Freshman

[BCHoopster]

The best part about freshman is they become sophomores.  Adams from Pitt was a Top 10 player coming in, yes, he made a few plays but was not much of a difference maker.  Robinson
the point was really good.  This is why next year Duane Wilson will show more than any big.  It is point guard game, but seeing DWill play 31 minutes today, you have to be impressed with
him, so I expect a big fight between those 2 next year in minutes played.  John Dawson might get some time there as well.  Next year, MU might be deeper than this year.

[brewcity77]

Looking at Pomeroy this morning, I noticed that of our 9 returning players that have played enough to garner a rating, 8 of them have an offensive rating over 100. As good as I think we can be this year (and I still think we have a ways to go) we can be ridiculously good next year. With how this team is set up, I really think we could make a late-season run that draws in the attention and could spend most of next year as a top-10 team, if not top-5.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Speaking of next year... how many players will be on the roster???  It looks like we could have enough for three teams!

[BCHoopster]

To many right now, jake Thomas and Garret Swanson are walk-ons, 14 other players for next year, must lose 1 somewhere, right now the question might be, does Chris O'Tule want
to come back for his 6th year.  He is a piece to the puzzle, and a nice back-up/starter at the center position, so it would not be bad for him to comeback.  So that will leave somebody
else out in the cold unless someone wants to fork over $50K to stay on the team.  Another point I want to bring up about freshman,  Steven Adams on draft express is the 20th pick
in the first round, I see some potential but he needs 3 more years in college.  The NBA and college need to change the rule, these kids are no where ready for the NBA.  The D-league
franchises must love it.

[Dawson Rental]

To many right now, jake Thomas and Garret Swanson are walk-ons, 14 other players for next year, must lose 1 somewhere, right now the question might be, does Chris O'Tule want
to come back for his 6th year.  He is a piece to the puzzle, and a nice back-up/starter at the center position, so it would not be bad for him to comeback.  So that will leave somebody
else out in the cold unless someone wants to fork over $50K to stay on the team.  Another point I want to bring up about freshman,  Steven Adams on draft express is the 20th pick
in the first round, I see some potential but he needs 3 more years in college.  The NBA and college need to change the rule, these kids are no where ready for the NBA.  The D-league
franchises must love it.

A law/rule that says that people must play for 50k in benefits toward a degree that they might not even want (wise or not), instead of playing for a few million dollars in the developmental league wouldn't be the same as slavery, but it would be in the same general vicinity.

[macman320]

Anyone have any idea what the chances are that blue will leave for a pro career? Not whether he could make it, but if he personally is considering it?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

A law/rule that says that people must play for 50k in benefits toward a degree that they might not even want (wise or not), instead of playing for a few million dollars in the developmental league wouldn't be the same as slavery, but it would be in the same general vicinity.

They don't HAVE to play college ball. They can play in europe, or the globetrotters, or in their local gym/playground.

Now, I'm not saying the NBA should make a college degree mandatory, but the idea that college basketball is like slavery is just a bit over the top, no?

General vicinity? Not really.

[AirPunches]

Anyone have any idea what the chances are that blue will leave for a pro career? Not whether he could make it, but if he personally is considering it?

Oh yeah. We will have more than enough spots next year. I think theres a good chance Blue and Mayo leave, Otule doesn't come back, and possibly Ferguson transfers (maybe to play with his brothers closer to home). At least one of those guys won't be back and it could be all of them. If I were Jake Thomas, I wouldn't count out getting a scholarship all three years.

[jeffreyweee]

I don't see Vander or Mayo leaving and I bet Jamal sticks around another year. He's shown some flashes and could be a huge asset later on with his length and athleticism. It'll be a very interesting off season.

[Windyplayer]

I think theres a good chance Blue and Mayo

What on earth are you talking about?

[BossplayaOtto]

Oh yeah. We will have more than enough spots next year. I think theres a good chance Blue and Mayo leave, Otule doesn't come back, and possibly Ferguson transfers (maybe to play with his brothers closer to home). At least one of those guys won't be back and it could be all of them. If I were Jake Thomas, I wouldn't count out getting a scholarship all three years.

So Jake Thomas gets 6 years of eligibility?

[GGGG]

 

So Jake Thomas gets 6 years of eligibility?

Next year will be his third year at MU and fifth year of eligibility (redshirt transfer year)...and very likely not on scholarship. 

