uw schedule out

[TVDirector]

can't wait for the national tv tilt vs. edgewood...


they do have some nice ones tho.

Sun. Nov. 4  EDGEWOOD COLLEGE* 7 p.m.   
Wed. Nov. 7  UW-EAU CLAIRE* 7 p.m.   
Sun. Nov. 11 IUPUI-FORT WAYNE TBA 
Thu. Nov. 15 SAVANNAH STATE# TBA 
Fri. Nov. 16 FLORIDA A&M# TBA 
Sat. Nov. 17  COLORADO# TBA 
Sat. Nov. 24 GEORGIA TBA 
Tue. Nov. 27  at Duke
(ACC-Big Ten Challenge) 8 p.m. ESPN
DECEMBER
Mon. Dec. 3 WOFFORD TBA 
Sat. Dec. 8 MARQUETTE TBA 
Wed. Dec. 12 at UW-Milwaukee TBA 
Sat. Dec. 15 UW-GREEN BAY TBA 
Sat. Dec. 22 VALPARAISO TBA 
Sat. Dec. 29 at Texas 11 a.m. ESPN2
JANUARY
Wed. Jan. 2 at Michigan 6 p.m. BTN
Sat. Jan. 5 IOWA 11 a.m. BTN
Thu. Jan. 10 ILLINOIS 8 p.m. ESPN/ESPN2
Tue. Jan. 15 at Penn State 8 p.m. BTN
Sat. Jan. 19 NORTHWESTERN 8 p.m. BTN
Tue. Jan. 22 MICHIGAN 6 p.m. ESPN
Sat. Jan. 26 at Purdue 3 p.m. EPSN
Thu. Jan. 31 INDIANA 8 p.m. ESPN/ESPN2
FEBRUARY
Sun. Feb. 3 at Minnesota 1 p.m. BTN
Wed. Feb. 6 at Iowa 8 p.m. BTN
Sat. Feb. 9 PURDUE 8 p.m. BTN
Wed. Feb. 13 at Indiana 6 p.m. BTN
Sat. Feb. 16 MINNESOTA 1 p.m. BTN
Wed. Feb. 20 at Illinois 8 p.m. BTN
Sat./Sun. Feb. 23/24 at Ohio State TBA TBA
Thu. Feb. 28 MICHIGAN STATE 8 p.m. ESPN/ESPN2
MARCH
Tue./Wed. March 4/5 PENN STATE 6/8 p.m. TBA
Sati/Sun.. March 8/9 at Northwestern 4 p.m./11 a.m. BTN
Thu.-Sun March 13-16 Big Ten tournament (Indianapolis) TBA

[ecompt]

I wonder if Badgers faithful are upset about laying out their hard-earned dollars to see Edgewood, Eau Claire, Savannah State, Florida A&M, Green Bay, Fort Wayne and Wofford. I guarantee our SOS at the end of the year will be better.

[The Lens]

How can we rip on them...

They have:

Duke
Georgia
Colorado
Valpo
UWM
UWGB
MU
Texas

That's 8 or 12 pre conf games that are "interesting"

We'll have:

Maui 1
Maui 2
Maui 3
UWM
UW
One Other Good OOC

That's 6 and since we Maui only counts against us 1 time in the eyes of the NCAA we'll probably have 1 or 2 more bunnies.

Plus look at that home sked:

UGA, Colo, UWGB, MU, Valpo...that's 5 interesting home games...what will we have 2?

[4thAndState]

I don't know if UWGB and Valpo move up to the "interesting" list. Both are easy home wins for virtually all upper tier programs. Plus Colorado is marginal. That leaves MU and UGA as the best, most interesting non-conf home games.

[The Lens]

I put interesting in quotes for a reason.

Personally I think what Todd K, Brian Wardle and Jon Harris have done up there after the Mike Heideman bomb is great work and I like to keep tabs on former members of the MU family / Coach Crean Coaching Tree.

Valpo has a legendary coach...Colo is a BCS school.

Besides, if UWGB, Valpo or Colo were on our sked they'd be the 2nd or 3rd best home games.

[4thAndState]

I agree that those games may be interesting from different angles. UWGB is also a sentimental favorite on mine since Todd's been there. Nonetheless, all 3 of those games (GB, Colo, V) are easy wins. The RPIs will be in the range of the teams MU plays in nonconf.

[ecompt]

If they were playing Colorado in football, it might make for an interesting game. Not in hoops. I stand by my statement: our SOS at the end of the season will be better than theirs.

[mu_hilltopper]

Last year's RPI:  UWGB 170, Colorado: 106, Valpo 164.

