Who is Next?

[NersEllenson]

Hmm. Interesting point.
Buzz never played a minute of D-1 basketball. Just who does he think he is, going around claiming he can help make these guys better players?

And further more...you don't hear Buzz going around beating his chest saying claiming how he makes players better.....

but of course your boy Larry Williams is happy and quick to tell the Journal Sentinel he looks forward to helping Buzz become a better coach.  Pure comedy!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Actually, it is true - great leaders lead by gaining the support of those around them and underneath them - and they do this by building up trust, respect, and goodwill - generally gained through a pattern of appreciating and treating people well, yet nudging them to also improve in an appropriate forum.

The dynamics of a coach and player relationship is far different than that of 2 grown men in an A.D., and Head Coaching role.  Please go find me another example of an Athletic Director less than 4 months on the job, calling out his successful head coach of 4 years in a local newspaper...for an issue that is not in any way, shape or form....immoral personal conduct.

And Buzz has earned the trust, clout, and respect of his players to be able to criticize them as he sees fit.  The players he recruits CHOSE to be be coached by him, Buzz didn't choose to be coached by Larry Williams.  Totally different dynamic.

#1 You are correct, the player/coach dynamics are different, but the psychology of "You haven't done what I have done" is still in play (the human element). It doesn't make the situations equal, but the psychology shouldn't be completely dismissed.

#2 I'm sure Buzz critiqued players that he didn't recruit, right? What about David? Or Burke? Those guys didn't chose to play for Buzz. Does that make a difference?

#3 Buzz did not chose to work for Larry, so that is a factor. However, it would be a factor for any AD, not just Larry. It's not an easy thing to come in and manage a high performing employee. It should be, but obviously it can have it's pitfalls. Hopefully LW and BW are working it out.


Ners, I think your opinion that Larry is bad for MU might be correct (TBD, in my opinion), but it seems like you are traveling a long way on your theories to always arrive that same opinion. Maybe not everything is Larry's fault?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

And further more...you don't hear Buzz going around beating his chest saying claiming how he makes players better.....

but of course your boy Larry Williams is happy and quick to tell the Journal Sentinel he looks forward to helping Buzz become a better coach.  Pure comedy!

I've never been recruited by Buzz Williams, but my guess is that part of the pitch is how he can help me excel as a person and as a player.

In fact, wasn't that featured in the whole "Tip their bottle over" part of the MU hoops documentary?

[Dawson Rental]

And further more...you don't hear Buzz going around beating his chest saying claiming how he makes players better.....

but of course your boy Larry Williams is happy and quick to tell the Journal Sentinel he looks forward to helping Buzz become a better coach.  Pure comedy!

If MU security monitored this site, they'd have to give serious consideration to banning you from any function where Larry Williams would be in attendance.  You're getting that scary. 

[NersEllenson]

I've never been recruited by Buzz Williams, but my guess is that part of the pitch is how he can help me excel as a person and as a player.

In fact, wasn't that featured in the whole "Tip their bottle over" part of the MU hoops documentary?

Of course...a coach has to sell during the recruitment.  But to beat his chest after a players career about how he made them so much better would be quite egotistical, and Buzz has never done that.  Buzz has skins on the wall in Wes, Lazar, Jimmy, Jae and DJO to all vouch for him.  What in Larry Williams experience has he accomplished that would help or make him qualified to help Buzz become a better coach??  

Last point - some feel LW is being directed by above - so I should qualify the criticism.  If he's simply taking his marching orders, then the issue certainly is even more concerning...and my criticism of LW is misguided.

[NersEllenson]

If MU security monitored this site, they'd have to give serious consideration to banning you from any function where Larry Williams would be in attendance.  You're getting that scary. 

Oh please.  It's simply a topic of debate regarding the current state of the hoops program.  If Buzz leaves MU, and the hoops program goes to crap...Larry will likely be gone soon enough anyway...unless of course the BOT and Admin don't really care about Men's Hoops, or want it to look more like Duke and Stanford - yet not realizing MU is FAR from those schools with regard to national reputation.

[Hards Alumni]

And you are about as pompous, arrogant and ignorant as the remarks Larry Williams made.  Though I  HIGHLY doubt you have ever been in any kind of leadership/managerial position - in the highly unlikely event you have been - there is no doubt the people under your charge hate working underneath you.  Furthermore, though you claim to have gotten an A in your Intro to Psych class  - seems you failed to learn the basic principle that people are motivated far more when appreciated, and supported, than when criticized publicly...particularly when the person doing the criticizing has little to no credibility to do so...and never walked a day in your shoes. 

Secretly, I love you.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Last point - some feel LW is being directed by above - so I should qualify the criticism.  If he's simply taking his marching orders, then the issue certainly is even more concerning...and my criticism of LW is misguided.

Is it also possible that not everything is LW's fault?

[augoman]

you know it's possible and likely that there are some problems with our basketball program, and it's possible and likely that Larry was directed by BOT and or president to deal with them.

[4everwarriors]

Some cats wanna shoot the messenger.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Some cats wanna shoot the messenger.

I always hated cats

[Skatastrophy]

I can't wait for basketball season to start.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I can't wait for basketball season to start.

20 days and counting...

[mr.MUskie]

I always hated cats

what about hairy wet cats?

[brewcity77]

I'm not going to say LW is perfect. Honestly, I have quite a few issues with how he's handled things. But can we just let the "make him a better coach" line die? It was an eternity ago right after he took the job. The guy was talking about his new gig, and in all honesty, shouldn't part of any boss's role be to help his employees get better?

