[Cracked Sidewalks] - MU & Self-Reporting

[CrackedSidewalksSays]

Written by: noreply@blogger.com (muwarrior92)

Two strange things happened this week in Marquette hoops.  First, the university announced a secondary rules violation.  That has been somewhat of a rarity for MU to be in violation of NCAA rules, at least compared to many other DI power programs.  The type of rules broken have been largely inadvertent, or honest mistake and they took the proper action in reporting them.  Stranger, Marquette, and Larry Williams specifically, have taken some grief for self reporting that secondary violation to the NCAA.  The question is why the grief?  It is not only common practice to do so, but a common sense approach as well.  This is especially true in a world where the NCAA has clearly sent very strong signals the last 6 months that they taking a more focused look at institutional control of their membership.  The reporting to the NCAA and the release of that information to the public is not only common, but has been a precedent at Marquette, long before Larry Williams ever became Athletic Director.

Here are some examples of secondary NCAA violations self-reported by Marquette men's basketball over the years.

In 1985, a Marquette assistant coach gave a ride to a recruit that was not permitted and Hank Raymonds reported the violation to the NCAA.

In 1986, first year coach Bob Dukiet met with Mike Flory during a dead period which resulted in MU self-reporting that violation.  

In 1990, several Marquette basketball players were believed to be in violation of NCAA rules for receiving free parking.  Marquette self reported that secondary rule violation to the NCAA.

In 1999, Tom Crean attended a practice that was off limits to college coaches.  Marquette self-reported the secondary violation to the NCAA.

In 2011, Juan Anderson was suspended by the NCAA after MU self-reported a NCAA violation as a result of Anderson receiving free tickets to a Milwaukee Brewers playoff game.    

Not to be outdone in our very own city, UW-Milwaukee recently self-reported 6 violations as reported by Don Walker in the Journal Sentinel. It seems Don Walker is the one that handles this type of story for the Journal Sentinel and NCAA related issues.

This is standard practice these days, whether it is Ohio State, Florida, Tennessee, Syracuse, UCLA, Texas, Marquette, or anyone else...all have self-reported secondary NCAA violations in the last few months and rightly so. Once it is reported, it will get picked up by the press and published if it involves a major program or team.    It is not worth it for a school to hide something as trivial as some of these secondary violations.  Not when the NCAA is looking for scalps to send a message.  Report it, get it out in the open, move on.


For those that want to go down memory lane, an interesting article about recruiting violations and the recommendations by Al McGuire and Digger Phelps on how to clean it up.

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2012/08/two-strange-things-happened-this-week.html

[4everwarriors]

Cool to read your stuff again. 

[ATL MU Warrior]

How utterly reasonable.  Shocking.

[brewcity77]

Pretty much in complete agreement with this. It shows how much places like WSSP like to stir the pot against Marquette that they gave this any time -- look around the country and even the city and this is clearly a non-story. The only reason it's gotten any play is because there is absolutely nothing else happening in the world of college basketball (nationally) and because some media types like to poke MU with a stick (locally).

[Lennys Tap]

Larry Williams didn't take any grief for reprting the secondary violation to the NCAA. He took grief for reporting it to Don Walker, and at least in Walker's account, not poining out the secondary nature of the violation.

[Jay Bee]

First, the university announced a secondary rules violation. 

Where??

[chapman]

Larry Williams didn't take any grief for reprting the secondary violation to the NCAA. He took grief for reporting it to Don Walker, and at least in Walker's account, not poining out the secondary nature of the violation.

This.  Nobody has ever suggested it wasn't 100% the right and obvious thing to report to the NCAA.  It's only the media reporting, the vague content given to the media, and also the media outlet chosen where I've seen any questioning.

[UticaBusBarn]

Thank you for the facts ... a fact (ahem) which is increasing rare on this and many other boards.

Frankly, people "making-up stuff", or not taking the time to inform themselves, or simply using fractured logic to arrive at illogical conclusions, is unfortunately become the norm and hardly worth the time to even address in a post. However, what is disturbing is the negative hysteria that seems to permeate many bloggers world view. Makes one wonder how some people make it out of bed in the morning.

So, as noted, your facts, Bamama, are most refreshing. But, it is your probability analysis that has made this Warrior fan a believer in your approach and objectivity. You have been spot-on so many times it is rather staggering.

As a post script, is there some source for identifying how many ex-jurnior college players are in the NBA? It is interesting that the last four from Marquette to have a NBA shot are all former junior college players.

Finally, regarding DJO, some of the recent articles state he is a great kid, has a strong work ethic, with fabulous athletic ability, but infer that he does not have great basketball "skills." From this latter criticism one would  conclude he does not have NBA basketball "instincts." One would think that your "value added", when it is all said and done, probably measures these basketball "instincts" (Butler, Crowder, et al.). 

Again, thank you for all your facts and insights.