[GGGG]

The NBA and college need to change the rule, these kids are no where ready for the NBA.  The D-league
franchises must love it.

Many of them aren't ready...but many of them are.  The NBA isn't beholden to improve the quality of college basketball.

[avid1010]

They don't HAVE to play college ball. They can play in europe, or the globetrotters, or in their local gym/playground.

Now, I'm not saying the NBA should make a college degree mandatory, but the idea that college basketball is like slavery is just a bit over the top, no?

General vicinity? Not really.

i don't know...it's not like these universities would give a s--t about these kids if they couldn't make money for them, and in return they get a fraction of the profits made off of them.  if the ncaa really wanted to put a profit sharing program in place they could...retirement plan, free continuing education, etc. 

i wouldn't blame the ncaa for putting an age restriction in either...if they thought it would be in the best interest of their league.  i'm not sure it's needed... 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

i don't know...it's not like these universities would give a s--t about these kids if they couldn't make money for them, and in return they get a fraction of the profits made off of them.  if the ncaa really wanted to put a profit sharing program in place they could...retirement plan, free continuing education, etc. 

i wouldn't blame the ncaa for putting an age restriction in either...if they thought it would be in the best interest of their league.  i'm not sure it's needed... 

Again, they don't HAVE to play if they don't want to.

I interned for free one summer. That company got some decent work from me for free. Was that slavery?

No.

College athletics is not slavery. Hell, its not even "unfair". Its an exchange of goods and services. If the players think they are getting a raw deal, they can play elsewhere.

[martyconlonontherun]

I never understood the argument that players develop better in college than the pros. If you look at the percentage of hs draftees, they were extremely successful. Part of that is they had pure talent, but I think it helped they had professional training playing against the worlds best competition. You really think Vander blue would be better with buzz ( and other coaches who focus more on recruiting) and being guarded by jake Thomas OR playing in the nba and playing against professionals every day?

Plus if they can get the money, they should take it. School can always wait if they actually want an education.

[Dawson Rental]

They don't HAVE to play college ball. They can play in europe, or the globetrotters, or in their local gym/playground.

Now, I'm not saying the NBA should make a college degree mandatory, but the idea that college basketball is like slavery is just a bit over the top, no?

General vicinity? Not really.

Whatever you doing for a living that enjoy and are good at, why don't you send me 3/4's of what you make because I have a rule...

Ridiculous, isn't it.  Now that the shoe's on your foot.

[GGGG]

Whatever you doing for a living that enjoy and are good at, why don't you send me 3/4's of what you make because I have a rule...

Ridiculous, isn't it.  Now that the shoe's on your foot.

Where did you come up with the 3/4 figure?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Whatever you doing for a living that enjoy and are good at, why don't you send me 3/4's of what you make because I have a rule...

Ridiculous, isn't it.  Now that the shoe's on your foot.

Nobody is pulling the rug out from under these kids. They know the deal going into it.

If you took 3/4 of my paycheck, I'd find a new job.

This isn't that complicated.

These kids aren't secretly getting screwed. If they don't like the deal, don't play ball. Go to Europe, go to China, play tennis or baseball.

They have choices. That's the thing you are missing.

[Dawson Rental]

Where did you come up with the 3/4 figure?

I like Guns n Ammo, so I left him 15% more than I should have.  Nothing to do with differences between NBA earnings and scholarship values.

[Dawson Rental]

They don't HAVE to play college ball. They can play in europe, or the globetrotters, or in their local gym/playground.

Now, I'm not saying the NBA should make a college degree mandatory, but the idea that college basketball is like slavery is just a bit over the top, no?

General vicinity? Not really.

"They don't HAVE to play college ball. They can play in europe, or the globetrotters, or in their local gym/playground."

I think that we can all agree that what we are talking about here is not whether players who would enter the draft have been banned from playing the game.  The issue is whether they have been banned from playing/working for a sum of money that by any measure would be extraordinary for just about anyone to earn.  Europe and the globetrotters aren't close to paying what an NBA first round draft pick gets.  Although Brandon Jennings did show that Europe could work for a year as an alternative to the NCAA for a player who would be under consideration to be drafted out of HS.

"the idea that college basketball is like slavery is just a bit over the top, no?"

I didn't say it was like slavery.

"General vicinity? Not really."

There we go, that's what I called it.  What would you call it when you are talking about banning someone who has extraordinary talent from selling that talent to a willing buyer for 1 to 4 million a year for several years under a guaranteed contract?  Keep in mind that discussion was started by BCHoopster  suggesting that that current one year ban be extended to additional years.

