listing of the top U.S. research universities."  

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2012/sep/22/ku-should-be-concerned-about-aau-membership/

It was big enough for Michigan and Wisconsin to deny Nebraska (one of their own) membership continuation.  

http://journalstar.com/news/local/education/emails-wisconsin-and-michigan-opposed-nebraska-s-aau-membership/article_19188dda-afe7-57c8-aa2c-c1939ec5acb4.html


From schools dying to get in but aren't

"perhaps the most elite organization in higher education. You'd probably be hard-pressed to find a major research university that didn't want to be a member of the AAU" -  University of Connecticut

"the pre-eminent research-intensive membership group. To be a part of that organization is something N.C. State aspires to'"

"Dartmouth certainly would welcome an invitation to join the AAU," Dr. Kim wrote in response to an inquiry. "Our level and complexity of research activity and our commitment to research seem to us reflective of a leading institution."

Since this credential is so important why did you cheapen yourself and attend Marquette??

[Groin_pull]

Since this credential is so important why did you cheapen yourself and attend Marquette??

I think you missed his bigger point. You can get a wonderful education anywhere...if you're willing to put in the effort.

[keefe]

Problem with the Pac 12 is the dregs at the bottom.  ASU, Oregon State, Washington State, Utah, etc, really bring it down. 

Our son, who was a Div I scholarship football player at Washington State, is now a medical student at the University of Michigan. I guess that makes his getting accepted to a leading medical program all the more impressive since he had to overcome having attended one of the "dregs at the bottom" of the Pac 12. That and the fact that Wazzu is not an AAU-member.

[Pakuni]

Again, Chico's, you're sort of missing the point about the AAU. It is important, but it's importance isn't a reflection of ALL its members academic quality/rigor. Rather, it's importance in that it serves both as a lobbyist and a lobbying tool to obtain the lion's share of federal research dollars. Despite representing only 61 schools, AAU members receive nearly 60 percent of all the federal grant money out there.
That's certainly a testament to their efforts. But it's also the primary reason universities want to be a part of it, because membership means significantly greater access to federal money. And despite ivory tower blah blah blah, universities want and need money like any other enterprise.
It's not because it puts a school among the academic elite. Certainly there are members that are elite, but there also are members that are quite mediocre. A simple reading of the membership makes this self-evident. Do you seriously dispute this?

[keefe]

Again, Chico's, you're sort of missing the point about the AAU. It is important, but it's importance isn't a reflection of ALL its members academic quality/rigor. Rather, it's importance in that it serves both as a lobbyist and a lobbying tool to obtain the lion's share of federal research dollars. Despite representing only 61 schools, AAU members receive nearly 60 percent of all the federal grant money out there.
That's certainly a testament to their efforts. But it's also the primary reason universities want to be a part of it, because membership means significantly greater access to federal money. And despite ivory tower blah blah blah, universities want and need money like any other enterprise.
It's not because it puts a school among the academic elite. Certainly there are members that are elite, but there also are members that are quite mediocre. A simple reading of the membership makes this self-evident. Do you seriously dispute this?

Stated perfectly.

[forgetful]

I see, so you are the authority on the AAU and it's because you haven't even heard of it.  Awesome.    Many things in life we haven't heard of that are very important.  Actually the Ivy League, Stanford, UCLA, Cal Tech, MIT, Texas, etc all put a big deal on it.  And you are dead wrong about academics.  The perks that go along with membership are big, both from a career point of view and dollars to fund their research grants.  Academics absolutely care, in a big way.  On Florida, show me a ranking where MU is ahead of Florida in academics?  Or are you also saying MU isn't a respected education.  

See the problem is, I am an academic and with a quick poll, none of my peers have heard of it either.  They even joked that it is like MENSA, that if you are actually good no one cares.

As I said, Presidents of Universities care, but they don't know academics.  Guess what else.  Others on here may also be important people that are in the know on certain things.  Just because we don't all sit around constantly name dropping doesn't mean that they aren't important.

Actually, usually those that don't find the need to name drop are more important and don't suffer from inferiority complexes.  

As for MU vs. Florida.  All other things being equal, I would hire the MU kid over Florida.  Not even a question.  Most of my peers would say the same.  Now if we are talking about graduate education it is a different story.

[dgies9156]

True for the "professional degrees" like business and engineering.  But what about the liberal arts degrees?  If someone graduates with a degree in history, French or literature and then complains they cannot get a job and blames the university, who is really at fault?

The liberal arts student is, for messing up his or her interview with 7-Eleven!

[keefe]

True for the "professional degrees" like business and engineering.  But what about the liberal arts degrees?  If someone graduates with a degree in history, French or literature and then complains they cannot get a job and blames the university, who is really at fault?

Actually, a significant number of people at HBS had liberal arts degrees. And they did just fine, even with the maths. In fact, in many ways, they brought creative, innovative approaches to case studies. And I dare say they are not struggling finding employment in the work place.

A liberal arts degree is a great foundation for not only success in graduate work but in life.