No news is good news !

[Murffieus]

When NBC evening news leads off with fires in California and floods in England and doesn't mention Iraq until the second half of the broadcast as has been the case the last week or so -----you know damn well that things are stablizing in Iraq.

Meanwhile Fox is right on top of it presenting clips on the army's reconcilliation project in Anbar and Diala provinces and how we are pushing Al Quida further north and into the desert.

[muwarrior87]

good to hear if this progress is really happening, maybe we will be able to get the troops home soon and get Iraq stabilized.

[Murffieus]

I don't think a majority of the troops will be coming home soon regardless----Al Quida is like a beehive----knock it down and it develops someplace else. this is a long war as we're fighting against an ideology (Jihad) which has made big inroads among muslim youth!

It's important though that when the troops do come home that they come home "heroes"----unlike the Vietnam vets of years ago who came home to major indifference!

[ChicosBailBonds]

There is some great news on the Surge...is Japanese, British and Australian newspapers.

Almost nothing in the US papers.

I'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that far left liberals do not want the surge to work, because it would justify the administrations actions.  In fact, some have essentially said this point blank.  I find that incredible, but not surprising.

This one in particular I found interesting....Al Queda faces rebellion within from a British paper

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article2121006.ece

[Murffieus]

If this continues the big losers will be the Dems in 2008 elections----and in particularily Hillary who read the polls pre invasion and came out strongly in favor of the war------now for the last few months she has been reading the polls agains and wants a quick timetable for troop withdrawl. If indeed Iraq is stablized by the 2008 fall election (assumming she gets the nomination)----she will be forced to come out with a completely different position AGAIN  by praising the surge which she was totally against----in other otherwords a 360 degree turn in just one year.

Can you picture Republican and affiliate TV ads which captivate her commentary on all 3 positions? It's ten times worse than when Kerry said, "I voted for the war after I voted against it"!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Murff, I have no doubt that the insurgency in Iraq will commit some horrific headline grabbing stunt to thwart any progress that is made if it looks like the Dems back down on this.  They read the internet sites too, they want the US out now as that is victory for them and there are all too many people in this country that are willing to grant their wish.

[Murffieus]

My reading is that Al Quida is losing cotrol over such events-----notice there are still suicde bombing incidents, but they are getting fewer and fewer-----and when they do happen they don't have the quantity death toll as prior, which indicates restrictied planning, focus, and logistics.

I smell victory, as hard as that may seem possible right now!

[77ncaachamps]

My reading is that Al Quida is losing cotrol over such events-----notice there are still suicde bombing incidents, but they are getting fewer and fewer-----and when they do happen they don't have the quantity death toll as prior, which indicates restrictied planning, focus, and logistics.

I smell victory, as hard as that may seem possible right now!

Can we raise funds, send you over there to smell it for yourself for a few months, and then come back and report how it smells to us?!? 

[tower912]

I smell blah-blah-blah-blah.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19955222/

[ChicosBailBonds]

I smell blah-blah-blah-blah.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19955222/

I'm sure it will all stop when we retreat.

[Pakuni]

I smell blah-blah-blah-blah.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19955222/

I'm sure it will all stop when we retreat.

So wait, is the surge working or not?
Every day there's not a bombing, some (Murff, for example) offer it as proof of the surge's success. Yet when a bombing occurs, it says nothing about the surge?
Can't have it both ways, boys.

Regardless, whether it stops or not when -- and it is a matter of "when" not "if" --the U.S. leaves should not be our first concern. Our first concern should be whether the result of remaining longer justifies the sacrifice of more young American lives.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yes, the surge is working according to the commanders on the ground.  Ultimately "will it work" depends on what is the barometer and measuring stick.

My guess is that people have different standards on what that measurement should be.


The other concern, in addition to the one you mention, is whether if we leave does the sacrifice we are no longer willing to make cause great peril down the road....i.e. pay a little now or a helluva lot later in blood and treasure.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well at least Muslims are viewing homicide bombings with less enthusiasm then in the past....perhaps this will lead to an eventual slowing of this practice...one can dream.


http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=253

[Pakuni]

Yes, the surge is working according to the commanders on the ground.  Ultimately "will it work" depends on what is the barometer and measuring stick.

My guess is that people have different standards on what that measurement should be.


The other concern, in addition to the one you mention, is whether if we leave does the sacrifice we are no longer willing to make cause great peril down the road....i.e. pay a little now or a helluva lot later in blood and treasure.

Would those be the same commanders on the ground who came up with the surge plan? Wouldn't it be safe to say they have a massive vested interest (as in, the kind that makes or breaks careers?) in making it appear to be success? Just to be sure, I think obtaining evaluations from more objective sources might be wise.

As for paying a "little" now -- though I'm sure you mean it comparitively to some great cataclysmic event we must all fear -- I don't consider 3,640 dead, 27,000 wounded and as much as $1.4 trillion little.