Again, they don't HAVE to play if they don't want to.

I interned for free one summer. That company got some decent work from me for free. Was that slavery?

No.

College athletics is not slavery. Hell, its not even "unfair". Its an exchange of goods and services. If the players think they are getting a raw deal, they can play elsewhere.

"I interned for free one summer. That company got some decent work from me for free. Was that slavery?

No."

Let's suppose that you are an engineer.  Did you have an offer from an engineering firm to work for $10,000 a month for the summer that you had pulled when the firm was told by their industry association that they couldn't offer to pay you because it was against an agreement that all employers of engineering students had agreed to?  Hell, just go over to Europe and work for an engineering firm there for the summer.

No, it wasn't slavery, but, it was very similar to what HS basketball players do every summer in HS when they play on AAU teams.  You couldn't have gotten any kind of job that would be close to what you were going to be able to get as a graduate, and say in a year when you did graduate you had a leg up on other graduates in both experience and interviewing savvy because you had a summer in working in your field.  Again, it's totally different from having someone wanting to pay you big bucks not being able to because of some rule.

"College athletics is not slavery. Hell, its not even "unfair". Its an exchange of goods and services. If the players think they are getting a raw deal, they can play elsewhere."

In the vast majority of cases, I agree with you.  In the few, rare case where a player is going to be drafted in the first round and given a guaranteed contract, you're wrong, IMO.  Europe ain't the same money.  The playground?  Well, I'm not aware of a way to make money at the playground, but maybe you can make some like at the pool hall... again, not NBA money.

Nobody is pulling the rug out from under these kids. They know the deal going into it.

If you took 3/4 of my paycheck, I'd find a new job.

This isn't that complicated.

These kids aren't secretly getting screwed. If they don't like the deal, don't play ball. Go to Europe, go to China, play tennis or baseball.

They have choices. That's the thing you are missing.

"If you took 3/4 of my paycheck, I'd find a new job."


Okay, but the rules say, you have to go to Europe, or be on the road the whole time, AND make only a fraction of the salary you are giving up just to avoid giving me my cut.

"play tennis or baseball."

So, you're position is that;
  a) anyone who is a gifted basketball player, could, if they so choose, also be a gifted tennis or baseball player, and
  b) tennis and basketball pay gifted 18 year olds the same as the NBA.

B actually doesn't seem that farfetched to me.  Although, as rare as the basketball who could be drafted after one year (or no years) of college basketball is, I think that the 18 year old that can make 1 to 4 million a year on the international tennis circuit is an even rarer athlete.  

I'm just not buying "A" though.  Especially when you consider that most of the basketball players we are talking about arguably do not have access to baseball training and facilities and especially tennis training facilities like they do for basketball.  As to the claim that if you can play one sport, you could have played any of them, I'll just admit that I have no data, I just think that the claim is dubious.

[avid1010]

Nobody is pulling the rug out from under these kids. They know the deal going into it.

If you took 3/4 of my paycheck, I'd find a new job.

This isn't that complicated.

These kids aren't secretly getting screwed. If they don't like the deal, don't play ball. Go to Europe, go to China, play tennis or baseball.

They have choices. That's the thing you are missing.

a quick wikipedia search:
Indentured servitude was a form of debt bondage, established in the early years of the American colonies. Farmers, planters, and shopkeepers in the colonies found it very difficult to hire free workers, primarily because it was so easy for potential workers to set up their own farms.[1] Consequently, a common solution was to transport a young worker from England or Germany, who would work for several years to pay off the debt of their travel costs. During the indenture period the servants were not paid wages, but were provided with food, accommodation, clothing and training. The indenture document specified how many years the servant would be required to work, after which they would be free.

i'm not sure how i feel about paying players, but i do believe the ncaa is greedy and will screw kids over for profit.  the ncaa does very little to protect the student athlete.  say there was an even split and half the teams left the ncaa for another organization that put some kind of compensation plan together for players...the ncaa would do the same pretty quickly.

[avid1010]

probably a dumb question...would it ever be allowable for a recruit to make a request of university in exchange for signing.  like requesting mu to donate a low income academic scholarship to his high school?

it seems like there has to be some way for kids to negotiate a little bit...

[Dawson Rental]

probably a dumb question...would it ever be allowable for a recruit to make a request of university in exchange for signing.  like requesting mu to donate a low income academic scholarship to his high school?

it seems like there has to be some way for kids to negotiate a little bit...

