Dwade reppin IU and Tom Crean

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Buzz worked for Colorado State. He has a connection there. Last I checked, Wade never enrolled at, played for, or coached at IU. Totally different.

Alright, we'll just agree to disagree.

For me, it doesn't matter.

For you, it's offensive.

Neither of us is going to change.

[MUsoxfan]

It's absolutely offensive. He can praise the coach without necessarily praising the school.

[brewcity77]

Neither of us is going to change.

Agreed

[MUBurrow]

+1000

Except Wade is a much bigger star than Hinrich. I think this would be more on par with Deron Williams showing up in Kansas gear to support Bill Self (Illinois fans would go ballistic) or Derrick Rose tweeting his workouts in Kentucky gear to support John Calipari.

Honestly, it's just kind of disturbing, and something I can't recall another player ever doing. If someone else can remember ex-Pitt guys wearing UCLA gear to support Howland, or old Cincinnati players donning West Virginia clothes to support Huggins, or former Kentucky players proudly wearing Louisville gear to support Pitino, please point these out. But at this point, it's just sad, disturbing, and honestly, offensive.

Whether we like it or not, Marquette isnt UNC or Kansas or UCLA.  We have a school thats remarkably dependent on personal connections with the coaching staff, because thats what draws recruits. Its not the Marquette mystique, or that MU is sure to get guys into the pros. If you go to UCLA (esp now) or UNC (since Smith) your attendance isn't as independently based on the personal connections of the recruiting process as they are at a smaller-reputation school like MU. We love that when it works - hell some of the people bashing Wade for this are ironically the biggest Buzz fans for this very reason. But then we have to take the at times pride-damaging hits like this.

If Buzz were to leave in a year or two, I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest to see JFB casually repping the new school threads.  Its a somewhat similar story - remarkably tough background, a story of perseverance, a coach who was personally willing to take a chance the bigger names wouldn't take, and what appears to be a lasting connection in appreciation of that chance. Like it or hate it, MU is the venue for those relationships, but not the reason. And who am I to say that JFB has to love Marquette more than Buzz? To say that Wade has to love MU more than Crean? I think theres little to no chance that binary even occurs to Wade in this situation, but even if it does, he has every right and reason to feel this way. Pretty lame IMO to not recognize the real life, interpersonal implications for what they are and get all pettily offended over the logo.

[ringout]

Au contraire. The fact that other coaches don't use players from their former schools like this means it does matter. You saying otherwise doesn't change that.

Guns is slipping into his former position as Crean's No. 2 apologist. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Guns is slipping into his former position as Crean's No. 2 apologist. 

Fine.

I'll wear the hat.

I don't think Dwyane Wade's IU tweets are Tom Crean's fault.

I didn't think this was a controversial stance, but apparently it is. Look at me with my logic and strong convictions. Hooray.

[Hards Alumni]

Whether we like it or not, Marquette isnt UNC or Kansas or UCLA.  We have a school thats remarkably dependent on personal connections with the coaching staff, because thats what draws recruits. Its not the Marquette mystique, or that MU is sure to get guys into the pros. If you go to UCLA (esp now) or UNC (since Smith) your attendance isn't as independently based on the personal connections of the recruiting process as they are at a smaller-reputation school like MU. We love that when it works - hell some of the people bashing Wade for this are ironically the biggest Buzz fans for this very reason. But then we have to take the at times pride-damaging hits like this.

If Buzz were to leave in a year or two, I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest to see JFB casually repping the new school threads.  Its a somewhat similar story - remarkably tough background, a story of perseverance, a coach who was personally willing to take a chance the bigger names wouldn't take, and what appears to be a lasting connection in appreciation of that chance. Like it or hate it, MU is the venue for those relationships, but not the reason. And who am I to say that JFB has to love Marquette more than Buzz? To say that Wade has to love MU more than Crean? I think theres little to no chance that binary even occurs to Wade in this situation, but even if it does, he has every right and reason to feel this way. Pretty lame IMO to not recognize the real life, interpersonal implications for what they are and get all pettily offended over the logo.

Nailed it.

[Lennys Tap]

If Buzz were to leave in a year or two, I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest to see JFB casually repping the new school threads.

