Great recruiting news

[ATL MU Warrior]

You don't need to stand by your statement because you haven't said anything other than Buzz might be gone, or Buzz might stay. WOW. That's crazy.

In 2013, it will be the same thing. 2014? Same thing.

exactly.

[swoopem]

Pakuni

I do not think Buzz did anything other than a great job recruiting. Things can change and Buzz might be here 20 years. Who knows maybe things have changed already. I have not heard anything new and hope that is the case. If Buzz were to leave I do not think he could take a year off of from recruiting, both for his sake and MU's sake.

Why not give your source a call and ask him/her what the deal is?

[The Equalizer]

. . .  sign that some of the rumored issues between Buzz and upper management are improving.

Or more likely never existed in the first place.

[madtownwarrior]

Guns - I normally agree with you but this one is a little different.  This is not Goose wondering aloud if Buzz might stay or might leave.   Goose is on the record for stating there is already an agreement in place for buzz to leave at end of the year.  Two of the quotes below....


"From what I have heard several times that mutually parting of ways happened in the spring. MU has a year to put together a list of replacements and Buzz has a year to make a positive move, not a SMU type move."

and

"Even money that deal is in place for Buzz to leave for bigger job at conclusion of this season."


So maybe that is why Buzz appears so disinterested in how the team played the last two games

I'm sorry, but this is BS. Buzz's employment at MU is always going to be a fluid situation. Doesn't matter who the President is, doesn't matter who the AD is. Doesn't matter if they love each other. Doesn't matter if they hate each other.

Employment for ALL college coaches is a fluid situation. Have a couple of bad seasons? A school might replace you. Have a couple of great seasons? You might get an offer you can't refuse.

You don't need to stand by your statement because you haven't said anything other than Buzz might be gone, or Buzz might stay. WOW. That's crazy.

In 2013, it will be the same thing. 2014? Same thing.

[Goose]

Madtown

Thanks for piping in!! Still hope you win the bet.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Guns - I normally agree with you but this one is a little different.  This is not Goose wondering aloud if Buzz might stay or might leave.   Goose is one the record for stating there is already an agreement in place for buzz to leave at end pf the year.  Two of the quotes below....


"From what I have heard several times that mutually parting of ways happened in the spring. MU has a year to put together a list of replacements and Buzz has a year to make a positive move, not a SMU type move."

and

"Even money that deal is in place for Buzz to leave for bigger job at conclusion of this season."


So maybe that is why Buzz appears so disinterested in how the team played the last two games

Yea, but that's followed by:

"Things can change and Buzz might be here 20 years. Who knows maybe things have changed already. I have not heard anything new and hope that is the case. If Buzz were to leave I do not think he could take a year off of from recruiting, both for his sake and MU's sake."

I mean, but that logic, I'm going to say:
"Buzz will be at MU in 2015. I head from a source that he and Pilarz worked out a deal. If he leaves before then, that means something has changed."

I don't mean to pick on Goose, but EVERY COACH is basically on a year to year deal. Contracts are regularly bought out if a coach gets fired, or if the coach takes a different job.

Buzz is basically year to year at MU. That's just the plain truth.

[Goose]

Guns


I do not agree every coach falls into your point. I have not heard Bo Ryan to Maryland or Tom Izzo to Kansas State. Regardless of Buzz I would say that MU fans have sat on pins and needles more in the past decade over possibly losing a coach than UW has or many other schools.

No offense taken on singling me out, but think this point of yours is looking at big picture.

[Pakuni]

Yea, but that's followed by:

"Things can change and Buzz might be here 20 years. Who knows maybe things have changed already. I have not heard anything new and hope that is the case. If Buzz were to leave I do not think he could take a year off of from recruiting, both for his sake and MU's sake."

I mean, but that logic, I'm going to say:
"Buzz will be at MU in 2015. I head from a source that he and Pilarz worked out a deal. If he leaves before then, that means something has changed."

I don't mean to pick on Goose, but EVERY COACH is basically on a year to year deal. Contracts are regularly bought out if a coach gets fired, or if the coach takes a different job.

Buzz is basically year to year at MU. That's just the plain truth.

Big difference between "every coach could leave any given year" and "a deal is in place for this coach to definitely leave at the end of this specific year."
One suggests a possibility. The other states a definitive outcome.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Guns


I do not agree every coach falls into your point. I have not heard Bo Ryan to Maryland or Tom Izzo to Kansas State. Regardless of Buzz I would say that MU fans have sat on pins and needles more in the past decade over possibly losing a coach than UW has or many other schools.

