Zagoria: Basketball schools not inclined to form separate league right now

[GGGG]

http://zagsblog.com/articles/big-east-source-if-bleeding-stopped-here-the-basketball-schools-would-be-happy/

Football still helps too much on the revenue-generation side.

[The Process]

Yeah, right up until UCONN and Cincy screw us.  As the article said, there is a sense of "inevitability" about the all-basketball conference.  At what point does the danger of getting screwed outweigh the football dollars?  If we follow the dollars, what is the impact to MU when if/when we get screwed?

[MUfan12]

Exactly why I'm rooting for the dominoes to fall sooner rather than later. Once those two bolt, they can blow the thing up.

[tower912]

Hold the conference together and get maximum buyout money.    Hold onto the name.    It will be better if it is seen that A-10 schools are joining the BEast rather than the basketball-only BEast schools are going off to the A-10.    It is the inevitable endgame, but squeeze as much money as possible first.   

[real chili 83]

Hold the conference together and get maximum buyout money.    Hold onto the name.    It will be better if it is seen that A-10 schools are joining the BEast rather than the basketball-only BEast schools are going off to the A-10.    It is the inevitable endgame, but squeeze as much money as possible first.   

+1

[The Process]

Hold the conference together and get maximum buyout money.    Hold onto the name.    It will be better if it is seen that A-10 schools are joining the BEast rather than the basketball-only BEast schools are going off to the A-10.    It is the inevitable endgame, but squeeze as much money as possible first.   

So... Let's say that UCONN and Cincy are successful in jumping ship in the next few months. How much more squeezing is there to do? What is the tipping point here?

[🏀]

So... Let's say that UCONN and Cincy are successful in jumping ship in the next few months. How much more squeezing is there to do? What is the tipping point here?

UCONN and Cincy leaving have to be the tipping point, yeah?

[Knight Commission]

This article makes so sense to me...Im not buying it.

If the "source" is from a basketball only school, why the use of the word "they".  Sounds like a Big East league source to me.

How do the basketball schools know that the current conference would generate more revenue than a basketball conference? One, the Big east contract is in negotiations, and Two, noone has been negotiating the basketball only TV rights. I think the revenue will be close.

I think they are overemphasizing the conference tourney at MSG, as well...and that problem is easily solevable.
 

[Benny B]

So... Let's say that UCONN and Cincy are successful in jumping ship in the next few months. How much more squeezing is there to do? What is the tipping point here?

Presumably $10 Million x each remaining departure.  The tipping point is when Cincy & UCONN bolt, the league collects $20M ($30M if USF goes too), the conference votes to dissolve football, and the Big East lives on as basketball-only with a freshly inked check for $30M plus a fat annuity for the next 6 years after Louisville and Cincy face off in the NCAA title game this year.

[GGGG]

I don't think UConn and Cincy leave before July 1, 2013.

[Aughnanure]

UCONN and Cincy leaving have to be the tipping point, yeah?

We've been saying this team leaving or that leaving would be the tipping point for a long time. I'm getting worried that there isn't one and there's not enough leadership to recognize it when it does come.

[Aughnanure]

I don't think UConn and Cincy leave before July 1, 2013.

That would suck, cause does anyone think they're not leaving by 2016?

[GGGG]

It all depends on what the Big Ten and the SEC do and the trickle down from there.  I doubt the B10 is done though.

[The Process]

UCONN and Cincy leaving have to be the tipping point, yeah?

Not necessarily, but they are prominent and already tried to jump. So while a somewhat arbitrary point, it would be a pretty noticeable and impactful point if and when they leave.

[bilsu]

I believe TCU had to pay $5,000,000 because they backed out. I wonder if there is any penalty clause protecting the new additions, if the league disbands?

[Aughnanure]

I believe TCU had to pay $5,000,000 because they backed out. I wonder if there is any penalty clause protecting the new additions, if the league disbands?

Did they? I believe they got out of that one. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Tugg Speedman]

From the article ...

"If they do [form a Catholic league], they risk losing the conference label and then they risk losing the contact with Madison Square Garden for the tournament," the source said. "They don't want to make a mistake by jumping out early and then not being able to get a pretty good TV deal, even though it's going to be obviously much less on the basketball side.

"That's why it's a waiting game because they're worried about if they did something collectively and tried to reform with others. It all goes around to the brand of the Big East and the Garden."

This is exactly correct.  The name Big East and the MSG Tourney matter, and matter a lot.  It would be a huge mistake if they jumped without the name and tourney.

[Groin_pull]

From the article ...

"If they do [form a Catholic league], they risk losing the conference label and then they risk losing the contact with Madison Square Garden for the tournament," the source said. "They don't want to make a mistake by jumping out early and then not being able to get a pretty good TV deal, even though it's going to be obviously much less on the basketball side.

"That's why it's a waiting game because they're worried about if they did something collectively and tried to reform with others. It all goes around to the brand of the Big East and the Garden."

This is exactly correct.  The name Big East and the MSG Tourney matter, and matter a lot.  It would be a huge mistake if they jumped without the name and tourney.

Am I the only one who assumes there's an out-clause in that MSG contract? As the Big East sinks deeper and deeper, I have to believe MSG will take a very close look at dumping the Big East and getting into bed with the ACC.