If Buzz is coaching at UT and Jimmy Frackin' Butler starts "casuallly" reppin' the Longhorns and tweetin' about it I think Buzz would have the class to tell him to knock it off. And I'm absolutely sure that Buzz wouldn't be behind it. Not so with TC - at an event honoring Wade at Richard's high school, TC used the occasion to say that Wade would have "crawled to Bloomington through broken glass for the chance to play at Indiana". True or not, it's hard to imagine anyone being more calculatingly classless. From marrying the Harbaugh family to courting relationships with the Tony Larussas and Mike McCarthys of the world, Crean has routinely and very publicly sought to benefit from his "relationships". Despite what some here say, that's not how "everbody does it" - it's unseemly, and even worse when contrasted with how Crean treats the people who are not "useful" to him.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Even though DW3 is rumored to be switching shoe companies, pretty sure Nike wasn't too pleased he was reppin' IU wear since they are with Adidas.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If Buzz is coaching at UT and Jimmy Frackin' Butler starts "casuallly" reppin' the Longhorns and tweetin' about it I think Buzz would have the class to tell him to knock it off. And I'm absolutely sure that Buzz wouldn't be behind it. Not so with TC - at an event honoring Wade at Richard's high school, TC used the occasion to say that Wade would have "crawled to Bloomington through broken glass for the chance to play at Indiana". True or not, it's hard to imagine anyone being more calculatingly classless. From marrying the Harbaugh family to courting relationships with the Tony Larussas and Mike McCarthys of the world, Crean has routinely and very publicly sought to benefit from his "relationships". Despite what some here say, that's not how "everbody does it" - it's unseemly, and even worse when contrasted with how Crean treats the people who are not "useful" to him.

See, I actually agree with you that TC is a PR hound. Sometimes its good (helped MU), sometimes it gets really old (all of the clapping and saluting at IU games).

However, you imply that he married his wife (a Harbaugh) for the image? Seems a little extreme, no?

[Lennys Tap]

Whether we like it or not, Marquette isnt UNC or Kansas or UCLA.  We have a school thats remarkably dependent on personal connections with the coaching staff, because thats what draws recruits. Its not the Marquette mystique, or that MU is sure to get guys into the pros. If you go to UCLA (esp now) or UNC (since Smith) your attendance isn't as independently based on the personal connections of the recruiting process as they are at a smaller-reputation school like MU. We love that when it works - hell some of the people bashing Wade for this are ironically the biggest Buzz fans for this very reason. But then we have to take the at times pride-damaging hits like this.

If Buzz were to leave in a year or two, I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest to see JFB casually repping the new school threads.  Its a somewhat similar story - remarkably tough background, a story of perseverance, a coach who was personally willing to take a chance the bigger names wouldn't take, and what appears to be a lasting connection in appreciation of that chance. Like it or hate it, MU is the venue for those relationships, but not the reason. And who am I to say that JFB has to love Marquette more than Buzz? To say that Wade has to love MU more than Crean? I think theres little to no chance that binary even occurs to Wade in this situation, but even if it does, he has every right and reason to feel this way. Pretty lame IMO to not recognize the real life, interpersonal implications for what they are and get all pettily offended over the logo.

Burrow, I agree with much in your post. However, coaches such as Bill Self, John Calipari, Ben Howland, Thad Matta and Rick Barnes came from programs at or below MU's profiles on their way to top level programs and I don't recall them using their players from former schools like this.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

See, I actually agree with you that TC is a PR hound. Sometimes its good (helped MU), sometimes it gets really old (all of the clapping and saluting at IU games).

However, you imply that he married his wife (a Harbaugh) for the image? Seems a little extreme, no?

I don't think it's extreme. When you consider his character, I think it's a fact.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I don't think it's extreme. When you consider his character, I think it's a fact.

That's cool.

I'm going to bow out now.

Fundamentally, I can't compete with that belief.

[Lennys Tap]

See, I actually agree with you that TC is a PR hound. Sometimes its good (helped MU), sometimes it gets really old (all of the clapping and saluting at IU games).

However, you imply that he married his wife (a Harbaugh) for the image? Seems a little extreme, no?

From a very sick Al McGuire to Tony La Russa to Mike McCarthy to John Calipari (TC actually called slimy Cal his best friend in the coaching fraternity before the IU - UK scheduling kerfuffel), TC has doggedly courted successful coaches, always then "going public" with the news once he's worked his way into their circle. Given that history, do you really think it coincidental that he fell in love with a girl whose Dad was a successful coach? Given how methodical and driven TC is, I'd say that would be the extreme (and extremely unlikely) position.