No offense taken on singling me out, but think this point of yours is looking at big picture.

The odds of Bo and/or Izzo leaving are significantly less than other guys. You are 100% correct. The odds are different for them because of their specific situation, but it's still basically a year to year deal.

Schools can't really prevent coaches from taking a different gig, and coaches can't really stop schools from firing them.

- Buzz might leave at the end of the year, but I don't think that really confirms your theory.
- Buzz might stay, but I don't think that confirms that "something changed".

You could repeat that mantra every season, and you'll be right, because at the end of every year, a coach is going to evaluate his options (leave, retire, stay). It will always be fluid, it's never static.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Big difference between "every coach could leave any given year" and "a deal is in place for this coach to definitely leave at the end of this specific year."
One suggests a possibility. The other states a definitive outcome.

Yes, and the definitive outcome is followed-up with: "Something could change"

[madtownwarrior]

Yep, I forgot the "things can change" qualification clause prefaced on all information referenced and stated from "sources" as fact...

Yea, but that's followed by:

"Things can change and Buzz might be here 20 years. Who knows maybe things have changed already. I have not heard anything new and hope that is the case. If Buzz were to leave I do not think he could take a year off of from recruiting, both for his sake and MU's sake."

I mean, but that logic, I'm going to say:
"Buzz will be at MU in 2015. I head from a source that he and Pilarz worked out a deal. If he leaves before then, that means something has changed."

I don't mean to pick on Goose, but EVERY COACH is basically on a year to year deal. Contracts are regularly bought out if a coach gets fired, or if the coach takes a different job.

Buzz is basically year to year at MU. That's just the plain truth.

[Goose]

Guns


Fxxk my "theory"!!! Do you think every school sits at end of season wondering if their coach is leaving?


Madtown
I thought you PM'd to have a truce? Not sure why you send me PM's and then talk differently in forum. Last time I think you sent me PM was over the tshirt situation. "Things do change" ...we agreed not to bash each other until of next season and here you are again...things did change since your truce offering.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Guns


Fxxk my "theory"!!! Do you think every school sits at end of season wondering if their coach is leaving?


Madtown
I thought you PM'd to have a truce? Not sure why you send me PM's and then talk differently in forum. Last time I think you sent me PM was over the tshirt situation. "Things do change" ...we agreed not to bash each other until of next season and here you are again...things did change since your truce offering.

Yes, I think athletic departments at every school evaluate the odds of their coach returning for the following season. That's smart business.

For Izzo and Bo, that might be 99%. For (insert hot young coach at a small school), that might be 50/50.

[Goose]

So we are a small school? I would compare us to ND or Georgetown in Basketball stature and I never hear their coaches mentioned every year to leave. Would politely disagree with you on overall coaching landscape and number of schools that worry about losing their hot shot coach.

[madtownwarrior]

Not bashing you Goose - just pointing out that this has moved from "I think Buzz is gone" or "I predict Buzz is gone" to "there is an agreement in place that Buzz is gone"

big difference....

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So we are a small school? I would compare us to ND or Georgetown in Basketball stature and I never hear their coaches mentioned every year to leave. Would politely disagree with you on overall coaching landscape and number of schools that worry about losing their hot shot coach.

I don't mean to imply that MU is a small school. Poor writing on my behalf.

Now we're down the rabbit hole on this topic, so I guess we can revisit in the summer when Buzz either does or does not leave.

[Goose]

Guns

As a rule I agree with your posts. Just saying that you can think my "theory" is flawed and no problem with that. Do think MU has more nervous fans over losing coach than other programs I consider our peers. We can debate why all day, but find it extremely interesting that other programs appear to be "safer" with their coach than we are.

[The Equalizer]

Guns

As a rule I agree with your posts. Just saying that you can think my "theory" is flawed and no problem with that. Do think MU has more nervous fans over losing coach than other programs I consider our peers. We can debate why all day, but find it extremely interesting that other programs appear to be "safer" with their coach than we are.

Other programs appear to be "safer" with their coach because they view their coach as the guy who currently holds the job at their successful program, whereas MU fans are more nervous because many view the coach as the very identify and personification of the program itself.   Call it the "Curse of Al" if you want. 

Whatever reason, MU fans have a hard time accepting that a good portion of our success comes from an administration that has spared no expense--from buiding first class facilities to a top-10-level coaching salary to a top 5 recruiting budget --and yes, that also includes hiring a well-connected and media-savvy AD.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Guns

As a rule I agree with your posts. Just saying that you can think my "theory" is flawed and no problem with that. Do think MU has more nervous fans over losing coach than other programs I consider our peers. We can debate why all day, but find it extremely interesting that other programs appear to be "safer" with their coach than we are.