The guy gets crucified over and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and over for the same line that in all honesty really doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. Let it go already.

[Blackhat]

brew, it's time for a brew dude.

[brewcity77]

brew, it's time for a brew dude.

What can I say? Ners has been on repeat with that same line pretty much every single day for the past 7 months. Honestly, I probably put about 1/10th as many "overs" in that post as he has put his issues with the "better coach" line in his posts. At some point, once you have beaten the horse to death, driven over it with your car, ground its bones into glue, used it to stick "I hate Larry Williams" stencils onto a piece of paper, and burned said paper (and horse glue) to ashes, maybe it's time to let it go.

[We R Final Four]

Why do people use the word 'honestly' or the words 'to be honest with you'? Shouldn't that go with saying? Should we disregard other comments unless they're are prefaced with a statement about your honesty? Love your stuff Brew, but 4 honestlies in 2 posts.......I mean honestly.

[real chili 83]

Cause he's an effin domer. 

Sorry, just couldnt resist!

I'm not going to say LW is perfect. Honestly, I have quite a few issues with how he's handled things. But can we just let the "make him a better coach" line die? It was an eternity ago right after he took the job. The guy was talking about his new gig, and in all honesty, shouldn't part of any boss's role be to help his employees get better?

The guy gets crucified over and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and and over and over and over and over for the same line that in all honesty really doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. Let it go already.

[NersEllenson]

What can I say? Ners has been on repeat with that same line pretty much every single day for the past 7 months. Honestly, I probably put about 1/10th as many "overs" in that post as he has put his issues with the "better coach" line in his posts. At some point, once you have beaten the horse to death, driven over it with your car, ground its bones into glue, used it to stick "I hate Larry Williams" stencils onto a piece of paper, and burned said paper (and horse glue) to ashes, maybe it's time to let it go.

Guess we can move on the Larry's more recent quote pertaining to Buzz's rough edges...you know...the kind of rough edges that made Al McGuire probably our most famous figure, and largely beloved throughout all of college basketball.  But hey, in the politically correct world of today and apparently this administration....we need to smooth out those rough edges, because our head coach may irrevocably offend somebody....or have his head explode from tying his tie too tight.

It was a collection of stupid comments, beyond the help Buzz be a better coach - and more recently LW offered up the Buzz's rough edges comment.  What idiotic university calls out its best head coach in 35 years for trivial crap??  Has Buzz cheated on his wife?  Been caught on a motorcycle with a woman 20 years younger?  I mean really....a little 2 step walking off the court in W.V., was so offensive?  Buzz has had ZERO character slips from a personal conduct/morality point of view....whereas Rick Pitino can continue on at Louisville after cheating on his wife in an LVille restaurant.  Huggins continue on after numerous personal conduct issues involving alcohol.  Just pointing out a little perspective Brew...at how ridiculous it is that MU is even in a tenuous position at best with arguably its biggest asset.

[Pakuni]

Guess we can move on the Larry's more recent quote pertaining to Buzz's rough edges...you know...the kind of rough edges that made Al McGuire probably our most famous figure, and largely beloved throughout all of college basketball.

Where was that quote again? Link?

Anyhow, relax, Ners. Brew is just doing his best to help make you a better MU Scooper.

[NersEllenson]

Where was that quote again? Link?

Anyhow, relax, Ners. Brew is just doing his best to help make you a better MU Scooper.

From a Don Walker radio interview at time of Monarch issue:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=415&f=2850&t=9217487

Note that the MU didn't even need to go public with the secondary infraction..yet still put it out there to the media...perhaps to fit the narrative...that Buzz has "rough edges" with how he runs his program...

[Pakuni]

From a Don Walker radio interview at time of Monarch issue:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=415&f=2850&t=9217487

Note that the MU didn't even need to go public with the secondary infraction..yet still put it out there to the media...perhaps to fit the narrative...that Buzz has "rough edges" with how he runs his program...

That's not a quote.
That's Don Walker paraphrasing.
There's a difference.

And you're deluding yourself if you believe the "rough edges" to which Walker refers are the same as those of Al McGuire.

[NersEllenson]

That's not a quote.
That's Don Walker paraphrasing.
There's a difference.

And you're deluding yourself if you believe the "rough edges" to which Walker refers are the same as those of Al McGuire.

Do we have a direct quote from Larry Williams stating Buzz has rough edges that need to be smoothed out?  No.  Would Don Walker go on air and fabricate and make things up that he wasn't told?  No.  Therefore you "win" this debate on the technicality...yet to a reasonable individual they would draw the same conclusion - that Larry Williams made the comment.

What I would like to know is, could you please inform me how you know the nature of the rough edges to which Walker refers are different than those of Al McGuire- when an hour ago you didn't even know the topic existed?  So, what are these rough edges about Buzz that need to be smoothed?

[Pakuni]

What I would like to know is, could you please inform me how you know the nature of the rough edges to which Walker refers are different than those of Al McGuire- when an hour ago you didn't even know the topic existed?  So, what are these rough edges about Buzz that need to be smoothed?

I would have thought one would have to be willfully ignorant to not know what Walker is talking about.

But maybe you're right. The administration's issues aren't about players appearing in the police blotter, the sex assault allegations, the pulling of scholarship(s), the player suspensions, etc.
What's really got them steamed are Buzz's personality quirks.