[PaintTouches]Confirmed, disproved and learned: Marquette through 12 games

[PaintTouchesSays]

Confirmed, disproved and learned: Marquette through 12 games
      

Written by: Mark Strotman
            

Marquette completed its non-conference schedule Saturday with a 75-66 win over North Carolina Central, moving the Golden Eagles to 9-3. With the Big East season around 48 hours away, it's time to look back on the first two months of ... Continue reading →


            

http://painttouches.com/2012/12/31/confirmed-disproved-and-learned-marquette-through-12-games-2/
      

[tower912]

Can't argue with much there. 

[MU82]

Can folks please stop saying that if Clark's miracle shot had not gone in to give Butler its win over us, we'd be 11-1?

I mean, it's not exactly a given that our mighty Warriors would have then cruised to victories over North Carolina and Illinois to take the Maui tourney.

[brewcity77]

Can folks please stop saying that if Clark's miracle shot had not gone in to give Butler its win over us, we'd be 11-1?

I mean, it's not exactly a given that our mighty Warriors would have then cruised to victories over North Carolina and Illinois to take the Maui tourney.

First of all, it's also assuming Thomas' shot had fallen and UWGB had not replied in the remaining seconds.

But if you have a better way of writing it, let's hear it. "If two shots had gone the other way, and Marquette had had the same results against UNC and Illinois they did against Mississippi State and USC we'd be 11-1" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

We are 2 shots away from winning 2 games we lost. The easiest way to write that is "11-1". Yes, there are always variables, but the easiest and most sensible way to write 2 more wins from 9-3 is 11-1. I don't think anyone would dispute that.

[MU82]

First of all, it's also assuming Thomas' shot had fallen and UWGB had not replied in the remaining seconds.

But if you have a better way of writing it, let's hear it. "If two shots had gone the other way, and Marquette had had the same results against UNC and Illinois they did against Mississippi State and USC we'd be 11-1" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

We are 2 shots away from winning 2 games we lost. The easiest way to write that is "11-1". Yes, there are always variables, but the easiest and most sensible way to write 2 more wins from 9-3 is 11-1. I don't think anyone would dispute that.

It might not have the same ring to it, but it would be exponentially more accurate.

"If we had rallied late and beaten Florida last year, we'd have finished as national champions" sure is a lot easier and more sensible than:

"If we'd have beaten Florida, we'd have had a chance to get revenge against Louisville. And if we got past Louisville to get into the Final Four, we'd have been a major underdog against Kentucky but would have had a shot to beat them if we played our best game and they weren't at their best. Then we would have faced a great Kansas team in the championship game and if we were hitting on all cylinders, we could have won the national title."

[MattyWarrior]

I really like Juan Anderson and Steve Taylor, I think they will give a great boost to this squad
before all is said and done. The preseason was about what I expected, given all the distractions
with a new staff..

[brewcity77]

It might not have the same ring to it, but it would be exponentially more accurate.

"If we had rallied late and beaten Florida last year, we'd have finished as national champions" sure is a lot easier and more sensible than:

"If we'd have beaten Florida, we'd have had a chance to get revenge against Louisville. And if we got past Louisville to get into the Final Four, we'd have been a major underdog against Kentucky but would have had a shot to beat them if we played our best game and they weren't at their best. Then we would have faced a great Kansas team in the championship game and if we were hitting on all cylinders, we could have won the national title."

I think it's a lot less of a stretch to think we'd have won on days when we actually played and won games than it is to forecast one additional victory as leading to a national championship and three more games played.

Again, if you can find a way to say it as succinctly and more accurately, fine. But if you don't, no real sense in complaining, is there?

[brewcity77]

Oh...and a couple issues with this.

1. Trent Lockett isn't the player he was at Arizona State DISPROVED

What you wrote indicates that Lockett indeed is not the player he was at ASU. Wouldn't the point that he hasn't been the same player have been confirmed?

5. Jamil Wilson still hasn't found his "killer instinct" DISPROVED

In the response to this point you say "That killer instinct Aki Collins mentioned last season, when he said Wilson needs to know how good he really is, has been non-existent" which is pretty firm proof that him not finding his killer instinct has been proven, not disproved.

8. Marquette is two shots away from being 11-1 LEARNED

I agree from an argument of succinctness, but as MU82 pointed out, we didn't really "learn" that because of the variables from after Clarke's shot. I do believe we'd be 11-1, but we can't say it for fact.

11. Todd Mayo won't answer everything, but his return could be huge CONFIRMED

It seems that playing one good half against NCCU is hardly confirming that his return will be huge. I hope it will be, and I suppose you used the word "could", but that half is about as indicative of how huge his return could be as it was evidence that the sun could rise in the west tomorrow.

Maybe I'm being a bit of a Grammar Nazi, but a few of those confused me in terms of the way they were written, just wanted to figure out exactly what you meant.

[strotty]

The statement after each number is what is true so far, not a preseason expectation.

The "confirm, disprove, learn" is based on preseason. Maybe that is confusing.

As for Mayo, his return is huge for Marquette. They're a better team, a deeper team and have another outside scorer. I had him as Marquette's sixth most important player coming into the year.

[GGGG]

No brew, you are correct.  Sometimes I think PT tries to impress with complexity when simplicity could get the job done just fine.

[brewcity77]

The statement after each number is what is true so far, not a preseason expectation.

The "confirm, disprove, learn" is based on preseason. Maybe that is confusing.

As for Mayo, his return is huge for Marquette. They're a better team, a deeper team and have another outside scorer. I had him as Marquette's sixth most important player coming into the year.

Still confused. So before the season, the assumption was that Lockett wasn't the same player and Wilson hadn't found his killer instinct, but the "disproved" indicates that those are false statements, meaning that Lockett is the same player and Wilson has found his killer instinct?

And as far as Mayo...he's still an "if". We don't know if we'll get the Todd that we had in the non-con last year and against NCCU, or the Todd that couldn't contribute in the Big East. I hope he helps, but I just don't think anyone could say he will for certain. I agree that he should make us better and deeper, I just don't think you can concretely say it's an absolute.

[BCHoopster]

Brew, MU will be better with Mayo on the court as he is bigger, quicker, better player than Thomas.  So that is a plus.  Defensively he is a huge improvement, hope we does not
play like last year in the Big East, he was basically on O side nonexistent.

[Les Nessman]

I'm with you Brew. The wording of the expectations and conclusions (confirmed, disproved, learned) don't jive. If the expectation is that Davante is going to be the best player on the team since he has another year under his belt then the expectation was confirmed, not learned.

In general, I think this whole article could have just stated the "Realities" of the season with the blurb beneath each and been a lot less confusing.

[MU82]

I think it's a lot less of a stretch to think we'd have won on days when we actually played and won games than it is to forecast one additional victory as leading to a national championship and three more games played.

Again, if you can find a way to say it as succinctly and more accurately, fine. But if you don't, no real sense in complaining, is there?

Ah, I was just givin' ya crap, brew. Don't pay me no never mind!

Happy New Year to you and everybody else in ScoopLand!!

[Jay Bee]

The wording of the expectations and conclusions (confirmed, disproved, learned) don't jive.

hi