Catholic 7 Meeting?

[🏀]

What a conference name of The B1G EAST.  I kid, I kid  

BIG EASt. The lower case 't' is actually a crucifix.

[Benny B]

Ok, lets change my language then.  For the next 6 months they have the ability to dissolve the conference and then divvy up the assets amongst the group.  Automatic bid would stay with the group because they will meet the requirements you've laid out eliminating concern number one.  First asset priority is the MSG contract, second is the Big East name.  There is also a ton of dough from the exit fees of previous schools to split.  Divide that up and then reincorporate as a new conference with either the BEast name or a new one and then invite schools and you are off.

This is exactly what I'm advocating is at the top of the C7's discussion agenda right now.

[🏀]

In either case if one more football school leaves in the next 6 months they can kick teams out.

Come on, Cincy.

[jsglow]

'But a number of sources couldn't confirm whether Temple, which is a football-only member this season, has a controlling vote. One Big East source said Temple has a vote on football issues but wasn't sure whether the Owls could use that vote for membership. If the Owls could, Temple likely would be the fourth vote preventing any dissolving of the league.'

This is the key to the puzzle.  Lawyers for the Catholic 7 must seemingly understand the window of control wem think they might have.  It would be very interesting to know exactly what rights Temple currently has.  I'd be working very hard to find a legal path toward continuing control of the BEast name and assets.  I'd even consider 'buying off' Temple if they truly have a controlling vote at this time.  Expect a Catholic 7 decision/announcement late in their window of opportunity, if one exists.

[bilsu]

If I understand correctly, they'd have the numbers to do so right now if Temple does not have controlling vote yet.

MSG has their own contract that it can get out of if they don't like the direction/make-up of the conference.

Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on these.

I think the football conference Temple thought they were joining is falling apart. I also think they joined Big East for basketball and not football. I could see Temple voting with basketball schools, if they were guaranteed a spot in the new league.

[Galway Eagle]

how about a national catholic conference except for Notre Dame and Boston College we can make them feel lame for having Football an Hockey

[Aughnanure]

We need to build the best conference possible with the best teams possible that also delivers maximum TV revenue. Setting aside quotas for Catholic schools vs. non-Catholic schools cannot be part of the equation. If Cincy, UConn, Memphis, and Temple want to come along and park their football in the MAC or something, they're more than welcome to, but I don't see that as realistic. If we're looking at private, urban, basketball-centric schools without FBS football, I think there are really three options.

The first is a 10-team league, where everyone plays each other twice in a traditional, double-round robin. Because of the smaller number of media markets, I don't see this as likely to happen, as fun as it would be.

Another outside possibility is a 16-team league, similar to the current Big East, but I don't think this happens unless Memphis, Temple, Cincinnati AND UConn are all on board, and I would be stunned if that developed.

I think the most likely scenario is a 12-team league, where everyone plays each other once and you have perhaps 5-7 mirror games. If this is the scenario, I think this is your league.

Georgetown, Villanova, Seton Hall, St. John's, Providence, Dayton, Xavier, Butler, DePaul, Marquette, Saint Louis, Creighton

Adding many more schools could create a situation similar to the soon-to-be-former incarnation of the Big East, and frankly, you're at a point of diminishing returns if you want to add more schools just for the sake of "not having too many Catholics." Just examine the following other schools I've heard mentioned in these discussions.

UMass MAYBE gives you a Boston media market, but they haven't been to the NCAAs since 1998, and have finished higher than 5th in the A-10 only 3 times in the 14 years since...and they have FBS football.

Richmond, VCU, and George Mason give you a growing demographic area in DC/Virginia, but do they really give you so much more than Georgetown does in your media rights discussions that it's worth splitting the pie another 3 ways?

Temple is occasionally good but you already have exposure in that market with Villanova. Temple at least nominally has FBS football to worry about as well, just like UMass.

Yea, it'd be fun to add Gonzaga, but they would be a geographic outlier in every way possible. Their closest rival would be Creighton, a mere 1500 mile trip. Yes, South Florida is a geographic outlier in the current Big East, but they're a state school with football revenue. Gonzaga is neither.

We need to add the best teams that make sense.

I like your 12, but to be clear Richmond/VCU is not the DC market. It's the Richmond/Williamsburg market. I don't get the George Mason idea though at all -that's right outside DC...why would Georgetown even consider it?

I do like the idea of adding VCU/Richmond though...but that probably happens only in a 15 or 16 team league.

[LloydMooresLegs]

Given where we are, this is outstanding news.  Love the 12 team proposal, including non -Catholic schools

A couple of other comments. 

Not sure why we should care about the automatic bid?  Since we have been at a 64 (plus) team tourney, at least one of the contemplated members (he says boldly without any research) has received an at-large bid every year.  Don't see this changing even if our conference RPI takes a hit.