Last year's RPI for MU Home games above 170 RPI: 6 games

Mon Nov 13 Marquette 59, (193) Idaho St. 56 (OT) Home 1-0   
Tue Nov 14 Marquette 87, (191) Detroit 45 Home 2-0   
Sat Nov 18 Marquette 95, (234) Eastern Michigan 62 Home 3-0   
Sat Dec 16 Marquette 68, (214) MD Baltimore County 46 Home 9-2   
Fri Dec 22 Marquette 77, (303) Morgan St. 57 Home 11-2   
Sat Dec 30 Marquette 69, (289) Savannah St. 51 Home 12-2

Last year's RPI for MU Home games below 170 RPI: 6 games
Mon Nov 27 Marquette 65, (164) Valparaiso 62 Away 6-0   
Fri Dec 1 Marquette 83, (167) Northwestern St. 67 Home 7-0   
Sat Dec 2 (160) North Dakota St. 64, Marquette 60 Home 7-1   
Tue Dec 5 Marquette 65, (120) Delaware St. 48 Home 8-1   
Sat Dec 9 (4) Wisconsin 70, Marquette 66 Home 8-2   
Tue Dec 19 Marquette 80, (125) Oakland 62 Home 10-2   

I'd trade UWGB and Colorado for any of those 11 games (not the UW game, obviously) .. I'd trade a #170 Coloardo game for a #125 Oakland game .. anybody not?

[mu03eng]

Last year's RPI:  UWGB 170, Colorado: 106, Valpo 164.

Last year's RPI for MU Home games above 170 RPI: 6 games

Mon Nov 13 Marquette 59, (193) Idaho St. 56 (OT) Home 1-0   
Tue Nov 14 Marquette 87, (191) Detroit 45 Home 2-0   
Sat Nov 18 Marquette 95, (234) Eastern Michigan 62 Home 3-0   
Sat Dec 16 Marquette 68, (214) MD Baltimore County 46 Home 9-2   
Fri Dec 22 Marquette 77, (303) Morgan St. 57 Home 11-2   
Sat Dec 30 Marquette 69, (289) Savannah St. 51 Home 12-2

Last year's RPI for MU Home games below 170 RPI: 6 games
Mon Nov 27 Marquette 65, (164) Valparaiso 62 Away 6-0   
Fri Dec 1 Marquette 83, (167) Northwestern St. 67 Home 7-0   
Sat Dec 2 (160) North Dakota St. 64, Marquette 60 Home 7-1   
Tue Dec 5 Marquette 65, (120) Delaware St. 48 Home 8-1   
Sat Dec 9 (4) Wisconsin 70, Marquette 66 Home 8-2   
Tue Dec 19 Marquette 80, (125) Oakland 62 Home 10-2   

I'd trade UWGB and Colorado for any of those 11 games (not the UW game, obviously) .. I'd trade a #170 Coloardo game for a #125 Oakland game .. anybody not?

Hilltopper I think you illustrate perfectly the issue with schedule.  You are willingly trading an RPI 125 for an 170.....why?  All I can think of is that name, Colorado people know, Oakland people do not.  I would argue, based on RPI that Oakland would give MU a better game than Colorado not to mention that we would get a better RPI in the end by playing the team that has the better RPI itself.

We can't look at a schedule and say well I only recognize 3 schools out of 10 on there.

So to answer you, I would definitely not trade Oakland for Colorado.

[mu_hilltopper]

For a team that should be in the upper 30 RPI every year, playing a team of 125 or 170, it really won't matter.  Both should be beaten easily.  (cough NDSU cough).

So why not take the team that could be considered "higher interest"?

Now .. if we're talking 100 RPI points different, then we're getting closer to saying no swap.

And sure, before you trade the 120 for a 170, you trade the 193, 191, 234, 214, 303, 289s for that 170.

The bottom line is .. the past few years, MU has not done well in the higher-interest category.  Our RPI will be fine at the end of the year anyhow, playing 18 BE teams.   If you can get a team that season ticket holders won't bitch about, why not? 

[Murffieus]

Bo caught a break----MSU once at home and OSU only once , but there!

[mu03eng]

I guess in the end I just look at the numbers and consider Oakland a better game than Colorado.  Colorado has the name, but their RPI is only as high as it is based on playing the teams in their conference like Texas, Texas A&M, and Kansas.

From a purely basketball stand point I would argue Oakland gives you a better game.

I understand your argument about the BE gives us the RPI so lets not worry about RPI and get names people know.  Thats fine, but then you are going to pay for them.  Exactly the same reason you want them, allows those schools to "charge" more for them to come to Milwaukee.  This in turn gets passed to us the season ticket holder.

In the end we are really arguing about maybe two games with similar RPIs but getting the team with the name instead of the one without.  I don't see how that makes any real kind of difference.  If we had Colorado instead of Oakland on a previous home slate, would that satisfy all the schedule haters?  Would that satisfy PRN?