[Pakuni]

Larry Williams didn't take any grief for reprting the secondary violation to the NCAA. He took grief for reporting it to Don Walker, and at least in Walker's account, not poining out the secondary nature of the violation.

1. How do you know he reported it to Don Walker (as opposed to Walker inquired about it and LW answered the question)?
2. How are LW's actions any different than that of the numerous other universities I cited in another post that publicly confirm incidents of self-reporting?
3. How do you know what he told Don Walker?
4. Outside of an anonymous source cited by Paint Touches, what's your basis for this being a cut-and-dried secondary violation? Maybe LW did or didn't discuss the nature of the incident with Don Walker, but if he didn't, maybe there's a reason.


Once again you've made a boatload of assumptions  - some of which are outright wrong - in order to further your predetermined narrative.

[77ncaachamps]

In 1985, asst coach voight gives a ride to recruit Chris  and another prepster, Buys them hot dogs...then proceeds to state on record: "We're not interested in the kid. He's not that good."

I know he had to say it but wtf?! Lol

[Lennys Tap]

1. How do you know he reported it to Don Walker (as opposed to Walker inquired about it and LW answered the question)?
2. How are LW's actions any different than that of the numerous other universities I cited in another post that publicly confirm incidents of self-reporting?
3. How do you know what he told Don Walker?
4. Outside of an anonymous source cited by Paint Touches, what's your basis for this being a cut-and-dried secondary violation? Maybe LW did or didn't discuss the nature of the incident with Don Walker, but if he didn't, maybe there's a reason.


Once again you've made a boatload of assumptions  - some of which are outright wrong - in order to further your predetermined narrative.

My " boatload of assumptions" are as follows:
1. Marquette committed a secondary violation that they self-reported to the NCAA. Paint Touches, Don Walker in his radio interview on 1250 and several posters on Scout and Scoop are my sources. What's your source that this is wrong?
2. Larry Williams was Don Walker's source for reporting the violation. I assume this because that's what Don Walker says and Larry Williams hasn't denied it. If this was a case of LW merely confirming info Walker had from another source wouldn't Walker have reported it as such?
3. Chicos (author of the above piece) defends LW from those criticizing him for self reporting MU's violation to the NCAA. This is a crock - nobody to my knowledge has said any such thing.

You say some of these are outright wrong. Which ones? And what are your sources?

As for predetermined narratives, you might want to take a peek in the mirror.

[hoops12]

Alright, I will be the first to admit I am wrong with Larry Williams if my sources are wrong concerning this issue. Not only this issue, but the issues that have occurred over the past few months.

If this is a secondary violation (like others Marquette has had in the past - posted above) is looked upon as just that, and we move on, fine. However, if Larry dismisses (which I have heard he will) one of our assistant coaches that "unintentionally" was involved in this minor infraction I will go on to say that what I have heard is all true. Also, if this happens, I believe that Larry is going out of his way to make things very difficult for Buzz and the program.

I, for one, will be more than happy to admit I was wrong if I am. If not we are treading water with an outstanding young coach who may want to go where he isn't put under a microscope by someone that doesn't even have his feet wet yet on campus. Maybe it's because I hate Notre Dame, but I don't like the feeling of what is going on at Marquette right now under his so-called "leadership".

I'm hoping for the best, and we will soon see. Go MU!

[Daniel]

If there is an assistant coach dismissal for a minor violation then we are in serious trouble regarding MU basketball.  Minor infractions are minor - and a coach that just got here?  I would be shocked if this happens, but if it does, it has to be part of a bigger, more sinister, plan.  

Alright, I will be the first to admit I am wrong with Larry Williams if my sources are wrong concerning this issue. Not only this issue, but the issues that have occurred over the past few months.

If this is a secondary violation (like others Marquette has had in the past - posted above) is looked upon as just that, and we move on, fine. However, if Larry dismisses (which I have heard he will) one of our assistant coaches that "unintentionally" was involved in this minor infraction I will go on to say that what I have heard is all true. Also, if this happens, I believe that Larry is going out of his way to make things very difficult for Buzz and the program.

I, for one, will be more than happy to admit I was wrong if I am. If not we are treading water with an outstanding young coach who may want to go where he isn't put under a microscope by someone that doesn't even have his feet wet yet on campus. Maybe it's because I hate Notre Dame, but I don't like the feeling of what is going on at Marquette right now under his so-called "leadership".

I'm hoping for the best, and we will soon see. Go MU!

[Pakuni]

My " boatload of assumptions" are as follows:
1. Marquette committed a secondary violation that they self-reported to the NCAA. Paint Touches, Don Walker in his radio interview on 1250 and several posters on Scout and Scoop are my sources. What's your source that this is wrong?
2. Larry Williams was Don Walker's source for reporting the violation. I assume this because that's what Don Walker says and Larry Williams hasn't denied it. If this was a case of LW merely confirming info Walker had from another source wouldn't Walker have reported it as such?
3. Chicos (author of the above piece) defends LW from those criticizing him for self reporting MU's violation to the NCAA. This is a crock - nobody to my knowledge has said any such thing.

