Marquette and football

[MU Avenue]

The notion of Marquette's making a return to intercollegiate football has been discussed and debated here and elsewhere for years.

I remain among the faction that thinks Marquette should conduct a real and meaningful study into the possibility of bringing back MU football.

Most know the arguments that are made in opposition to Marquette's return to collegiate football. But MU would hardly be the first university to bring back -- or start -- a football program.

Past administrations at Marquette have summarily dismissed the idea of Marquette's restarting a football program. I am certain, however, that those same administrators did not foresee the price Marquette would pay for not investing anew in football.

I have always believed that MU officials made a rash and an ill-advised decision when they decided to have Marquette stop playing intercollegiate football in 1960. That decision, which few saw coming, shocked the university community and many in Milwaukee and throughout Wisconsin and the nation.

I hate everything about the recent conference hopping, which is nothing but a scourge upon collegiate sports. But the latest conference "realignment" only provides a sad education for all of us as to how many universities and athletic conferences are now doing business.

Marquette must be more willing to consider options and opportunities that would likely result in a much different, much brighter future.

[GoldenZebra]

The amount of MONEY needed to make MU football a viable option is staggering. It would not only belittle the great basketball program we have and are continuing to build but it would really hurt the projects that MU is trying to do in the future as far as increase its academic appeal and standing.

[cheebs09]

If we gathered up a few students, we could probably beat the Jets.

[Avenue Commons]

Great post. Let me tell you what Bill Cords, Cottingham and Willisms have all said: MARQUETTE WILL NOT BECSTRARTING A FOOTBSLL TEAM. EVER.

[bilsu]

I think 15-20 years down the road some of these BCS football schools will also be dropping football. Even with bigger TV dollars they will e losing significant money trying to stay competitive.

[brewcity77]

For better or worse, the 1960 decision was made. There's nothing we can do to undo it now. It's just too great a financial investment for Marquette to explore.

[tower912]

If someone offers MU 10 figures to start a team, they might listen.   The obstacles of building a stadium anywhere near campus are just too large.   And finally, how many <10K enrollment, private, inner city universities have profitable football programs?     MU isn't rich and the math just isn't there.  

[chapman]

If I had $100 million to give MU, I'd not let them spend a penny of it on starting a football program, or even on looking into starting a football program.

[MU82]

It's not only about starting a football program but about starting one that could one day be part of a power conference ... because anything less, in today's landscape, just doesn't matter.

And that ain't happening. Ever. Period.

[Tugg Speedman]

Can anyone name all the successful football programs started in the last 20 years?

I'm guessing the answer is zero. 

[Jay Bee]

Can anyone name all the successful football programs started in the last 20 years?

I'm guessing the answer is zero. 

Depends on your definition of "successful".

[Dawson Rental]

I think 15-20 years down the road some of these BCS football schools will also be dropping football. Even with bigger TV dollars they will e losing significant money trying to stay competitive.

And that's before taking into account what schools will have to spend when they will have to pay student-athletes in revenue producing sports which is getting ever closer with the TV revenue going ever higher.

Starting a football team now would be a financial perfect storm; making the maximum investment for a minimal negative return.  

[forgetful]

While we are restarting the football program, why don't we also take back the Medical College of Wisconsin.  Then MU would have enough research dollars to be an AAU member.

Is teal really needed?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Can anyone name all the successful football programs started in the last 20 years?

I'm guessing the answer is zero. 

Definitely not zero

University of South Florida.  First season, 1997.  First 4 years as Div I-AA as an independent.  Then 2 years as an independent in DivI-A.  Followed by 2 years in CUSA and then Big East.

6 bowl games later (4-2 record) and a record of 108-69 overall as a program, I would say they are successful.


Would MU be USF?  Hell no.  Florida is the perfect state to do it.


Then you have schools like UCONN that have played for 100 years but small time football and didn't commit to the next level until 15 years ago.  UCONN has gone to 5 bowl games since going to D1-A.

Boise State started playing in 1970 but not I-A until 1996, 16 years ago.  We all know the success they have had.