[Dish]

Well, apparently we have somewhat of a sample to go off of, from another Big 12 "name" school:

Oakland @ Marquette  12/19/06  Attendance: 12,605
Nebraska @ Marquette 12/21/04 Attendance: 12,211

[The Lens]

Like most schools, MU reports tickets sold.

I'm willing to bet a $7.00 Bradley Center beer that there were at least 1,000 more people at the Nebraska game.

[Eye]

Anybody care to offer a guess on a Vermin record (you've sold me on the change Mayor). I'll say 18-12, 9-9.

[mu_hilltopper]

Like most schools, MU reports tickets sold.

I'm willing to bet a $7.00 Bradley Center beer that there were at least 1,000 more people at the Nebraska game.

I'll get in on that bet.  +1,500 even.

And, I'll go further, that the number of actual season ticket holders in attendance was -3000 more, as they gave the Oakland ticket to someone else.  I'll also bet the number of children at the Oakland game was +2000.  What does that mean?  That the STHs don't see much value in those tickets and give them away.

As I've said before, this debate surrounds the season ticket holders, and few others.  Very few non-STHs will go to Oakland, a few more will go to Nebraska, but the vast majority of the chattering class will probably just read about this game the next morning.   To STHs, the perceived value of an Oakland game versus the perceived value of Nebraska game is a huge difference to most.

And yes, I admit the basketball purists will just want to play the best competition, regardless of perceived interest.  But, they represent a small portion of the ~8000 STH seats.

[mu03eng]

Like most schools, MU reports tickets sold.

I'm willing to bet a $7.00 Bradley Center beer that there were at least 1,000 more people at the Nebraska game.

I'll get in on that bet.  +1,500 even.

And, I'll go further, that the number of actual season ticket holders in attendance was -3000 more, as they gave the Oakland ticket to someone else.  I'll also bet the number of children at the Oakland game was +2000.  What does that mean?  That the STHs don't see much value in those tickets and give them away.

As I've said before, this debate surrounds the season ticket holders, and few others.  Very few non-STHs will go to Oakland, a few more will go to Nebraska, but the vast majority of the chattering class will probably just read about this game the next morning.   To STHs, the perceived value of an Oakland game versus the perceived value of Nebraska game is a huge difference to most.

And yes, I admit the basketball purists will just want to play the best competition, regardless of perceived interest.  But, they represent a small portion of the ~8000 STH seats.

The question is then are you willing to pay more for the season tickets??  The name costs more, and in the end the team might get a less competitive game.  I go to see Marquette play basketball, I don't care if we are playing Sisters of the Poor or Florida.  In the end, how much does Marquette owe us, I would argue the slate we get is pretty darn good especially with the BE schedule.

[StillAWarrior]

The question is then are you willing to pay more for the season tickets??  The name costs more, and in the end the team might get a less competitive game.

I wonder if there's anybody out there with access to information relating to what a "buy game" with Oakland costs as compared to Colorado.  Anyone?  Chico?

[Dish]

I would doubt Oakland was a buy game, we gave them a 2 for 1 deal.

[The Lens]

One...Giving Oakland a 2 for 1 is a big part of the problem.

Two...How much am I willing to pay?  Well seeing as my tickets have nearly doubled in 5 years, I guess I'm willing to pay anything.

Look the oringinal point of this thread was just to say, we shouldn't rip UW apart b/c our sked was about the same or worse.  I appreciate the AD's budget issues, I love the Big East - I just wish some people would be able to admit that season ticket holders take a big hit in December...nearly every game is akin to watching NFL preseason.  And the reason is MU does it is not so much b/c they absolutely have to, it's b/c they can.  They know sheep like me will keep coming back.

[Harrison]

"I just wish some people would be able to admit that season ticket holders take a big hit in December."

Ok Damonkey..., now despite the fact that you will never ever hear me bitch about the schedule, despite being a season ticket holder from 180 miles away.

Here you go I will appease you.  Yes Mu's preconference schedule is not the strongest.
Now we could go into all the reasons, like MU giving up millions in NCAA tournament units and a buyout when leaving C_USA.  MU stepping up big time in program expenditures, ie charter flights , national recruitng, Holiday tournament every year, foreign trips.  We could also discuss the fact that in additon to the millions it left on the table to leave C_USA, they have also sacrificed 2 addition "paydays" by giving up buy games to go to the Holiday tournaments and the additonal BE game.   

Therefore, at the end of the day While you as a fan expect to play in these "big time " tournaments, recruit on a national level, play in the BE, compete on the court in in the recruitng battles with our BE brethren, provide facilities and amenities(charter flights etc) like other top 15 programs, you are unwilling to allow for a couple buy games in place of a couple home and homes.