Let's be honest. If you're MSG, what would you rather have? A semi-finals with Houston, Memphis, Marquette, and Temple....or UNC, Duke Syracuse, and Louisville?

[The Process]

Am I the only one who assumes there's an out-clause in that MSG contract? As the Big East sinks deeper and deeper, I have to believe MSG will take a very close look at dumping the Big East and getting into bed with the ACC.

Let's be honest. If you're MSG, what would you rather have? A semi-finals with Houston, Memphis, Marquette, and Temple....or UNC, Duke Syracuse, and Louisville?

Speaking of out clauses... and this ties into the other thread...

If there isn't an out clause (which likely is not the case, but let's just pretend for a moment for the sake of argument)... what if the basketball schools told UCONN and Cincy to go elsewhere as they've already indicated their strong desire to jump ship, rescinded the offers to the football schools that are coming in, and started to piece together the basketball conference discussed in the other thread?

1.  What do the bylaws state about kicking out programs or rescinding offers?  Would the BEAST have to pay them?
2.  Other than the UCONN/Cincy/etc exit fees (and that matter of the to-be-signed TV contract), is there anything that really prevents the BEAST from doing this?
3.  Would they be best suited to pulling this off after the ESPN/NBC/Public Access Cable contract is signed, provided this is before the football schools join the party and inevitably screw us and the basketball schools?

I know, totally pipe dream, but watching the conference carousel spinning makes me want to hurl out of dizziness.

[Tugg Speedman]

Am I the only one who assumes there's an out-clause in that MSG contract? As the Big East sinks deeper and deeper, I have to believe MSG will take a very close look at dumping the Big East and getting into bed with the ACC.

Let's be honest. If you're MSG, what would you rather have? A semi-finals with Houston, Memphis, Marquette, and Temple....or UNC, Duke Syracuse, and Louisville?

I thought the Garden was a place the Big East rented to hold their tourney.  And the Big East has that weekend in March rented for many years to come.

So, the Garden does not care of The Big East makes money, so long as the Big East's check clears is all the Garden cares about.

And to be specific, the Garden rented that weekend to the Big East.  So, if the non-basketball schools leave and lose the Big East name, that rental weekend goes to the owner of the Big East name.

Now if what I explained is correct, then their is no "out clause."

[The Equalizer]

Am I the only one who assumes there's an out-clause in that MSG contract? As the Big East sinks deeper and deeper, I have to believe MSG will take a very close look at dumping the Big East and getting into bed with the ACC.

Let's be honest. If you're MSG, what would you rather have? A semi-finals with Houston, Memphis, Marquette, and Temple....or UNC, Duke Syracuse, and Louisville?

I doubt there's an "out clause".  But there is probably already a right of first refusal with someone--A10 or ACC most likely--to take over that weekend if the Big East ceases to exist.

The basketball teams really have no good options

1.  The basketball teams could vote to blow up the conference--but then nobody gets the Big East name, nobody gets the NCAA revenue, the automatic bid goes away. . . and MSG as a tournament site is probably already contractually obligated to another league and gone both the new basketball and new foootball league.

2.  The basketball teams could leave, but they'd have to pay $5 million each and then the Big East name, accumlated conference tournament units, automatic bid and contract with MSG would stay with the football teams.

3.  The football teams could leave--but seems unlikely.  First, they'd have to pay $10 million each.  Second, why would they?  Aside from possibly UConn and Cincy, most of them have no better options--serioulsy, running back to CUSA?), and they certanly aren't going to mind being in a basketball confrence with MU, GU, VU, etc. 

[chr31ter]

Just a thought...

As long as the Basketball schools have the 2/3rds majority, couldn't they vote to stop offering football as a Conference sport, thereby forcing UConn and Cincy, etc. to go elsewhere?

[Lennys Tap]

Just a thought...

As long as the Basketball schools have the 2/3rds majority, couldn't they vote to stop offering football as a Conference sport, thereby forcing UConn and Cincy, etc. to go elsewhere?

I think the idea is to have them leave voluntarily and collect the exit fee.

[JoBo2756]

Has anyone actually seen the contracts for schools joining, the contract between MU and the Big East (can't call it the BEAST anymore... sorry) or the conference Bylaws?

Further, if we do get our hands on the contract can any of the lawyers on this board go through and actually lay out the possible scenarios?

Unless this happens, all of the above isn't really knowable (think that's a word). It's unlikely that someone will actually do any of this because it would take a ton of time and if you were talented enough to lay it out for the laymen, you time would be worth thousands of dollars. In my business, we pay out contract lawyers $510 an hour...

So unless someone can get these materials and has the Saturday and Sundays to actually do this, we'll never know.

Just my POV.

[honkytonk]

I thought the Garden was a place the Big East rented to hold their tourney.  And the Big East has that weekend in March rented for many years to come.

So, the Garden does not care of The Big East makes money, so long as the Big East's check clears is all the Garden cares about.

And to be specific, the Garden rented that weekend to the Big East.  So, if the non-basketball schools leave and lose the Big East name, that rental weekend goes to the owner of the Big East name.

Now if what I explained is correct, then their is no "out clause."

Bahhhhhhh!!!! You have definitely never lived in NYC. "Paying rent" is totally unacceptable. You think Dolan is cool with hosting a craptastic tournament so long as "the check clears?" We're talking about NYC. Brand recognition goes a hell of a lot further than some rent check.    Jeebus.