[Cracked Sidewalks] - MU & Self-Reporting

[Lennys Tap]

My "DERP DERP HERP DERP" are as follows:
1. Derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp. derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp!  PROVE ME WRONG!.
2. Derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp
derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp PROVE ME WRONG!
3. derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp NOBODY HAS PROVEN ME WRONG YET!

HERPY DERP DERP DERP HERP DERP!   PROVE ME WRONG!

I hate Larry Williams, and I'm a bitter human being, and I won't let facts get in the way of my misguided conspiracy theory that he's out to destroy Marquette basketball. 


FIXED!



 

Lab - You are often humorous and occasionally even insightful. You're currently mired in a slump of epic proportion and this post serves as exhibit A.

For the record, I don't hate LW and I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories of any sort, including one that says he's out to destroy Marquette basketball. But I admit that what I've seen and heard from him thus far gives me pause.

Buzz didn't leave for second rate SMU last April and you use that as evidence that he and LW are copasetic. I think it far more logical to conclude that Buzz even speaking to a school several levels below MU suggests otherwise. Those unable to connect simple dots can rail against the tinfoilers, but how much credence does one wearing the dunce cap get?

[bilsu]

Unfortunately I do not see two Williams surviving at MU and it will only be a matter of time before Buzz leaves. People will jump all over him, because he said he would be at MU as long as MU wants him, but this was before Larry showed up.

[Goose]

Larry might be part of the problem with Buzz but I think it goes higher up than just Larry. I would be beyond shocked if Buzz and brass can mend the fences. Heard from someone I trust a great deal that he is was not optimistic about Buzz being here long term. That said, he added with Buzz you never know what he will do or say. Buzz probably is too loose of a cannon for MU's comfot zone. I see no way Buzz changes his style because plenty of schools would love to have him the way he is.

[NersEllenson]

Yet MU's greatest known figure - Al McGuire - was a loose cannon and revered. My how the politically correct times have changed our society for the worse.  Pretty sure Al McGuire had rough edges that seem to be a concern to Larry Williams with regard to Buzz. Might as well enjoy Buzz while we have him and not worry about when he leaves.

[GGGG]

Marquette and college basketball were different then.  Not necessarily for the better or worse - just different. 

[madtownwarrior]

Let's see the past 3 years - along with awesome team performance, recruiting and player development, MU also has had:

- Two sexual assault allegations with high media attention
- Bar fight with high media attention
- Vander blue altercation
- Significant number of players accepted scholarship but never making it to the team (Roseboro, Newbill, Taylor)
- Significant number of transfers (Maymon, Smith, Williams, Jones, Mbao) - yeah I know the national average
- Goofy exchanges with media (Buzz / Mclavine)
- Funny but probably disrespectful display of sportsmanship (WVU)
- Rumors of academic struggles
- Minor reported NCAA infraction



There ARE rough edges with Buzz and the program right now.   A few of these by them self are likely fine.  All of these together,- I would expect the University wanting some more control and direction setting.

Now - I would expect Larry / Pilarz to do it in a way that Buzz is agreeable to.   And if Buzz is true about "developing men not just basketball payers," I would expect Buzz to be able to adapt his ways and with behaviors & results to be more agreeable to the university.

However, if Buzz and LW / FP can't work together, yes Buzz it likely moving on when he can...

[kmwtrucks]

MU's only identity as a school other then if you live in WISC or goto a catholic school From Chicago is the basketball team.  Donations, and the quality of students goes up as the team gets better.   Buzz has a winning record in the NCAA with 4 straight appearances.  Things like this get us invited to play on a aircraft.  His 2013 class is shaping up to be one of the best in 30 years.  His player's have graduated, His player's in the NBA. Wes, Lazar, Butler, Crowder the coachs Rave about them.  

I think people should keep letting the Pres and LW know that we support MU and Buzz, but at this point the jury is still out on them.  I also Hope Cords and Wild talk some sense into them.  We get lucky with a great hire in Buzz but you would be kidding yourself if you thought you could get that lucky again.
all the recruits talk about Buzz you take that away and the recruits go elsewhere.

18 year kids like to be around funny and happy go lucky people.  sometime that comes off as rough edges but for the most part all that does is make them good recruiter's and Buzz seems to take mentoring the student athletes seriuosly.  

that is tough to hear that LW and the above feel need to put the screws on buzz.  

[GGGG]

I'm sorry, but I think it is incredibly insulting to MU to say that its "only identity as a school" if you live outside the area is the basketball team.  Marquette's basketball team means a lot to its students and alumni, but it can't be defined by it.