Jay Bee is right, depends what success is but that is three examples of programs that have had success and didn't start DI-A until the last 20 years or in USF's case, didn't play football at all until the last 20 years.

There are others...UCF started DI-AA in 1990.  They started DI-A in 1996.  4 bowl games

[unforgiven]

The Georgetown Model

The first football team at Georgetown was formed on November 1, 1874, with the earliest recorded intercollegiate games dating to 1887.[1] By the 1940s, Georgetown played in the Orange Bowl, where they lost 14–7 to Mississippi State.

As the college game became more expensive after World War II, Georgetown's program began to lose money rapidly.[2] The Hoyas' last successful season was 1949, when they lost in the Sun Bowl against Texas Western.[2]

After a 2–7 season in 1950, Georgetown attempted to salvage its program by softening its schedule, replacing major opponents such as Penn State, Miami, and Tulsa with Richmond, Bucknell, and Lehigh.[2] The program was losing too much money, however, and on March 22, 1951 the University's president canceled the football program.[2][3]

In 1962, Georgetown allowed its students to start a football program as an exhibition-only club sport. New games began in 1964, with their first match drawing 8,000 spectators to see the Hoyas host another university with an unofficial program, New York University (NYU).[4] Varsity football resumed in 1970 at what later became known as the Division III level.[5] In 1976, Georgetown began an annual rivalry game with the Catholic University Cardinals for the Steven Dean Memorial Trophy. The competition ended in 1993, when Georgetown moved into the Division I Football Championship Subdivision because of NCAA legislation forbidding Division I or II schools from playing football in lower divisions.[citation needed]

In 1993, the team joined the Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference, a mostly Catholic conference on the East Coast. With eight wins, The team won the conference championship outright in 1997, and were co-champions in 1998 with nine wins. In 1999 the team joined the Patriot League, a conference that currently prohibits its members from awarding football scholarships.[6] As a non-scholarship FCS program, many of Georgetown's non-conference games are against Ivy League schools, which do not award scholarships for any sport. Without the ability to add scholarships, Georgetown's program fell on hard times in the 2000s. Georgetown has by far the lowest football budget in the Patriot League, at less than half that of the next highest program. Georgetown also has the lowest number of Patriot League FSE's (funded scholarship equivalences) which measures the financial aid given out to its Varsity football players.[citation needed]

During its first decade in the Patriot League, the team managed to not have a winning campaign, with the 2009 season yielding no wins.[6] However, the Hoyas' 2011 Football team finished with a strong 8-3 record and second place in the Patriot League, becoming the first Hoya squad to produce a winning record in twelve seasons, and head coach Kevin Kelly was named the conference Coach of the Year.[

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The notion of Marquette's making a return to intercollegiate football has been discussed and debated here and elsewhere for years.

I remain among the faction that thinks Marquette should conduct a real and meaningful study into the possibility of bringing back MU football.

Most know the arguments that are made in opposition to Marquette's return to collegiate football. But MU would hardly be the first university to bring back -- or start -- a football program.

Past administrations at Marquette have summarily dismissed the idea of Marquette's restarting a football program. I am certain, however, that those same administrators did not foresee the price Marquette would pay for not investing anew in football.

I have always believed that MU officials made a rash and an ill-advised decision when they decided to have Marquette stop playing intercollegiate football in 1960. That decision, which few saw coming, shocked the university community and many in Milwaukee and throughout Wisconsin and the nation.

I hate everything about the recent conference hopping, which is nothing but a scourge upon collegiate sports. But the latest conference "realignment" only provides a sad education for all of us as to how many universities and athletic conferences are now doing business.

Marquette must be more willing to consider options and opportunities that would likely result in a much different, much brighter future.

2 years ago:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21422.msg231119#msg231119

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21458.0

[77ncaachamps]

Wisconsin is a great source of FB talent.

Says I, who hails from one of the true FB hot beds...CA.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Quick trivia question for everyone...college football programs are growing in ranks or dropping?

If you said dropping, you would be wrong.

http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2012/08/20/In-Depth/New-teams.aspx?


