C7 Announcement Rumor

[GGGG]

Well, you know, except the Big 12

They do now....not completely so but much more equitable than previously.  Texas had to agree to that after it looked like the conference was going to fall apart.  It's a lesson to be learned.  The C7 have the advantages now, but will they 10 years from now?  

[GGGG]

Huh?  Tell that to that to Utah, Rutgers and the members of the B12 not named Texas or the ACC not named Notre Dame.  Hell, UND's soccer team got them a near guaranteed football game for not being in their football conference. 

Rutgers and Utah will both have equal shares after they buy their way into the league.  There is nothing wrong with that.  I agree that there should be a "sunset," but it shouldn't be a permanent inequality of revenue.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I just want to add one thing on the cost side of this partnership and tiers issues ..folks need to look at what the C7 is giving up in lost credits, revenue from other departees and potential exit fee....may be in the $10-$15 million dollar range per school...or more. It could take MU six or more years into this deal to make it better than what they may have to give up.

With the A10 structure, Dayton with few NCAA credits and only a $1mm exit fit, even at $2.5mm, goes into the black in Year1. They make money from the get go.  

It may take a full ten years of the deal to even these tiers out for the C7. Dayton won't be suffering.  

[WarriorDoc]

Ok, so let's assume a fair amount of money has been paid back to the C7 (say, cost plus fair return for risk taken, NCAA credits left on the table, exit fees that had to be paid, etc).  Whatever you want to call that amount, C7 schools got it.

Moving forward, wouldn't it be better for the conference to allow each team to have the same share of TV revenue?  That allows for equal reinvestment into the program, whether that program had a good or bad year.  In order for Dayton, SLU, etc to make it to the next level, they need those dollars to compete.

[🏀]

Kind of like Tennessee taking a teams's coach on the heels of a Sweet 16?

No doubt.

[NavinRJohnson]

Notre dame really is the only thing missing...if you went 7 + ND, Butler, and Xavier for a 10 team conference, not sure MU could have come out of this thing any better. How about helping facilitate a move to get UConn into the ACC in place of ND?

[brewcity77]

Ok, so let's assume a fair amount of money has been paid back to the C7 (say, cost plus fair return for risk taken, NCAA credits left on the table, exit fees that had to be paid, etc).  Whatever you want to call that amount, C7 schools got it.

Moving forward, wouldn't it be better for the conference to allow each team to have the same share of TV revenue?  That allows for equal reinvestment into the program, whether that program had a good or bad year.  In order for Dayton, SLU, etc to make it to the next level, they need those dollars to compete.

Sure. In 5-10 years, once we get there, sure. And I'm sure that we will either see a sunset, or if there's inequity through this deal, it will be resolved in the next TV contract that is renegotiated in 2023 or so. But until we have made back the considerable amount we will be spending, I would hope all of these programs that are being handed the Golden Ticket without having to buy a single Wonka Bar would understand just how much effort and cash we went through to provide the tickets for them.

[Avenue Commons]

Notre dame really is the only thing missing...if you went 7 + ND, Butler, and Xavier for a 10 team conference, not sure MU could have come out of this thing any better. How about helping facilitate a move to get UConn into the ACC in place of ND?

If Notre Dame knew then that there'd be the C7, maybe they would have done it differently.

What does ND get from ACC? Doesn't matter bc of their NBC football money, but I'm curious how competitive the C7 could be.

[GGGG]

If Notre Dame knew then that there'd be the C7, maybe they would have done it differently.

What does ND get from ACC? Doesn't matter bc of their NBC football money, but I'm curious how competitive the C7 could be.

They get access to ACC bowls on a rotating basis.  And honestly, the ACC is a better all-sports conference than the C7 will be.

[Benny B]

If Notre Dame knew then that there'd be the C7, maybe they would have done it differently.

What does ND get from ACC? Doesn't matter bc of their NBC football money, but I'm curious how competitive the C7 could be.

Such fuels the speculation that there remains an outside chance (IMO, <10%) that ND and Gonzaga bring the conference to 14.

ND's move to the ACC was strictly about housing its Olympic sports, so a few believe that there might still be an opportunity for them in a stabilized Big East / C7 conference.