Furthermore, as madtownwarrior points out, there are a number of things associated with the basketball team that have drawn negative attention to the University.  Some of those aren't their fault nor can it be helped, but they do draw negative attention nevertheless.

I'm not saying that they want to turn MU into SLU, but I am pretty sure this administration would put up with slightly poorer results on the court if it meant cutting down on the negative press associated with the team.  IOW, I think they preferred the Crean era to the Buzz era. 

[Rubie Q]

I'm sorry, but I think it is incredibly insulting to MU to say that its "only identity as a school" if you live outside the area is the basketball team.  Marquette's basketball team means a lot to its students and alumni, but it can't be defined by it.

Furthermore, as madtownwarrior points out, there are a number of things associated with the basketball team that have drawn negative attention to the University.  Some of those aren't their fault nor can it be helped, but they do draw negative attention nevertheless.

I'm not saying that they want to turn MU into SLU, but I am pretty sure this administration would put up with slightly poorer results on the court if it meant cutting down on the negative press associated with the team.  IOW, I think they preferred the Crean era to the Buzz era. 

Well said.

[Lennys Tap]

However, if Buzz and LW / FP can't work together, yes Buzz it likely moving on when he can...

You've been quick to ridicule me and others for saying as much. I'll let bygones be bygones...welcome. 7 1/4 or 7 3/8 on your complimentary tinfoil hat?

[connie]

Sometimes it is easier to accept the disingenuous, smiling Eddie Haskell wannabe than the honest but less polished suitor.

[kmwtrucks]

Only might be a stretch.  All I can tell you is 10 years ago 1/2 of people that I talked to in the Midwest had no clue where MU was, and the other 1/2 of them thought it was in Marquette Mi.  Now almost every person I talk to mentions Milwaukee and how good we are at basketball.   It is a fact that Donations and the quality of the student and educational rankings have gone up since or BBALL team has gotten better, no one can argue that.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm not saying that they want to turn MU into SLU, but I am pretty sure this administration would put up with slightly poorer results on the court if it meant cutting down on the negative press associated with the team.  IOW, I think they preferred the Crean era to the Buzz era. 

Agree with your analysis, disagree with the administration. Buzz puts a better product on the the floor and for my money is a much better leader/face of the university than TC ever was. TC was better at covering stuff up and keeping it "in house" but that ship sailed when our policy about reporting possible crimes to the MPD changed.

[Lennys Tap]

Sometimes it is easier to accept the disingenuous, smiling Eddie Haskell wannabe than the honest but less polished suitor.

Perfectly said. Sometimes people are taken in by phonies because they're naive. Other times it's because they're co-conspirators.

[Goose]

Madtown

I completely agree with your points. We have had enough issues even to make me squirm a tad. Stated it in March/April and will say it again, MU does not want program to be a black eye to school. Whole thing comes down to comfort level and how much rope Buzz is given. No way is Buzz is changing and either MU lets him do his thing or he moves on. Buzz has a lot of grey area in him and that is not for everyone.

When all is said and done it will be decided by MU elavuating risk vs. reward with Buzz. I agree with Sultan that less ball success and less troubles might be good choice for them.

[GGGG]

Only might be a stretch.  All I can tell you is 10 years ago 1/2 of people that I talked to in the Midwest had no clue where MU was, and the other 1/2 of them thought it was in Marquette Mi.  Now almost every person I talk to mentions Milwaukee and how good we are at basketball.   It is a fact that Donations and the quality of the student and educational rankings have gone up since or BBALL team has gotten better, no one can argue that.

But making the assumption that basketball is the sole, or even the primary, reason behind those "upgrades" may not be entirely accurate.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

MU's only identity as a school other then if you live in WISC or goto a catholic school From Chicago is the basketball team.  Donations, and the quality of students goes up as the team gets better.   Buzz has a winning record in the NCAA with 4 straight appearances.  Things like this get us invited to play on a aircraft.  His 2013 class is shaping up to be one of the best in 30 years.  His player's have graduated, His player's in the NBA. Wes, Lazar, Butler, Crowder the coachs Rave about them.  

I think people should keep letting the Pres and LW know that we support MU and Buzz, but at this point the jury is still out on them.  I also Hope Cords and Wild talk some sense into them.  We get lucky with a great hire in Buzz but you would be kidding yourself if you thought you could get that lucky again.
all the recruits talk about Buzz you take that away and the recruits go elsewhere.

18 year kids like to be around funny and happy go lucky people.  sometime that comes off as rough edges but for the most part all that does is make them good recruiter's and Buzz seems to take mentoring the student athletes seriuosly.  

that is tough to hear that LW and the above feel need to put the screws on buzz.  

