Can the Non football Schools put pressure on remaning football schools?

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

Kind of reverse the fortunes if you will...

There are still a few football schools that dont have a home:
Rutgers
Lousiville
Cincinatti
UCONN
etc

What if the non-football teams formed a league almost immediately and left all of the remaining football schools without a home?  Get a TV contract for the BBall only league on NBC Sports if you have to.  Leave any of the aformentioned football schools out and dont invite them.  After all, isnt it almost inevitable that the football schools remaining leave us at some point anyway?  Let them scramble for a home rather than the other way around...

[Tugg Speedman]

Force them to do what? 

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

Force them to do what? 

Find somewhere to go on a different time table than whenever they want to.  Form a new Bball only league next year with G-town, Nova, xavier, temple etc.  Dont invite any of the remaning football teams.

[MerrittsMustache]

Find somewhere to go on a different time table than whenever they want to.  Form a new Bball only league next year with G-town, Nova, xavier, temple etc.  Dont invite any of the remaning football teams.

What would that accomplish? Louisville, Cincy and UConn are all more valuable programs than DePaul, Seton Hall, Providence and Xavier.

Also, Temple has a football program.

The only thing the bball-only schools could do is threaten to leave the football schools without a home, get them to agree to up the exit fee significantly and hope the football schools don't call their bluff. Not likely.

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

What would that accomplish? Louisville, Cincy and UConn are all more valuable programs than DePaul, Seton Hall, Providence and Xavier.

Also, Temple has a football program.

I agree, but dont you also agree that they will at some point leave us in the dust?  As of right now, they dont really have a football home.  why wait for them to align with a conference and set up a TV deal, only to leave us scrambling.  Set up our own deal on our own time table and make them scramble.  How long will UCONN be a valueable program in Basketball?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

...why wait for them to align with a conference and set up a TV deal, only to leave us scrambling....

The simple answer is that the BEAST in its current form is still a lot more valuable than a hoops only conference. Talk to the other schools on the side, but ride this pony 'til she bucks.

At that point (FB schools leaving), if the basketball schools are smart, they will enact the contingency plan that they have already agreed upon.

Plus, the $ college sports is escalating at a tremendous rate. It might be a bubble, it might simply be the new reality. Either way, a basketball-only conference can be set-up in 2017 just as easy as it can in 2013.

[bilsu]

Basketball schools jump ship and they might have to pay a buyout fee. Let things take their course and collect buyout fees as from Louisville, Uconn, etc. It is the best chance for the basketball schools to remain together with a few football teams.

[The Equalizer]

Kind of reverse the fortunes if you will...

There are still a few football schools that dont have a home:
Rutgers
Lousiville
Cincinatti
UCONN
etc

What if the non-football teams formed a league almost immediately and left all of the remaining football schools without a home?  Get a TV contract for the BBall only league on NBC Sports if you have to.  Leave any of the aformentioned football schools out and dont invite them.  After all, isnt it almost inevitable that the football schools remaining leave us at some point anyway?  Let them scramble for a home rather than the other way around...

First, the football teams won't be "scrambling" for a home.  If the basketball teams leave, the football teams will start out with a pretty strong 10-team core (UL, UC, UConn, Memphis, Temple, USF, UCF, SMU, Houston, and Rutgers).  They'll also have the Big East's automatic bid to the NCAA basketball tourney, the Big East's brand value, a contract for a tournament in MSG and who knows what else.  

Meanwhile . . .
1.  The new league would not have an automatic bid for 5 years.
2.  The new league would not have the brand value of the Big East.
3.  The new league would not play its conference tournament at Madison Square Garden
4.  The new league would arguably be less competitive than the A-10.

Why would you leave the Big East--as disfunctional as it is--for a new conference with all these drawbacks?

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

First, the football teams won't be "scrambling" for a home.  If the basketball teams leave, the football teams will start out with a pretty strong 10-team core (UL, UC, UConn, Memphis, Temple, USF, UCF, SMU, Houston, and Rutgers).  They'll also have the Big East's automatic bid to the NCAA basketball tourney, the Big East's brand value, a contract for a tournament in MSG and who knows what else.  

Meanwhile . . .
1.  The new league would not have an automatic bid for 5 years.
2.  The new league would not have the brand value of the Big East.
3.  The new league would not play its conference tournament at Madison Square Garden
4.  The new league would arguably be less competitive than the A-10.