It's allowable for a kid to ask for anything.  It's absolutely prohibited for a school to agree to or provide any enie weinie thing.  Including, last I heard, cream cheese for after practice bagels.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

"They don't HAVE to play college ball. They can play in europe, or the globetrotters, or in their local gym/playground."

I think that we can all agree that what we are talking about here is not whether players who would enter the draft have been banned from playing the game.  The issue is whether they have been banned from playing/working for a sum of money that by any measure would be extraordinary for just about anyone to earn.  Europe and the globetrotters aren't close to paying what an NBA first round draft pick gets.  Although Brandon Jennings did show that Europe could work for a year as an alternative to the NCAA for a player who would be under consideration to be drafted out of HS.

"the idea that college basketball is like slavery is just a bit over the top, no?"

I didn't say it was like slavery.

"General vicinity? Not really."

There we go, that's what I called it.  What would you call it when you are talking about banning someone who has extraordinary talent from selling that talent to a willing buyer for 1 to 4 million a year for several years under a guaranteed contract?  Keep in mind that discussion was started by BCHoopster  suggesting that that current one year ban be extended to additional years.

"I interned for free one summer. That company got some decent work from me for free. Was that slavery?

No."

Let's suppose that you are an engineer.  Did you have an offer from an engineering firm to work for $10,000 a month for the summer that you had pulled when the firm was told by their industry association that they couldn't offer to pay you because it was against an agreement that all employers of engineering students had agreed to?  Hell, just go over to Europe and work for an engineering firm there for the summer.

No, it wasn't slavery, but, it was very similar to what HS basketball players do every summer in HS when they play on AAU teams.  You couldn't have gotten any kind of job that would be close to what you were going to be able to get as a graduate, and say in a year when you did graduate you had a leg up on other graduates in both experience and interviewing savvy because you had a summer in working in your field.  Again, it's totally different from having someone wanting to pay you big bucks not being able to because of some rule.

"College athletics is not slavery. Hell, its not even "unfair". Its an exchange of goods and services. If the players think they are getting a raw deal, they can play elsewhere."

In the vast majority of cases, I agree with you.  In the few, rare case where a player is going to be drafted in the first round and given a guaranteed contract, you're wrong, IMO.  Europe ain't the same money.  The playground?  Well, I'm not aware of a way to make money at the playground, but maybe you can make some like at the pool hall... again, not NBA money.

"If you took 3/4 of my paycheck, I'd find a new job."


Okay, but the rules say, you have to go to Europe, or be on the road the whole time, AND make only a fraction of the salary you are giving up just to avoid giving me my cut.

"play tennis or baseball."

So, you're position is that;
  a) anyone who is a gifted basketball player, could, if they so choose, also be a gifted tennis or baseball player, and
  b) tennis and basketball pay gifted 18 year olds the same as the NBA.

B actually doesn't seem that farfetched to me.  Although, as rare as the basketball who could be drafted after one year (or no years) of college basketball is, I think that the 18 year old that can make 1 to 4 million a year on the international tennis circuit is an even rarer athlete.  

I'm just not buying "A" though.  Especially when you consider that most of the basketball players we are talking about arguably do not have access to baseball training and facilities and especially tennis training facilities like they do for basketball.  As to the claim that if you can play one sport, you could have played any of them, I'll just admit that I have no data, I just think that the claim is dubious.

I think we are getting tied up in some minutia and semantics.

I don't literally think that basketball players should suddenly switch sports in hopes of getting paid, I'm saying that nobody is forcing them into BASKETBALL. If they want to be a teenage professional, play something else. The NBA has had the 1 year rule in place for some time. This isn't new. 

The idea that the NBA and/or NCAA is similar to slavery is insane. These kids have a CHOICE on what they do. CHOICE. CHOICE. CHOICE. Doctor, lawyer, engineer, plumber, sanitation work, teacher, basketball player, firefighter etc. They are free to chose whatever they want. If they want to play basketball, they have to go to school. If you want to be a doctor, you have to go to school. If you want to be a lawyer, you have to pass the bar exam. If you want to trade stocks, you have to get a license. etc. etc. etc.

The NBA has a policy. It's not a secret policy. If the kid(s) don't like the policy, they don't have to play in the NCAA or the NBA. Easy. Easy. Easy. Choose another career. Choose another league. Choose another country. Choose another sport.