Another interesting article...25 programs to be added by 2014....including the University of New Orleans.



http://www.examiner.com/article/25-college-football-programs-to-launch-by-2014



http://www.cbs42.com/sports/story/Colleges-continue-to-add-football-teams/5N-fdo8Pz0C4Fv9mfo_Ylw.cspx

[mug644]

For better or worse, the 1960 decision was made. There's nothing we can do to undo it now. It's just too great a financial investment for Marquette to explore.

Then again, there's a significant number of people in 'MU nation' who still refer to the Warriors. Me included.

[GGGG]

There is no point to adding football.  The only reason to consider doing so is to be added to a major conference and that isn't going to happen.  Non-scholarship FCS football like Georgetown plays is absolutely useless and a drain on resources.  It's a step above a club sport.

[Tugg Speedman]

Definitely not zero

University of South Florida.  First season, 1997.  First 4 years as Div I-AA as an independent.  Then 2 years as an independent in DivI-A.  Followed by 2 years in CUSA and then Big East.

6 bowl games later (4-2 record) and a record of 108-69 overall as a program, I would say they are successful.


Would MU be USF?  Hell no.  Florida is the perfect state to do it.


Then you have schools like UCONN that have played for 100 years but small time football and didn't commit to the next level until 15 years ago.  UCONN has gone to 5 bowl games since going to D1-A.

Boise State started playing in 1970 but not I-A until 1996, 16 years ago.  We all know the success they have had.


Jay Bee is right, depends what success is but that is three examples of programs that have had success and didn't start DI-A until the last 20 years or in USF's case, didn't play football at all until the last 20 years.

There are others...UCF started DI-AA in 1990.  They started DI-A in 1996.  4 bowl games

Let's be real, we all know why MU Avenue starts a thousand threads about football and why we participate ...


We hope to start a team and somehow that team will garner us entry into the Big 10.  That will never, ever, ever happen. Otherwise, why bother?  Go to a Tosa East game, it will be more fun/competitive and cost way less than 125 million.

Actually, I take all this back, their is one way it will happen ... First MU raises billions for its endowment, they use that money to raise the academic reputation of the school, to an ivy caliber (and way above UW).   Then after 10 years in the top 10 of US News College Rankings (and preferably the top 5), it can start a FB program.  The traditionals that desperately want in to a top flight academic institution but cannot get offers from Stanford or ND will flock to this startup.

For this to happen, a first step has to occur. MU Avenue has to stop starting threads on this subject and give his life savings to MU's endowment.

[Tugg Speedman]

http://www.cbs42.com/sports/story/Colleges-continue-to-add-football-teams/5N-fdo8Pz0C4Fv9mfo_Ylw.cspx

Good Post CBB ...

For all those that want MU to start FB, what school on the list below do you wish we were?  Which of these schools is getting invited into a BCS conference in your lifetime?  (The answer is none).  How many of these schools have you heard of before (that is why most are starting FB programs).

Again, the point of this thread, and discussion about MU FB, is to be a BCS school.  Otherwise it is a waste of MU resources to create a glorified HS program.

Five programs launching in 2012:
Blufield College - Bluefield, Va. (NAIA)
Lindenwood University-Belleville - Belleville, Ill. (NAIA)
Misericordia University - Dallas, Pa. (NCAA D-III)
Point University - West Point, Ga. (NAIA)
Wayland Baptist University - Plainview, Texas (NAIA)

17 programs launching in 2013-2015:
Alderson-Broaddus College - Philippi, W. Va. (NCAA D-II) 2013
Berry College - Mount Berry, Ga. (NCAA D-III) 2013
Florida Tech - Melbourne, Fla. (NCAA D-II) 2013
Hendrix College - Conway, Ark. (NCAA D-III) 2013
Mercer University - Macon, Ga. (NCAA D-I FCS Pioneer Football League) 2013
Oklahoma Baptist University - Shawnee, Okla. (NAIA) 2013
Reinhardt University - Waleska, Ga. (NAIA) 2013
Southwestern University - Georgetown, Texas (NCAA D-III) 2013
Stetson University - DeLand, Fla. (NCAA D-I FCS Pioneer Football League) 2013
University of North Carolina at Charlotte - Charlotte, NC (NCAA D-I FCS Independent) 2013
Warner University - Lake Wales, Fla. (NAIA) 2013
College of Idaho - Caldwell, Idaho (NAIA) 2014
George Fox University - Newberg, Ore. (NCAA D-III) 2014
Houston Baptist University - Houston, Texas (NCAA D-I FCS Southland Conference) 2014
Kennesaw State University - Kennesaw, Ga. (NCAA D-I FCS Conference TBA) 2014
Finlandia University - Hancock, Mich. (NCAA D-III) 2014
Unviersity of New Orleans - New Orleans, La. (NCAA D-I FCS Independent) 2014


