C7 teams struggling mightily this weekend

[ChicosBailBonds]

We barely get by North Carolina Central.

Providence loses to Brown

DePaul lose to Loyola (IL) at home.

Seton hall beats Stony Brook by 1 point at home.

Nova and New Jersey Institute of Technology was a 3 point game with under 3 minutes to play...Nova hangs on


Non C-7, but the rest of the Big East struggling as well the past few days

Rutgers up 3 with five minutes to go at home against Rider....won the game by hitting FT's at the end

Cincinnati loses at home to New Mexico by 1

Hopefully Louisville, UCONN and Syracuse can win today.  Not a pretty weekend for our conference.

[Lennys Tap]

We barely get by North Carolina Central.

Providence loses to Brown

DePaul lose to Loyola (IL) at home.

Seton hall beats Stony Brook by 1 point at home.

Nova and New Jersey Institute of Technology was a 3 point game with under 3 minutes to play...Nova hangs on


Non C-7, but the rest of the Big East struggling as well the past few days

Rutgers up 3 with five minutes to go at home against Rider....won the game by hitting FT's at the end

Cincinnati loses at home to New Mexico by 1

Hopefully Louisville, UCONN and Syracuse can win today.  Not a pretty weekend for our conference.

Until 3 days ago the Big East had a MUCH better winning pct than your beloved Big 10 (.816 to .785) as of Thursday. You evidently didn't even notice. Two bad days by our conference and you're all over it. Why am I not surprised?

[🏀]

Another reason why Dayton is far superior to the C7.

[The Equalizer]

Until 3 days ago the Big East had a MUCH better winning pct than your beloved Big 10 (.816 to .785) as of Thursday. You evidently didn't even notice. Two bad days by our conference and you're all over it. Why am I not surprised?

Big East teams aren't supposed to lose to Loyola, Brown or NC-Ashville or find themselves in close games against NC Central, Stony Brook, or NJIT.  

And its hardly been two bad days by the C7--this has been going on all season.  Outside of Georgetown, nobody has looked consistently good--and the BE winning perecentage would be close to 90% if you exclude the C7.

Given the C7 is going into TV contract negotiations for a new league, its a particualrly bad time for its teams to collectively lay an egg.  

[Galway Eagle]

Big East teams aren't supposed to lose to Loyola, Brown or NC-Ashville or find themselves in close games against NC Central, Stony Brook, or NJIT.  

And its hardly been two bad days by the C7--this has been going on all season.  Outside of Georgetown, nobody has looked consistently good--and the BE winning perecentage would be close to 90% if you exclude the C7.

Given the C7 is going into TV contract negotiations for a new league, its a particualrly bad time for its teams to collectively lay an egg.  

Seton Hall beat Brown.  

[Galway Eagle]

We'll be ok, I mean TV negotiations aren't just on a year by year basis.  They're gonna look at what the future likely holds as well.  I mean Butler was crap last year and it's not like suddenly the A10 didn't want them because they'd ruin their product. 

[79Warrior]

Big East teams aren't supposed to lose to Loyola, Brown or NC-Ashville or find themselves in close games against NC Central, Stony Brook, or NJIT.  

And its hardly been two bad days by the C7--this has been going on all season.  Outside of Georgetown, nobody has looked consistently good--and the BE winning perecentage would be close to 90% if you exclude the C7.

Given the C7 is going into TV contract negotiations for a new league, its a particualrly bad time for its teams to collectively lay an egg.  

Stony Brook is actually a decent team.

[The Equalizer]

Seton Hall beat Brown.  

Providence didn't. 

[Pakuni]

 Time to get down on our knees and beg the mighty A-10 for an invite.
Either that or .... who cares?

[MattyWarrior]

Read Anthony Collins of USF taken off court with no arm or leg movement and head stabilized. Send prayers.

[AirPunches]

Saw the play. It looked pretty bad. Kind of reminded me of Nick Collins' injury a year or two back. I think Anthony Collins will be done for the year. Really a shame and huge loss for them. Hope he is going to be ok.

[cheebs09]

Supposedly he was moving his arms and legs as he was coming off. Sounds positive. Hopefully he makes a full recovery.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I was merely pointing out what seemed a poor weekend.  I know the records against opponents is very good for the conference, but there are some squeakers in there that make you wonder.

Much like MU, I can't get my head around this conference or this team this year.  Louisville and Cincinnati seem quite good.  Syracuse as well.  UCONN is more than capable.  Georgetown's defense looks very solid but they struggle to score. 