Why would you leave the Big East--as disfunctional as it is--for a new conference with all these drawbacks?

strong core?  Are you kidding?  that may as well be 1 double A as far as football is concerned.  There is a reason none of those teams were invited to the big conferences...  

Automatic bid to what?  A bowl game?  That is the point... there are no football schools in the new conference.

the new conference with G-town, xavier, villanova is leaps and bounds ahead of the a-10...

[Benny B]

Make no mistake, the non-football schools in the Big East already have "disproportionate" negotiating power considering they don't even participate in the most popular collegiate sport (during the months of Sep-Dec).

This isn't to say they're driving the bus, but they're not sitting at the kiddy table either.  In any event, I don't think the the current state of affairs has given them any more leverage, and so if they were going to throw their weight around, I wouldn't make that decision based solely upon such.

[The Equalizer]

strong core?  Are you kidding?  that may as well be 1 double A as far as football is concerned.  There is a reason none of those teams were invited to the big conferences...

Those 10 teams sent five teams to the NCAA tournament last year.  One of them (Louisville) appears to be a consensus top 5 team going into 2013. 

It would certainly be a stronger basketball conference than the new basketball league proposed at the start of this thread. 

Automatic bid to what?  A bowl game?  

That is the point... there are no football schools in the new conference.

Hmm.

For which tournament would a basketball conference want an automatic bid? 

Hmm.

the new conference with G-town, xavier, villanova is leaps and bounds ahead of the a-10...

Well, first, there is no new conference with Georgetown, Xavier and Villanova.  While you might wish otherwise, Xavier is currently in the A-10. 

And if you look at the A-10 as its comprised today to the seven basketball-only programs from the Big East, it is arguably stronger going into 2013 than the Big East teams. 

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

Those 10 teams sent five teams to the NCAA tournament last year.  One of them (Louisville) appears to be a consensus top 5 team going into 2013. 

It would certainly be a stronger basketball conference than the new basketball league proposed at the start of this thread. 

Hmm.

For which tournament would a basketball conference want an automatic bid? 

Hmm.

Well, first, there is no new conference with Georgetown, Xavier and Villanova.  While you might wish otherwise, Xavier is currently in the A-10. 
And if you look at the A-10 as its comprised today to the seven basketball-only programs from the Big East, it is arguably stronger going into 2013 than the Big East teams. 

]

Umm no sh!t sherlock.  I know there is no new conference.  That is the point of the thread.  To get those teams into a new conference.  The auto bid would be nearly inconsequential to a conference with G-town, nova, mu, xavier, providence etc.  They would get their share.  Xavier would jump at those teams isntead of who they play now.

[frozena pizza]

Try telling Seton Hall, Providence and DePaul that they should kick Louisville and UConn out of the league so the conference can focus on basketball.

[chapman]

Find somewhere to go on a different time table than whenever they want to.  Form a new Bball only league next year with G-town, Nova, xavier, temple etc.  Dont invite any of the remaning football teams.

You do know that Temple is already a Big East football school?

The remaining football teams would suffer less than the non-football schools that separated.  They will have a 12 member football conference next year and of the 10 playing basketball in conference about 5 of their programs should make the NCAA tournament.  The separatists would have 7 schools plus any schools that join from other conferences, maybe amounting to 4 NCAA calibur teams.  There's more garbage at the bottom, but we're still looking at an 8 or 9 bid league of the 17 members.

Try telling Seton Hall, Providence and DePaul that they should kick Louisville and UConn out of the league so the conference can focus on basketball.

And this.  Give up games against Louisville, Uconn, Cincinnati, Memphis...we'll send TBD to your house instead.  If you're really lucky they'll come from the A-10.  We'll tell the networks that too and see how much they're willing to pay to televise it.

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

You do know that Temple is already a Big East football school?

The remaining football teams would suffer less than the non-football schools that separated.  They will have a 12 member football conference next year and of the 10 playing basketball in conference about 5 of their programs should make the NCAA tournament.  The separatists would have 7 schools plus any schools that join from other conferences, maybe amounting to 4 NCAA calibur teams.  There's more garbage at the bottom, but we're still looking at an 8 or 9 bid league of the 17 members.