Our fanbase has been burned a few times. We are probably a little too touchy about it.

MU appears to be as committed (if not more committed) to basketball than most successful schools. We'll see if that translates to longer term coaches and ultimately success.

[Goose]

Equalizer

The spare no expense hardly come from the administration. The program is big time funded by major donor(s). The Al was a project that was spearheaded by former players and paid for again largely from donors. Do not assume that MU has been bankrolling the program.

As for nervous nature of MU fans, I cannot comment on that. For me, as long ONE donor remains the face behind the scenes, I am not nervous about anything. If Buzz leaves I would think we made mistake letting him go...if the DONOR stops support a much bigger issue and would be very disappointed here.

[StillAWarrior]

Other programs appear to be "safer" with their coach because they view their coach as the guy who currently holds the job at their successful program, whereas MU fans are more nervous because many view the coach as the very identify and personification of the program itself.   Call it the "Curse of Al" if you want. 

Whatever reason, MU fans have a hard time accepting that a good portion of our success comes from an administration that has spared no expense--from buiding first class facilities to a top-10-level coaching salary to a top 5 recruiting budget --and yes, that also includes hiring a well-connected and media-savvy AD.

Amen.


And part of that commitment has been shown by giving promising young coaches their first big head coaching job (and paying them quite well).  If you tend to hire promising young coaches, you're going to have to deal with the fact that other people are going to want to hire them if they're successful.  Some (most, probably) will move on.  If you're lucky, you might find one that wants to stay and really build something.  Hopefully Buzz is that guy.  If not, we'll hire another coach and I think the Administration will show the same level of commitment and continue to have good results.

[unforgiven]

Amen.


And part of that commitment has been shown by giving promising young coaches their first big head coaching job (and paying them quite well).  If you tend to hire promising young coaches, you're going to have to deal with the fact that other people are going to want to hire them if they're successful.  Some (most, probably) will move on.  If you're lucky, you might find one that wants to stay and really build something.  Hopefully Buzz is that guy.  If not, we'll hire another coach and I think the Administration will show the same level of commitment and continue to have good results.

A friend of mine teaches at Idaho in Moscow and is close with the Monson clan. Don related that he never should have left for Oregon and Dan should never have left Gonzaga. Mark Few watched and learned. 

[Pakuni]

Amen.


And part of that commitment has been shown by giving promising young coaches their first big head coaching job (and paying them quite well).  If you tend to hire promising young coaches, you're going to have to deal with the fact that other people are going to want to hire them if they're successful.  Some (most, probably) will move on.  If you're lucky, you might find one that wants to stay and really build something.  Hopefully Buzz is that guy.  If not, we'll hire another coach and I think the Administration will show the same level of commitment and continue to have good results.

Yep.
I'd hate to lose Buzz, but, unlike some, I don't think it would be a program-crippling loss. MU has done very well with three of its last four hires - the latest of which, it's worth noting, was blasted by many here who know fret over losing that guy.

Given its financial resources, recent success and facilities, MU would be a very attractive job to many quality coaches, both top assistants and guys who've succeeded in smaller programs. There's no reason to believe MU wouldn't hire well again. I hope we don't have to find out, but I won't panic if we must.

[StillAWarrior]

A friend of mine teaches at Idaho in Moscow and is close with the Monson clan. Don related that he never should have left for Oregon and Dan should never have left Gonzaga. Mark Few watched and learned. 

I was thinking of Mark Few when I typed, "If you're lucky, you might find one that wants to stay and really build something."  Unfortunately, coaches like that are few (ugh...bad pun) and far between.  He's the exception, not the rule.  Hopefully, Buzz will be our Mark Few (only better).  But if he turns out to be another KO or TC (or countless others), we'll have to try again...and again...and again.

[Aughnanure]

I'm sorry, but this is BS. Buzz's employment at MU is always going to be a fluid situation. Doesn't matter who the President is, doesn't matter who the AD is. Doesn't matter if they love each other. Doesn't matter if they hate each other.

Employment for ALL college coaches is a fluid situation. Have a couple of bad seasons? A school might replace you. Have a couple of great seasons? You might get an offer you can't refuse.

You don't need to stand by your statement because you haven't said anything other than Buzz might be gone, or Buzz might stay. WOW. That's crazy.

In 2013, it will be the same thing. 2014? Same thing.

Hopefully by 2020, we can start to get a little more confident that we may have found our Mark Few (but hopefully better). But yeah, until then...one year at a time guys. One year.