Someone pointed out that our SOS in conference is going to help us and I would agree.  That might be our saving grace, though on the flip side we will need a few signature wins and right now we don't have any.  Have a chance at two next week at home. 

On the C7 front, I would say only one of the C7 schools today would make the NCAA tournament.  G'Town.  Fortunately, the selections aren't today.  Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul, Villanova, St. John's would not make it.  MU would be iffy, and as of today probably not.   Lots of golf left, but some of the programs need to step up.

[KenoshaWarrior]

I was merely pointing out what seemed a poor weekend.  I know the records against opponents is very good for the conference, but there are some squeakers in there that make you wonder.

Much like MU, I can't get my head around this conference or this team this year.  Louisville and Cincinnati seem quite good.  Syracuse as well.  UCONN is more than capable.  Georgetown's defense looks very solid but they struggle to score. 

Someone pointed out that our SOS in conference is going to help us and I would agree.  That might be our saving grace, though on the flip side we will need a few signature wins and right now we don't have any.  Have a chance at two next week at home. 

On the C7 front, I would say only one of the C7 schools today would make the NCAA tournament.  G'Town.  Fortunately, the selections aren't today.  Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul, Villanova, St. John's would not make it.  MU would be iffy, and as of today probably not.   Lots of golf left, but some of the programs need to step up.

Lets base this new conference thing on one week of non-con play in December.  Good idea!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Lets base this new conference thing on one week of non-con play in December.  Good idea!

Not what I was doing.  However, if you wish to go by the non-conference season so far of the C7, only one team today would get into the tournament.  A lot of golf left, but the C7 schools need to step it up. 

[chapman]

I don't know whether to find it reassuring or concerning that we seem to be far from the only ones who kind of stink so far.

[Pakuni]

Big East teams aren't supposed to lose to Loyola, Brown or NC-Ashville or find themselves in close games against NC Central, Stony Brook, or NJIT.  

And its hardly been two bad days by the C7--this has been going on all season.  Outside of Georgetown, nobody has looked consistently good--and the BE winning perecentage would be close to 90% if you exclude the C7.

Given the C7 is going into TV contract negotiations for a new league, its a particualrly bad time for its teams to collectively lay an egg.  

Big 10 teams aren't supposed to lose to Patriot League teams (Bucknell 70, Purdue 65); Horizon League teams (UIC 50, Northwestern 44); or MAC teams (Akron 85, Penn State 60).
Nor should they find themselves in close games with teams like Louisiana-Lafayette (MSU wins by 3); Gardner-Webb (Illinois wins by 1); or Jacksonville State (Nebraska wins by 4).

Of course that, like what you said, is utter nonsense. These kind of games are supposed to happen, and they happen every year. Heck, they practically happen every week before conference play begins. The real potential for David over Goliath upsets is what makes college hoops uniquely great, something that occurs with far less frequency in any other major sport.

The TV contract stuff is nonsense as well. The value and extent of a multi-year television contract is going to be determined by how many eyes the programs and potential matchups can attract, not by how the teams perform in one month of one non-conference season.

[Zephyr820]

This is the reality that is right under the surface.  Most of the 7 are turds.  Aligning too strongly to weakness runs off.  It's why these new teams need added NOW.  Butler and Creighton both soon to be in the Top 15 counteract this stuff perception-wise

[ChicosBailBonds]

Expected RPI finishes for the C7 right now...yes, still early but as the RPI gurus will tell you once you get to about mid January a lot of the cooking has been done.  We're not there yet but the clock is ticking.

Data as of the 28th of December

RPI Year End Forecast

55.9  Georgetown
60.1  Marquette   (picks us 9-9 in conference and 18-12 overall, 3-7 vs RPI top 50, 8-10 vs RPI top 100)
79.0  Seton Hall
95.6  St. John's
103.2 Providence
107.3 Villanova
117.5 DePaul


For giggles, here are the expected finishes of the some of the schools rumored in the conference

12.2  Gonzaga
14.4  VCU
27.8  Creighton
38.1  Butler
58.1  St. Mary's
60.9  SLU
71.4  Dayton
93.9  Xavier

[keefe]

Expected RPI finishes for the C7 right now...yes, still early but as the RPI gurus will tell you once you get to about mid January a lot of the cooking has been done.  We're not there yet but the clock is ticking.