And this.  Give up games against Louisville, Uconn, Cincinnati, Memphis...we'll send TBD to your house instead.  If you're really lucky they'll come from the A-10.  We'll tell the networks that too and see how much they're willing to pay to televise it.

so what hapens when Lousiville leaves...
Uconn...
Memphis...
Rutgers...

[The Equalizer]

]

Umm no sh!t sherlock.  I know there is no new conference.  That is the point of the thread.  To get those teams into a new conference. 

What you haven't answered is why those teams want to get in a new conference?

Xavier already regularly sells out its arena.  Already gets every game on national or regional television.  First place league finishes in five of the last six years.  Already has regular high-level NCAA success, with nine tourney appearances, three Sweet 16s and two Elite Eights in the last 10 years.  Already gets invited to elite-level tournaments (Maui, Nike megaevent).

So what, specifically, do you think this new league will give Xavier that they don't already have? 

[muguru]

so what hapens when Lousiville leaves...
Uconn...
Memphis...
Rutgers...

Where's Louisville going?? The ACC isn't taking any more teams, and the BXII is happy with 10. That's what i don't get. Everyone says "Louisville is leaving eventually". To where?? NO ONE wants them. They'd be a cash drain(for football) for any conference, not a draw.

[chapman]

so what hapens when Lousiville leaves...
Uconn...
Memphis...
Rutgers...

Then we find a home or make this split from the conference.  We don't need to make a preemptive move for something that could be many years off when with the non-football conference option will still be possible then.  That window isn't closing anytime soon, others may open up, we just have to remember that sometimes doing nothing isn't the worst thing.

[Tugg Speedman]

Where's Louisville going?? The ACC isn't taking any more teams, and the BXII is happy with 10. That's what i don't get. Everyone says "Louisville is leaving eventually". To where?? NO ONE wants them. They'd be a cash drain(for football) for any conference, not a draw.

+1

The huge losers are the BE football schools like Uconn, ville, cincy, not basketball only schools.  The FB schools WANT to go to a major power football conference but they are not wanted.  As noted above, the ACC and B12 are done.  The BE football schools are not going to the SEC, Pac-12 or B10.

Yeah Louisville and Cincy can go to the Missouri Valley conference, but then they trash their basketball programs, they would become SLU to use a popular phrase around here.  Pitino would quit the ville the day BEFORE they made that kind of move.

That's why many say the conference movements are done, and I agree.  The music has stopped and the chair you're in is the one you're going to have for a while.  So, the BE doesn't have to do anything, this process is now over.

[The Equalizer]

Yeah Louisville and Cincy can go to the Missouri Valley conference, but then they trash their basketball programs, they would become SLU to use a popular phrase around here.  Pitino would quit the ville the day BEFORE they made that kind of move.

The notion that a conference makes or breaks a team is utter nonsense.

Is Memphis' basketbal program trashed? Gonzaga's?  Butler's?  Xavier's?  What about VCU, Murry State or Creighton?  Trash?  Hardly.

in fact, DePaul is living proof that you can make all the right conference moves and still wind up becomming "trash." St. Johns, Seton Hall, Providence, USF, and Rutgers aren't far behind--all easily deeper in the trashbin than SLU.

Seems to me that Cincy trashed themselves by firing Huggins, and it took them five years to get themselves out of the dumper.  And that was while they were in the Big East.  Amazing how that happened without having to join the Valley.

Penn State and Northwestern make a pretty good case that you trash your basketball program in the Big Ten, and Wake Forest and Boston College are trying to make the case that you can do it in the ACC.

So please, the notion that playing in the Missouri Valley would somehow "trash" Louisvlle  is just silly.  Louisville will still have some of the most rabid fans in college basketball, still sell out the Yum center, still have one of the highest budgets in college sports funded by alums and boosters.  They'll be able to afford any coach they want, and recruits will still flock to them. 

[Pakuni]

What you haven't answered is why those teams want to get in a new conference?

Xavier already regularly sells out its arena.  Already gets every game on national or regional television.  First place league finishes in five of the last six years.  Already has regular high-level NCAA success, with nine tourney appearances, three Sweet 16s and two Elite Eights in the last 10 years.  Already gets invited to elite-level tournaments (Maui, Nike megaevent).