If no MSG, then Brooklyn.  The A-10 would be done.

If no Big East name, Big Metro/Metro North or some such.

But do everything possible to maintain BE and MSG.

I would also suggest a "reverse buy-out" of the remaining football schools with what would be their share of the money paid by the schools that have left.  Avoids litigation, cound entice them out if the bball schools do not have the vote and it would be fair.

[Aughnanure]

I question this whole automatic bid and MSG go away if we become basketball only.  The catholic 7 or whatever have the power to kick out the football schools for the next 6 months.  That means these 7 can retain the auto bid, MSG, AND the name and simply invite new schools in to build the league out to 10 or 12 teams.

Based on the rumbles, I'm willing to bet, the 7 are currently talking to schools like Creighton, Butler, Xavier, etc and assessing their interest and beginning negotiations to bring them in.  If they are doing this right, they will have the new schools in place behind the scenes, will call a BEast meeting, call the vote to jettison the football schools and rescind the existing offers then the next day announce they are extending offers to these list of 5 schools to join the BEast in all sports(with football not a sport at any of them save Villanova).  Those 5 schools with "think" about it for several days for appearance sake and then sign on the dotted line and we're done.

I remember hearing a year ago that if a new conference had at least 6 schools that have played together for at least 7 years in an auto-bid conference that the new conference formed would not have to wait for an NCAA auto-bid. Or something like that.

[bilsu]

What worries me the most about this whole football mess is the NCAA basketball tournament. I think eventually the four super BCS football conferences will break away and have their own basketball tournament.

[Dish]

If this is going to happen, the new conference needs to be marketed heavily as the basketball conference. New, fresh ideas need to be brought up. If Georgetown is going after a 5 star recruit against Duke, Carolina, the new conference coaches (in my opinion) would need to help recruit that kid to Georgetown. Conference tourney shouldn't be in Indy, NYC, Chicago. It's spring break, get after it, have it at Atlantis. Come up with some one day, pre-season gimmick event.

Basketball is the steak, have to find ways to sell the sizzle.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

What worries me the most about this whole football mess is the NCAA basketball tournament. I think eventually the four super BCS football conferences will break away and have their own basketball tournament.

Now THAT would be a bold move... and also likely doom the sport

[Aughnanure]

What worries me the most about this whole football mess is the NCAA basketball tournament. I think eventually the four super BCS football conferences will break away and have their own basketball tournament.

I think the new tournament would lose legitimacy and any effort to break-away is going to face many serious political and legal challenges. I also think that the tournament loses a lot of its luster if it tried to kick out the Cinderella teams and stories that are a big draw for the casual fans.

And not allowing schools like Marquette, Georgetown, Xavier, Butler, Gonzaga, etc to compete in it would damage the legitimacy of the tournament. It's also not as fun if all 64 teams from the 4x16 conferences get in automatically. Selection Sunday and the bubble are vital for NCAA tournament interest.

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

I think the new tournament would lose legitimacy and any effort to break-away is going to face many serious political and legal challenges. I also think that the tournament loses a lot of its luster if it tried to kick out the Cinderella teams and stories that are a big draw for the casual fans.

And not allowing schools like Marquette, Georgetown, Xavier, Butler, Gonzaga, etc to compete in it would damage the legitimacy of the tournament. It's also not as fun if all 64 teams from the 4x16 conferences get in automatically. Selection Sunday and the bubble are vital for NCAA tournament interest.

We sports fans also sometime forget that for an event like the NCAA tournament, the vast majority of the fans are "casual fans".  They would kill the golden goose if they attempted this.  Not saying they wont be stupid enough to try though...

[TJ]

I've said as recently as a few weeks ago that they should hold out and hope for an invitation to one of the big 5 conferences, but I've now been convinced that dissolving the Big East and re-forming as the best possible basketball conference is the only solution at this point.  The Big 12 isn't calling and we need to create an environment worth staying in.  If Georgetown and Villanova are willing to join and stay in a new non-football Big East then we should do it.  It won't be as great a league but its the best we could do at this point.  It will be less money now, but honestly with where the Big East is headed the money isn't going to be around for long anyway.  Cincinnati and UConn will find a way to leave eventually.

[Boozemon Barro]

We sports fans also sometime forget that for an event like the NCAA tournament, the vast majority of the fans are "casual fans".  They would kill the golden goose if they attempted this.  Not saying they wont be stupid enough to try though...

While it would seriously damage the tournament's popularity, it would still be a gigantic moneymaker for those 64 teams. Imagine if they were able to broadcast the tournament on their conference networks? There wouldn't be as much total money in the tournament, but instead of the NCAA making all the money, that money would go directly to those 64 schools.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

While it would seriously damage the tournament's popularity, it would still be a gigantic moneymaker for those 64 teams. Imagine if they were able to broadcast the tournament on their conference networks? There wouldn't be as much total money in the tournament, but instead of the NCAA making all the money, that money would go directly to those 64 schools.