So yes Damon I will sit here and admit that we poor Mu fans are taking a "big hit in December",  I guess some of us are able to see the big picture and realize that a small private school sometimes has to sacrafice something to attain others.  i persoanlly can get over kicking the hell out of St Mary's instead of kicking the hell out of arguably the worst BCS basketball program in the country ( Colorado) so that we do not have to travel there the next year and can bring in another big pay day that allows us to compete and spend on an elite level. 

Lastly, who cares what Wisconsin does...if those games are so damn appealing og to them.  No to mention there Big tean schedule will suck, and MU will have a much harder SOS by the end of the year.  Get used to it, it is what it is and realistically will not change anytime soon unless the whole dynamic changes. 
i tell you I really enjoy reding these boards but this whole schedule bitching every year is so old, juvenile, and dense.  You give something to get something...

[mu03eng]

We agree on two points, the schedule in December has a lot of no names and weaker teams.  Also UW does play a decent schedule by your standards because they put name teams on it.  I think the two schedules are comparable and would be willing to concede in non-conference they are probably better.

I think we disagree on two points.

1.  Despite the weak December schedule I don't agree that MU can make it a "better" schedule.  From previous posts and discussion it seems like the people who are against the schedule is not from a basketball competition standpoint but a name standpoint.  As I've said before you have to pay for the name, and I'm not convinced that MU has the financial ability to keep throwing money out for name teams.  UWM was demanding something like $60,000 or $70,000 per game for them to walk across the street and play us.....I know there is some politics there but I bet you getting someone like Colorado costs $50,000 and I'm willing to bet Oakland doesn't cost nearly that much and you get at least a comparable level of competition.

2.  If you keep coming back why shouldn't they do what they are doing?  Its a market drive economy, and I don't see anyone blowing us out of the water in terms of a standout home non-conference schedules.  We seem to be doing what most other high major programs do.

In the end, my view is MU's job is to field a highly competitive team and put together a schedule that will help them do that.  At the same time they need to charge me for season tickets at a rate that reflects the level of play I am seeing.  Right now I think the price the charge is reflective of the package I get.  I'd love for people to give up their season tickets, maybe I could get out of the upper bowl.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Like most schools, MU reports tickets sold.

I'm willing to bet a $7.00 Bradley Center beer that there were at least 1,000 more people at the Nebraska game.

There were no more than 8,000 people at that Oakland game.

[mu_hilltopper]

The question is then are you willing to pay more for the season tickets??  The name costs more, and in the end the team might get a less competitive game.  I go to see Marquette play basketball, I don't care if we are playing Sisters of the Poor or Florida.  In the end, how much does Marquette owe us, I would argue the slate we get is pretty darn good especially with the BE schedule.

Sure.  Clearly, fans pay for increased value.  Ticket prices have doubled in ~5 years (it costs 2x to see DJ over what it cost to see DWade!)  -- When MU joined the BE, value went up, and attendance stopped its decline and went up all in the face of ticket prices increasing far beyond inflation.  Why?  Increased value.  BE games > CUSA games. -- and of course, winning > losing.

However, when the tickets double again (and they will) .. will the STHs continue to see enough value to pay?  That depends on perceived value. -- and guess what?  The average STH is just not flipping through the RPI list every year to figure what games are good, and which aren't.   Simple guess, but I'll say the # of MU internet dwellers is under 3,000.  That's only about a quarter of the people who attend games.  The vast majority are highly inclined to value games based on (drum roll) the name of the team we're playing. 

YOU may "go to see MU play basketball .. playing Sisters of the Poor" .. but clearly, many people will not.  Just pop your head in to a Morgan State game.  Lots of empties, (and lots of children) = lots of people who paid but don't value that game.

"How much does MU owe us?" -- They owe ticket buyers the exact same amount that any organization owes its customers:  A product that is valued.  No more, no less. 

And to echo DamonKeysContactLens .. he said it right.  "I just wish some people would be able to admit that season ticket holders take a big hit in December."  The season ticket holders fuel this program, plain and simple, and they are customers of a product just like any other.   

There is an alternative to buying season tickets.  As prices and cupcake count rises, it becomes more rational to scalp only the games you want to see, and skip the games you don't want to pay for.

But to conclude, I agree, and heck, even PRN agrees .. next season's schedule will be very decent, especially after last year's, which had the highest # of low-interest games in recent history.

[4thAndState]

Harrison and MU03Eng:
Great points. I think/hope we've closed the book on the this thread. And to think this debate really started with some believing that UW's home games against UWGB (average Horizon Leagure team), Colorado (170 RPI) and Valpo (a stretch to say "okay") would somehow be "interesting." If easy home wins are interesting, I'd agree.