So what, specifically, do you think this new league will give Xavier that they don't already have? 

$$$$$.
A new, better conference isn't likely to have any effect - good or bad - on Xavier's ability to sell out its games, appear on television (except more national games, possibly) and get to the tourney.
It should, however, mean more television revenue and more NCAA share revenue.

[Tugg Speedman]

In basketball every year Louisville recruits and plays to win the National Championship (NC).  When they do win it, it is not some feel-good story that will be film starring Gene Hackman.  Rather, it is understood this is what they do, play to win it all, and that year they did it.

If the trustees of Louisville somehow thought they would be better served by moving to The Valley, the above Paragraph no longer applies for their basketball program.  And if you do not think Pitino immediately retires should they make this kind of move, then you're not paying attention. The only reason Pitino sticks around now is he thinks he might be able to squeeze one more NC out of his program.  Not happening in The Valley.

Sure they would still have a winning team, get ranked and even make the Tourney, but so does SLU.

[Tugg Speedman]

$$$$$.
A new, better conference isn't likely to have any effect - good or bad - on Xavier's ability to sell out its games, appear on television (except more national games, possibly) and get to the tourney.
It should, however, mean more television revenue and more NCAA share revenue.

+1 and Amen

Why is it so hard for everyone to "get it" (especially groin_pull)?  All these conference realignments are about one thing and only one thing ... getting as much money as possible.  Games are sold as part of a conference package to a network, and if you get better teams, you can extract more money out of the network TV contract.

Xavier will move to the Big East because they will get more money than the A-10, full stop, nothing more needs to be discussed as nothing else matters.  And, as I said earlier, if the network said they would get more money if a state prison basketball team was added to the conference, they would add them too.

So please stop citing history, previous success academics and/or geography.  These factors are only excuses to sell to the public, not the reasons for these moves.  The moves are made because networks say they are willing to pay more if certain schools move to certain conferences.   And this is why Uconn/Rutgers/Cincy/Lousiville and USF are still in the BE.  I'm sure the ACC/B10/B12 asked the networks how much their TV contracts will be worth if they added one or more of these schools and they discovered they cannot pay from themselves (increase the TV contract by enough to offset the decreased conference share of the deal).  In other words, they have no value to a power football conference so they stay in the BE and the conference shuffling is over.

[brewcity77]

This is definitely one time I wish CBB was still around.

Say we formed a 12-team basketball only conference. Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, Providence, Seton Hall, DePaul, St John's, Xavier, Dayton, VCU, Butler, and St Louis. You can probably mix and match 2-3 of those teams, but I'd guess that at least 75% of those would be on any list, and no one else would make any measureable difference.

Anyway...take those 12 and offer up a 16-18 game schedule and first rights on non-con games. First, who would be interested? NBC Sports reportedly isn't interested in Big East basketball because the NHL covers their programming. Would ESPN bite? CBS or Fox Sports? And would any give full national coverage? Also, what would we get per team? I definitely don't think it'd equal our current take. Right now we get a bit over $2M per year, and rumor has it we could be in for a $4M payday with a new contract. So what would a basketball-only league get? $2M? $1.5? My fear is under $1M, and lucky to get true national coverage.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Anyway...take those 12 and offer up a 16-18 game schedule and first rights on non-con games. First, who would be interested? NBC Sports reportedly isn't interested in Big East basketball because the NHL covers their programming. Would ESPN bite? CBS or Fox Sports? And would any give full national coverage? Also, what would we get per team? I definitely don't think it'd equal our current take. Right now we get a bit over $2M per year, and rumor has it we could be in for a $4M payday with a new contract. So what would a basketball-only league get? $2M? $1.5? My fear is under $1M, and lucky to get true national coverage.

I actually think we are headed for a big shift in how content is distributed.

In theory, the "new big east" wouldn't really need a traditional network. "google sports"* could partner for the rights to stream all of the games and then pay the teams based upon the ad sales. Far less viewers, but advertisers might pay more because it can't be DVR'd and fast forwarded, and the ads could be customized and targeted based upon the viewers internet usage.

Issues:
*this doesn't exist, yet.
- Schools love the broad viewership numbers of traditional television

This might be 5-10 years down the road... but this is probably coming (maybe for Texas Sports?)