Data as of the 28th of December

RPI Year End Forecast

55.9  Georgetown
60.1  Marquette   (picks us 9-9 in conference and 18-12 overall, 3-7 vs RPI top 50, 8-10 vs RPI top 100)
79.0  Seton Hall
95.6  St. John's
103.2 Providence
107.3 Villanova
117.5 DePaul


For giggles, here are the expected finishes of the some of the schools rumored in the conference

12.2  Gonzaga
14.4  VCU
27.8  Creighton
38.1  Butler
58.1  St. Mary's
60.9  SLU
71.4  Dayton
93.9  Xavier

Where is BYU? Why did you include Dayton?

[Dr. Blackheart]

RealTime and Pomeroy has the B1G and the BE as 1-2.  The ACC, SEC, B12 are way down this year...in fact the MWC is the one way up in the Power Rankings.  As down as the BE is, others are down even more.  I think the thing about the B1G is that they have teams now like Michigan, Indiana, Iowa, even PSU now who have brought in high tempo, high powered offenses.

http://realtimerpi.com/ncaab/conf_Men.html

[ChicosBailBonds]

RealTime and Pomeroy has the B1G and the BE as 1-2.  The ACC, SEC, B12 are way down this year...in fact the MWC is the one way up in the Power Rankings.  As down as the BE is, others are down even more.  I think the thing about the B1G is that they have teams now like Michigan, Indiana, Iowa, even PSU now who have brought in high tempo, high powered offenses.

http://realtimerpi.com/ncaab/conf_Men.html

Correct, though realtimerpi's data is different than every other RPI site out there.  I'd be weary of that.  They have been off all year long compared to the other 6 that I use.  Every other RPI service has Big East 3rd, which is still solid. 

My comments aren't about the Big East, the conference is doing pretty well overall...I'm concerned about the C7 within the BE.  Not doing well.  The BE conference right now is being driven by the success of Louisville, Cincinnati, Syracuse, Pitt, and ND.  Only one C7 school is in the top 7 and the C7 occupies five of the last six positions right now.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Where is BYU? Why did you include Dayton?

Because Dayton has been legitimately mentioned, BYU hasn't.

BYU is 67.8 expected finish, better than almost every C7 school. 

[forgetful]

Because Dayton has been legitimately mentioned, BYU hasn't.

BYU is 67.8 expected finish, better than almost every C7 school. 

So BYU would be 3rd out of 8 or in other words middle of the pack/38th percentile.

[The Equalizer]

Big 10 teams aren't supposed to lose to Patriot League teams (Bucknell 70, Purdue 65); Horizon League teams (UIC 50, Northwestern 44); or MAC teams (Akron 85, Penn State 60).
Nor should they find themselves in close games with teams like Louisiana-Lafayette (MSU wins by 3); Gardner-Webb (Illinois wins by 1); or Jacksonville State (Nebraska wins by 4).

Of course that, like what you said, is utter nonsense. These kind of games are supposed to happen, and they happen every year. Heck, they practically happen every week before conference play begins. The real potential for David over Goliath upsets is what makes college hoops uniquely great, something that occurs with far less frequency in any other major sport.

The original point was that six of the seven C7 underperformed against low-level opponents. 

Your counter seems to be that over the course of the entire non-conference schedule, the Big Ten has a handful of similar examples.  So what?  The Big Ten already has its own network, and is anchored at the top with Indiana, Michigan, MSU, Ohio State Minnesota, and Illinois. 

Plus, a close win over to a team like Gardner Webb is easier to pass of as an aberration when you have a Maui Championship, a road win over Gonzaga, and a single non-conference loss to a top 10 opponent. 

If all the teams of the C7 had offsetting quality performance similar to Illinois, this discussion doesn't happen.

Unfortunately, the past week for 6 of the C7 doesn't appear to be an aberration when you put it in context of the rest of each team's season.

The TV contract stuff is nonsense as well. The value and extent of a multi-year television contract is going to be determined by how many eyes the programs and potential matchups can attract, not by how the teams perform in one month of one non-conference season.

You don't think those executives are looking at the performance of the product when they guess how many eyes the programs and potential matchups can attract?   Is our new commissioner really going to be able to credibly claim that you can ignore the five-year track record of DePaul, St. Johns, Seton Hall, and Providence?  Ideally, we'd claim these programs have turned the corner.  But nobody can make that claim--not this year.  And unfortunately, this year is what the contract will likely be based on.

Sure, those TV execs want the product, but they also want to pay as little as possible for it--and this non-conference season (coupled with a five year track record) gives them the opening to question whether its really worth $3 million/year per team to get teams that year-in/year-out that are barely competitive with low-major programs.

Couple that with the current two-year decline of Villanova, and MU's current one-year slide, and as I said, its a particularly inopportune time to demonstrate mediocre performance.