The basketball program is MU's #1 marketing tool.

Buzz Williams is putting a quality product on the floor.

HOWEVER, we (alumni) and the school need to keep things in perspective. When we start clinging to athletics as the lifeblood of the school, we run a dangerous path where making the right choices becomes increasingly difficult.

[GGGG]

Agree with your analysis, disagree with the administration. Buzz puts a better product on the the floor and for my money is a much better leader/face of the university than TC ever was. TC was better at covering stuff up and keeping it "in house" but that ship sailed when our policy about reporting possible crimes to the MPD changed.

I agree with you.  And I am not talking about Crean himself.  What I am saying is that I think they would trade a little of the positive to get rid of most of the negative.

[madtownwarrior]

No Lenny, the reason why I may ridicule you is that you insist (over and over) that there ARE serious problems between LW and Buzz and that LW is putting the screws to Buzz based on your interpretation of the Journal Sentinel article after the WVU game.

I, nor really anybody here, have no idea what the actual relationship status is between LW and Buzz.

What I am saying here is that I think MU is entitled to some improvements in behaviors of the program and that LW should be able to find a way to encourage or guide Buzz in a way that is acceptable to Buzz and Buzz should be open to such guidance if it helps him develop a better program and men.

If neither of these are true, then Buzz may be gone.    You jump immediately to the LW (the ND ahole) is screwing Buzz and Buzz is gone ASAP.

You've been quick to ridicule me and others for saying as much. I'll let bygones be bygones...welcome. 7 1/4 or 7 3/8 on your complimentary tinfoil hat?

[Goose]

Madtown
Only problem with your LW and Buzz relationship comment is you assume nobody knows how the relationship between the two are.

Guns n Ammo
Think you are spot on. Penn State allowing a sport to run a school may be biggest mistake in sports history. Every school now has different bar for sports and the role they play at their schools. MU brass may have lowered their bar a great deal since FP and LW arrived.

[madtownwarrior]

Given what has been proclaimed "to happen" on this site by posters with "sources" and "insider" knowledge and what has actually happened this past summer - yes, I don't think there is a whole of of factual insights to the program here (other than BigDaddy)....  lots of speculation and "people I trust" statements but not a lot of reality as to whole the events actually turned out... 

and, yes, where there is smoke there is likely fire (or maybe just LW giving Buzz a "hot foot")

[Lennys Tap]

I agree with you.  And I am not talking about Crean himself.  What I am saying is that I think they would trade a little of the positive to get rid of most of the negative.

Fair and logical analysis.

[Aughnanure]

I'm sorry, but I think it is incredibly insulting to MU to say that its "only identity as a school" if you live outside the area is the basketball team.  Marquette's basketball team means a lot to its students and alumni, but it can't be defined by it.

Furthermore, as madtownwarrior points out, there are a number of things associated with the basketball team that have drawn negative attention to the University.  Some of those aren't their fault nor can it be helped, but they do draw negative attention nevertheless.

I'm not saying that they want to turn MU into SLU, but I am pretty sure this administration would put up with slightly poorer results on the court if it meant cutting down on the negative press associated with the team.  IOW, I think they preferred the Crean era to the Buzz era. 

maybe not the "only" identity, but it certainly is THE major identity.

[bilsu]

Buzz is responsible for the assistants he hires. However, I have to wonder how much or any of the problems can be traced to the assistants. Usually, it is the assistants that make the initial push for a certain recruit. At some point they bring Buzz in to close the deal. How well these assistants vet the recruits is important. For example I really thought TJ Taylor was a Buzz recruit, but it turned out he was recruited by the assistant that took the North Texas job. Taylor lasts two weeks here before he suppossedly does not like how hard Buzz pushes the players and he did not even make it to boot camp. How does a recruit sign and not know what is expected of him. To me the recruiters are not telling him what to expect. Buzz signed Roseboro on the recommendation of one of his assistants and Roseboro also left before the season started. The players involved in improprietaries were also not properly vetted. The current violation that MU self reported appears to have been done by one of the departed assistants. I can only hope that a lot of these problems do not occur now that we have new assistants in charge of recruiting.

[kmwtrucks]

We are going to have misses when you recruit 16-17 year olds.  For the most part I'm happy with the recruits buzz has gotten.   You can only watch them so much, and how many times can they practice with you before the enroll?   I would say he has more hits of 2-3 star player's then most coach's.  Crowder, DJO, Gardner, Butler, Mayo (not one of those guys was rated in the top 150 on Rivals)