Totally agree that it would be a huge moneymaker for the big four conferences. Also have to say that setting up four 16 team conferences sets up a basketball (and football?) tournament nicely. But I'm not sure alienating half of the college sports fans in the country would be wise. I know that I for one would boycott college sports altogether if they were to do it and I'm guessing I wouldn't be alone.

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

While it would seriously damage the tournament's popularity, it would still be a gigantic moneymaker for those 64 teams. Imagine if they were able to broadcast the tournament on their conference networks? There wouldn't be as much total money in the tournament, but instead of the NCAA making all the money, that money would go directly to those 64 schools.

Regular season games for bball would likely generate almost nothing if they did this.  The majority of the giant pie already goes to these conferences.  The pie would be cut by more then half if they did this.  The only reason they would do this is to exclude the other schools.  Again, maybe they would but the money they would earn I would guess would go down.

[bilsu]

While it would seriously damage the tournament's popularity, it would still be a gigantic moneymaker for those 64 teams. Imagine if they were able to broadcast the tournament on their conference networks? There wouldn't be as much total money in the tournament, but instead of the NCAA making all the money, that money would go directly to those 64 schools.

and we already know those 64 schools put money before tradition.

[Pakuni]

What worries me the most about this whole football mess is the NCAA basketball tournament. I think eventually the four super BCS football conferences will break away and have their own basketball tournament.

Not likely. The whole reason the BCS setup had to include the kind of loopholes that have allowed Northern Illinois, Hawaii, etc., into BCS games is to avoid antitrust issues. Those same issues likely would arise should some conferences try to exclude other conferences/programs.

[Benny B]

I think the new tournament would lose legitimacy and any effort to break-away is going to face many serious political and legal challenges. I also think that the tournament loses a lot of its luster if it tried to kick out the Cinderella teams and stories that are a big draw for the casual fans.

The possibility of a breakaway has already been contemplated in Frankfort, and if such came to fruition, it's quite likely that UK would not be participating in the breakaway tourney.

I'm not sure if another state legislature would take action to prevent this from happening, but there would be a lot of pressure especially down south.  Kentucky has 7 D-I schools in basketball, Louisiana has 12, North Carolina has 18, California has 24.  I wouldn't be surprised to see these states bar the "flagships" from participation in order to protect the more numerous small and mid-major D-I schools who would be devastated by a breakaway (tournament shares are paid to the smaller conferences, too - not to mention that buy games for these schools fund an entire year of athletics for many).

So if a BCS tournament wants to be played without the likes of Kentucky, Louisville, UNC, NC State, LSU, UCLA... more power to them.

[Benny B]

There wouldn't be as much total money in the tournament, but instead of the NCAA making all the money, that money would go directly to those 64 schools.

Ummm.... the NCAA basketball money already goes to the schools.  You're thinking football where little money goes to the schools, none to the NCAA, and most in the pockets of ESPN and the bowl game CEOs.

[Mods, Delete me please. 8/26/2020]

MORE teams in the NCAA tourney, not less, is where the $$$ is.   The debate has been about expanding the tourney to 96 and 128, not subtracting teams and making it smaller.   If the 4 superconferences would break away it would make for a glorified conference tourney and kill the marketing goldmine that is "March Madness".   There is no way this happens.  

[Coleman]

Obviously, the ideal is to keep the Big East name and contract with the Garden. However, if it becomes a matter of controlling our own destiny, they may have to go.

3 Name alternatives that I think could work
Big North (Currently the only "Big Cardinal Direction" unused in D1)
North Star Conference (My least favorite, but with historical basis. Several of these programs used it for their women's programs in the 1980s.)
Metro Conference (Makes sense given that pretty much all conference members are in urban areas, and some are even former Metro Conference members)

3 Conference Tournament venue alternatives not under contract
Verizon Center (Washington, DC)
Wells Fargo Center (Philadelphia)
or get creative. I personally like the idea of letting the tournament's winner also winning the right to host the tournament next year.

Not a fan of any of those names...they sound small time.

What about Catholic 12? C-12.....or borrowing from Chicago High School sports...Catholic League...I know Butler isn't Catholic....but Wisconsin isn't exactly "East" either (as in Big East)

[jficke13]

If the football schools teams abandon the NCAA for a college football system that is not associated with the NCAA in any way, wouldn't the NCAA penalize the institutions that did so for other sports?

i.e. Lets say the Big 4 conferences split away for football. Could those schools keep their non-football sports in the NCAA?

My real thought is that if major-conference football breaks away, wouldn't major-conference basketball be *forced* to break away too?