[The Equalizer]

If Buzz is coaching at UT and Jimmy Frackin' Butler starts "casuallly" reppin' the Longhorns and tweetin' about it I think Buzz would have the class to tell him to knock it off. And I'm absolutely sure that Buzz wouldn't be behind it. Not so with TC - at an event honoring Wade at Richard's high school, TC used the occasion to say that Wade would have "crawled to Bloomington through broken glass for the chance to play at Indiana". True or not, it's hard to imagine anyone being more calculatingly classless. From marrying the Harbaugh family to courting relationships with the Tony Larussas and Mike McCarthys of the world, Crean has routinely and very publicly sought to benefit from his "relationships". Despite what some here say, that's not how "everbody does it" - it's unseemly, and even worse when contrasted with how Crean treats the people who are not "useful" to him.

And I'm absolutely certain Buzz would love it if one of his former players shows the type of love that Wade shows Crean, and I think he would accept it openly and graciously if offered

Its hard to imagine Buzz being so classless as telling his former pupil to "knock it off, I don't need your help, I can do this on my own".  

And by the way, how is Crean's cultivating relationships any different that Buzz's well-documented letter-writing efforts to build relationships throughout his career?  If you're going to rip on Crean for developing relationships, then you need to rip Buzz for doing the same thing.

[Pakuni]

All successful coaches, by nature and necessity, are shameless self-promoters. Some maybe more so than others ....  but then we're just arguing a matter of degrees, aren't we?

[Jay Bee]

All successful coaches, by nature and necessity, are shameless self-promoters. Some maybe more so than others ....  but then we're just arguing a matter of degrees, aren't we?

Not true; no.

[Lennys Tap]

And by the way, how is Crean's cultivating relationships any different that Buzz's well-documented letter-writing efforts to build relationships throughout his career?  If you're going to rip on Crean for developing relationships, then you need to rip Buzz for doing the same thing.

If you think the relationships Buzz cultivates with that homeless dude or the people in and around Buzz's Bunch resemble Crean's pursuits of Calapari, LaRussa, etal, so be it. If you choose to be blind I can't make you see.

[Pakuni]

Not true; no.

And the exceptions are?

[Lennys Tap]

And I'm absolutely certain Buzz would love it if one of his former players shows the type of love that Wade shows Crean, and I think he would accept it openly and graciously if offered

Its hard to imagine Buzz being so classless as telling his former pupil to "knock it off, I don't need your help, I can do this on my own".  

Buzz already has many former players showing him love. Some of them are guys recruited by Crean who played for Crean for three years. I'm sure they'll continue to "show Buzz love" if he moves on - I just don't think Buzz is the type (so far nobody can find anyone other than Crean who is the type) to use former players to rep their new schools.

[Lennys Tap]

All successful coaches, by nature and necessity, are shameless self-promoters. Some maybe more so than others ....  but then we're just arguing a matter of degrees, aren't we?

Self promoters? Sure, since when you're selling (promoting) the program you're selling yourself. Shameless? That's where we differ. I think some are, most aren't.

[Goose]

If Buzz moved on I think guys he stuck with would help him at new gig. I do not fault coach or players for keeping relationship alive.

[The Equalizer]

Buzz already has many former players showing him love. Some of them are guys recruited by Crean who played for Crean for three years. I'm sure they'll continue to "show Buzz love" if he moves on - I just don't think Buzz is the type (so far nobody can find anyone other than Crean who is the type) to use former players to rep their new schools.

Check out the MU media guide. There is a long list of players who never played for MU being used to "rep" the coaching staff.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

From a very sick Al McGuire to Tony La Russa to Mike McCarthy to John Calipari (TC actually called slimy Cal his best friend in the coaching fraternity before the IU - UK scheduling kerfuffel), TC has doggedly courted successful coaches, always then "going public" with the news once he's worked his way into their circle. Given that history, do you really think it coincidental that he fell in love with a girl whose Dad was a successful coach? Given how methodical and driven TC is, I'd say that would be the extreme (and extremely unlikely) position.

That's fine. I'm not interested in a TC debate/discussion on his personal relationships and marriage.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Lennys Tap]

If Buzz moved on I think guys he stuck with would help him at new gig. I do not fault coach or players for keeping relationship alive.

If Buzz moved on, of course he and his former players would maintain their relationships/friendships. Buzz is all about relationships/friendships. But maintaining friendships is a far cry from blatantly leveraging those relationships for your new school's benefit. The fact that nobody can come up with an example of a coach using a player from a former school the way TC has Wade should make that obvious to everyone without his head in the sand.