They get access to ACC bowls on a rotating basis.  And honestly, the ACC is a better all-sports conference than the C7 will be.

Let's not kid anyone... ND will always have access to a bowl game, and with the playoff system on the horizon, these bowl contracts are going to become less and less important going forward.  As it is right now, unless you're in a BCS bowl game, you're likely breaking even at best; further, since the ACC is going to take the lion's share of any bowl money ND earns via ACC relationships, the ACC bowl pathways aren't exactly going to be a windfall for ND.

[brewcity77]

They get access to ACC bowls on a rotating basis.  And honestly, the ACC is a better all-sports conference than the C7 will be.

I still think they may have joined the C7. With ND, we'd still have an elite soccer league, an elite basketball league, and pretty good all-around sports. And they wouldn't be pressured every 5 minutes to become full members because they already would be.

That said, I think I'll be happier if we can get them as an annual home-and-home non-con series. Boosts our regular non-conference profile, lets us carry on the rivalry, and ensures that we won't be at the behest of football if some day the Irish are forced into a "join a league" scenario.

[ZMovieman]

Looks like Fox is meeting with the C7 today. And VCU looks like they could be in play...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20130109/catholic-7-tv/?sct=hp_t2_a5&eref=sihp

[boyonthedock]

good, I'd hope VCU takes the place of Dayton. I say this because their fans would have the most entertaining reactions of all the prospective borderline teams that might get left in the cold.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

Do people think Fox is the one pushing towards 12 teams? It seems to me that the C7 would want to keep things at 10 to keep the bottom of the league relatively high, maximize per school revenue, and have a nice round robin.

[chapman]

If Notre Dame knew then that there'd be the C7, maybe they would have done it differently.

Didn't Brey kind of allude to ND being aware of the early discussions?  Sounded like they knew it would happen and would have been on board, but the ACC invite came and was a better option for them.  The Bowl tie-ins are very important.

Do people think Fox is the one pushing towards 12 teams? It seems to me that the C7 would want to keep things at 10 to keep the bottom of the league relatively high, maximize per school revenue, and have a nice round robin.

Possibly.  But going with "strike while the iron is hot", now may be the best time to maximize the deal by giving them 12 teams.  Added risk by adding two in 3-5 years and going back to them to try to renegotiate for a better deal then when Fox has already filled their programming needs and has less interest in the marginal value of 12 vs. 10 than they do now.

[GGGG]

Do people think Fox is the one pushing towards 12 teams? It seems to me that the C7 would want to keep things at 10 to keep the bottom of the league relatively high, maximize per school revenue, and have a nice round robin.

Yes because Fox wants content.  10 schools playing 18 games is 90 conference games total.  12 schools playing 18 games is 108.  Plus you have rights to non-conference games at two additional arenas.

[Benny B]

Didn't Brey kind of allude to ND being aware of the early discussions?  Sounded like they knew it would happen and would have been on board, but the ACC invite came and was a better option for them.  The Bowl tie-ins are very important.

Brey made some mentions about the C7 meetings taking place just prior to the C7's "breakaway" announcement.  He may have earlier speculated that this was going to happen, but then again, people have been speculating on a basketball breakaway in the Big East since MU & DePaul were added in 2005.

The bottom line here is Brey made no mention - nor is there any indication - that ND knew that the C7 was imminent at the time ND accepted the ACC invite.

[brewcity77]

Yes because Fox wants content.  10 schools playing 18 games is 90 conference games total.  12 schools playing 18 games is 108.  Plus you have rights to non-conference games at two additional arenas.

Especially if the two additional do end up being VCU and Creighton. Richmond is a solid market and VCU has some of that "it" factor with Shaka at the helm, so I think they'll actually draw eyes. And Creighton IS basketball in Nebraska. No one cares about what the Cornhuskers are doing from December through March (except for their bowl game). In a state where college basketball is the only basketball going, Creighton is the unquestioned top dog.

[WarriorInNYC]

Looks like Fox is meeting with the C7 today. And VCU looks like they could be in play...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20130109/catholic-7-tv/?sct=hp_t2_a5&eref=sihp

The way this article is written it sounds as though this announcement that was rumored for today might not actually take place today.  Especially as it mentions that none of the presidents will be present at the meeting.