[Pakuni]

Well at least Muslims are viewing homicide bombings with less enthusiasm then in the past....perhaps this will lead to an eventual slowing of this practice...one can dream.


http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=253

Perhaps it's because they're finally understanding that it is they who, far more often than not, are the victims of such tactics.

[ChicosBailBonds]

$1.4 Trillion....care to share with us where you got that figure?

And 3,640 dead over 4 years...we've lost that many guys in an afternoon in some of our wars (I'm not dismissing it, just saying in military terms it's not a big sacrifice).


4....3....2...1....tell that to their families Chico.  Yes, I know the drill, I'm speaking only in historic military terms.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Cost of the war  $446 Billion as of right now, and climbing


http://costofwar.com/



Yes, there is an estimate of $1trillion to $2 trillion by a Nobel winning economist and self described Anti-War advocate (using your Commanders in the field argument...do you think that might influence or bias his estimates?)

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well at least Muslims are viewing homicide bombings with less enthusiasm then in the past....perhaps this will lead to an eventual slowing of this practice...one can dream.


http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=253

Perhaps it's because they're finally understanding that it is they who, far more often than not, are the victims of such tactics.

Agree, just amazing it took this long.  Perhaps the gangs here in Los Angeles can learn that same lesson.  One can dream.

[Pakuni]

$1.4 Trillion....care to share with us where you got that figure?

And 3,640 dead over 4 years...we've lost that many guys in an afternoon in some of our wars (I'm not dismissing it, just saying in military terms it's not a big sacrifice).


4....3....2...1....tell that to their families Chico.  Yes, I know the drill, I'm speaking only in historic military terms.

Yeah, my bad on the $1.4 trillion. That was from a Congressional report that combined current and projected costs for Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Murffieus]

During the 4 years of war in Iraq, 200,000 people have died on the nations highways-----and they weren't volunteers!

Let's ban driving cars----let's close down the highways!

[mviale]

The surge in vietnam was working too

[Pakuni]

During the 4 years of war in Iraq, 200,000 people have died on the nations highways-----and they weren't volunteers!

Let's ban driving cars----let's close down the highways!

Wow ... do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?
Maybe if people were dying as a result of snipers along the highways, roadside bombs and fellow drivers' cars unexpectedly blowing up on a gridlocked expressway, your point might have a sliver or validity.
Perhaps if only 150,000 people - not in the neighborhood of 300 million - were using the nation's highways, the comparison would be remotely apt.
Maybe if people were being ordered into dangerous driving conditions with faulty and insufficient equipment, unclear direction and nebulous goals, the analogy wouldn't be completely laughable.
But, alas, none of that is true and your comparison couldn't be any more obtuse.

Tell you what, Murff, why not go share this philosophy with a veteran. Or a war widow. See how it plays with them. I daresay that they, like I, would find it patently offensive that you compare a combat death to a highway fatality.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The surge in vietnam was working too

It worked in WWI, WWII, etc.


You know, it's dangerous to keep looking at everything through the lens of Vietnam...but since the left basically cost us that war (the words of the Viet Cong leadership, not mine) and is trying to do the same now, I guess it's natural for you to do that.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

During the 4 years of war in Iraq, 200,000 people have died on the nations highways-----and they weren't volunteers!

Let's ban driving cars----let's close down the highways!

I wouldn't go there Murff, at least not when you say banning cars...but I think your overall point is that people die everyday and in far greater numbers then the 3500 over 4 years.


By the way, this little site here shows how many are dying via cancer, abortion, war, murder, etc...puts it somewhat in perspective.  It's horrible we've lost 3600 men and women, its horrible that Iraq has lost 80,000...it was horrible when Iraq lost several hundred thousand under Saddam.  But that's part of the greater point I believe.

As horrible as war is, as dominating as it is portrayed on the news each night, it doesn't compare to many things in this world or even this country that take far more lives (19,000 murders for example, traffic accidents, cancer, etc).  But those aren't sexy and not as easy to blame on a person or an administration that the media doesn't care for and never did.


http://www.poodwaddle.com/worldclock.htm

[Pakuni]

Good Lord ... I can't believe you guys seriously are comparing combat deaths to cancer.  It's bad enough you make these terribly weak and factually bankrupt analogies to World War II, but now a disease?
What next  ... "Sure, 3,600 brave young Americans have died violently in a poorly planned and executed pre-emptive war, but that's nothing compared to the number of household accidents in this country!!!! Where's the media when it comes to villianizing slippery bathtubs and cluttered stairways!!"

p.s. You're right. How dare anyone blame what's happening in Iraq on the administration that went far out of its way to start a war there. What a crazy concept! That darn media. Those rotten liberals. To blame war deaths on the administration that started the war is way out of line. (sarcasm off)