Nine programs launched in 2011:
Ave Maria University - Ave Maria, Fla. (NAIA)
Concordia University - Ann Arbor, Mich. (NAIA)
Ohio Mid-Western College - Sharonville, Ohio (U.S. Collegiate Athletics Association)
Presentation College - Aberdeen, SD (NCAA D-III)
Robert Morris University - Chicago, Ill. (NAIA)
Siena Heights University - Adrian, Mich. (NAIA)
Stevenson University - Owings Mills, Md. (NCAA D-III)
University of Texas at San Antonio - San Antonio, Texas (NCAA D-I FBS Conference USA)
Virginia University of Lynchburg - Lynchburg, Va. (U.S. Collegiate Athletics Association)

Six programs launched in 2010:
Georgia State University - Atlanta, Ga. (NCAA D-I FBS - transitional - FCS Colonial Athlatic Association/FBS Sun Belt Conference in 2013)
Lamar University - Beaumont, Texas (NCAA D-I FCS Southland Conference)
Lindsey Wilson College - Columbia, Ky. (NAIA)
Notre Dame College - South Euclid, Ohio (NAIA)
Pacific University - Forest Grove, Ore. (NCAA D-III)
University of South Alabama - Mobile, Ala. (NCAA D-I FBS Sun Belt Conference)

Five programs launched in 2009:
Anna Maria College - Paxton, Mass. (NCAA D-III)
Castleton State College - Castleton, Vt. (NCAA D-III)
Old Dominion University - Norfork, Va. (NCAA D-I FCS Colonial Athletic Confernence/FBS Conference USA in 2013)
University of New Haven - West Haven, Conn. (NCAA D-II)
University of the Incarnate Word - San Antonio, Texas (NCAA D-II)

Eight programs launched in 2008:
Campbell University - Buies Creek, N.C. (NCAA D-I FCS Pioneer League)
College of St. Scholastica - Duluth, Minn. (NCAA D-III)
Colorado State University-Pueblo - Pueblo, Colo. (NCAA D-II)
Dordt College - Sioux Center, Iowa (NAIA)
Grand View University - Des Moines, Iowa (NAIA)
Kentucky Christian University - Grayson, Ky. (NAIA)
Lake Erie College - Plainsville, Ohio (NCAA D-II)
Lincoln University of Pennsylvania - Lincoln University, Penn. (NCAA D-II)

[chapman]

Chicos and Another have got it.  Starting a poverty program like almost all of the above basically entails buying some helmets and pads, and maybe it can grow over time, like decades.  Starting USF football entails having an ideal situation and committing a ton of resources.  And don't forget they're not exactly in a perfect place as far as conference realignment goes.  Time to open an MU satellite campus in Florida or Texas that actually has 3x the enrollment we have now.

[warriorchick]

Even if you got all the issues directly related to football solved, there is still Title IX to deal with.  If you are going to add football scholarships, you are going to either have to cut other men's scholarships, add more women's scholarships, or both.  In reality, that would probably mean dropping other men's teams or adding women's teams.

[Tugg Speedman]

Even if you got all the issues directly related to football solved, there is still Title IX to deal with.  If you are going to add football scholarships, you are going to either have to cut other men's scholarships, add more women's scholarships, or both.  In reality, that would probably mean dropping other men's teams or adding women's teams.

As noted above, if you dropped every men's sport except basketball, that would not be enough to add football under title IX.  You would still have to add women's sports.

And if you did drop everything, you risk membership in the BE.  Yes BE is about basketball but they also expect you to be competitive, or at least try, in everything else.