[Coleman]

I actually like the idea of unequal shares to the newcomers with them having the ability to "earn" equal distribution, instead of a time sunset.

For example, Dayton makes 2 consecutive NCAA tournaments, or wins a conference championship. Something of that nature.

[brewcity77]

The way this article is written it sounds as though this announcement that was rumored for today might not actually take place today.  Especially as it mentions that none of the presidents will be present at the meeting.

I really feel the announcement is still a little ways off, possibly won't come until early March, which might be good to have everyone talking about our new league throughout the tournament. Especially if teams like Creighton, Butler, VCU, and us can make nice little runs.

We know we're moving, we probably know 3-4 of the 5 teams that will be coming along, and I'm guessing most of those teams know it as well. My only worry is going into next year without any TV deal.

[Dawson Rental]

Notre dame really is the only thing missing...if you went 7 + ND, Butler, and Xavier for a 10 team conference, not sure MU could have come out of this thing any better. How about helping facilitate a move to get UConn into the ACC in place of ND?

If Notre Dame knew then that there'd be the C7, maybe they would have done it differently.

What does ND get from ACC? Doesn't matter bc of their NBC football money, but I'm curious how competitive the C7 could be.

Talk of Notre Dame being interested in being a part of the C7 is as delusional as talk on the Dayton board of the C7 only getting a TV contract because of the A-10 teams that they would be adding was.

[icheights]

I know I should be happy that MU is in much better shape than they were a month ago...but I just can't get over the disappointment of going from a top conference in the nation to what? the 5th to 7th best conference? I will forever hate West Virginia, Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville, Cincinatti...I hope they lose every football game they play fror the rest of time.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Ok, so let's assume a fair amount of money has been paid back to the C7 (say, cost plus fair return for risk taken, NCAA credits left on the table, exit fees that had to be paid, etc).  Whatever you want to call that amount, C7 schools got it.

Moving forward, wouldn't it be better for the conference to allow each team to have the same share of TV revenue?  That allows for equal reinvestment into the program, whether that program had a good or bad year.  In order for Dayton, SLU, etc to make it to the next level, they need those dollars to compete.

X--

Look at it this way.  With NCAA credits, forfeiture fees, MU has $10mm cash in the bank in 2013 if they stand pat in the BE.  Bankble hard cash they were going to use to build a new indoor soccer and track facility at a very low interest rate time that they could also borrow against. With the C7+...they will most likely lose that to pay their own exit fees, MSG rights/guarentees, and naming rights.  In addition, the C7 will have to also incur real hard costs in 2013--whether legal, administrative, physical (real estate, servers, office and media equipment, agency fees, etc)...so let's call it $12mm to $15mm total out of MU's pocket to start with...if not more considering cost of capital, opportunity costs now incurred on their own indoor facility or non-revenue sports budgets shortfalls/investments like their new lacrosse teams.

Dayton has a $1mm exit fee and a few dollars in NCAA credits...but an increase in media of $2mm per year.  MU increases its revenue to $5mm with their media but also incurs losses of what would have been if they stood pat of, let's say as its close, $2.5mm per year of the above....a net of $2.5mm for both schools in Year 2.  Is that parity enough for the A10 schools?  

Frankly, I would be glad if the A10 joined with the C7 on the cost side...ponied in their share of the near $90mm cost pool the C7+5 schools are giving up...and we all start at $3.1 per year on the media deal.  A partnership is a two way street...and when you make these big league deals, you need to realize what it takes.  That includes facility investment, NCAA credits earned, retaining coaches, delivering TV markets, being good in all non-revenue sports.  Those are all part of the partnership too...including for some of the C7 schools as well.  I think X and Butler are closer to delivering on that...but consider the whole deal.

[NavinRJohnson]

I really feel the announcement is still a little ways off, possibly won't come until early March, which might be good to have everyone talking about our new league throughout the tournament.

I agree. I would look for something a bit more formal around conference tournament time, particularly if the Big East name and MSG survive. Though ESPN will of course want no part of it if the deal is in fact with Fox.

Regardless of how it all shakes out, this year's BET is going to present a very interesting dynamic.