You say some of these are outright wrong. Which ones? And what are your sources?

As for predetermined narratives, you might want to take a peek in the mirror.

No, Don Walker never said LW was his source for this information. He reported that Marquette released a statement in which Larry Williams is quoted. Perhaps you misunderstand, but are you under the impression that LW called Don Walker and relayed this to him? No. Marquette released a prepared statement about this. What prompted them to do so? I'd suggest a reporter's inquiry, but that's just a professionally educated guess.
What is there for LW to deny?
And no, Walker would not have reported that "A tipster told me this and Larry Williams confirmed it through a prepared statement released by Marquette University." That's not how these things work.

What's outright wrong is your implication that LW/Marquette did something wrong, unusual or untoward in making its self-reporting public. Schools do it regularly.
Ohio State's AD  just a few months back publicly confirmed that the school had self-reported 46 violations, many in the football program. He must be out to get Urban Meyer.
Last year, Alabama made public 16 secondary violations within the football program. They're obviously trying to make life difficult for Nick Saban.


Edit: One more point I'll make. It sounds as if this is nothing too serious and will go away relatively quietly. That's good. What's odd/disconcerting is that people seem way more troubled with the how this became public (and via whom) than they are by the fact the basketball program is under investigation for NCAA recruiting violations. Again, the violations don't seem to be all that serious, but for a school (and fan base) that's always prided itself on having a clean program, you would think being under investigation would be the primary cause of concern around here. Guess not.

[cheebs09]

No, Don Walker never said LW was his source for this information. He reported that Marquette released a statement in which Larry Williams is quoted. Perhaps you misunderstand, but are you under the impression that LW called Don Walker and relayed this to him? No. Marquette released a prepared statement about this. What prompted them to do so? I'd suggest a reporter's inquiry, but that's just a professionally educated guess.
What is there for LW to deny?
And no, Walker would not have reported that "A tipster told me this and Larry Williams confirmed it through a prepared statement released by Marquette University." That's not how these things work.

What's outright wrong is your implication that LW/Marquette did something wrong, unusual or untoward in making its self-reporting public. Schools do it regularly.
Ohio State's AD  just a few months back publicly confirmed that the school had self-reported 46 violations, many in the football program. He must be out to get Urban Meyer.
Last year, Alabama made public 16 secondary violations within the football program. They're obviously trying to make life difficult for Nick Saban.

The important thing is that they let the public know that it was minor. If Larry came out and said in the statement that this was minor, no one is bashing him. He's let this go a few days now. If we didn't have people online or Don Walker on the radio once, we'd still have no clue the severity. Larry's opened this up for much more speculation. Crean had a minor violation not long ago, but it was said to be minor right away. So there was no wild speculation.

[wadesworld]

The important thing is that they let the public know that it was minor. If Larry came out and said in the statement that this was minor, no one is bashing him. He's let this go a few days now. If we didn't have people online or Don Walker on the radio once, we'd still have no clue the severity. Larry's opened this up for much more speculation. Crean had a minor violation not long ago, but it was said to be minor right away. So there was no wild speculation.

Why does Larry Williams owe the general public anything?  It is not Larry Williams's decision to deem the violation minor, it is the NCAA's, and it is still under investigation.  If what I have heard is true and it is just a recruit receiving an article of clothing then it should be found to be minor, but what do we know?  Maybe there is a major violation that the NCAA is looking into and nobody else knows about.  You don't give details of an investigation until the investigation is done.  Larry is doing his job.

[GOO]

Why does Larry Williams owe the general public anything?  It is not Larry Williams's decision to deem the violation minor, it is the NCAA's, and it is still under investigation.  If what I have heard is true and it is just a recruit receiving an article of clothing then it should be found to be minor, but what do we know?  Maybe there is a major violation that the NCAA is looking into and nobody else knows about.  You don't give details of an investigation until the investigation is done.  Larry is doing his job.

If it is minor you report it as such and make sure everone knows it is minor and gets reported as such  To do otherwise results in a lot of bad publicity, as we've seen. Basic PR stuff.  Bad publicity can't be undone, we should all know that by now given the last two years.

[wadesworld]

If it is minor you report it as such and make sure everone knows it is minor and gets reported as such  To do otherwise results in a lot of bad publicity, as we've seen. Basic PR stuff.  Bad publicity can't be undone, we should all know that by now given the last two years.

It can't be undone?  So because Larry Williams didn't give details of an ongoing investigation people now look at Marquette as cheaters even though when the investigation is complete it will come out that an article of clothing was given to a recruit and there are no punishments?  Nobody is looking at Marquette in the same light as SMU football because Larry Williams did not give details into an ongoing NCAA investigation, and nobody will after the details are released with the finish of the investigation.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Do we honestly believe the NCAA is "conducting an on-going investigation" into a self-reported violation because an assistant gave a kid a clean shirt?  Let's get real here and just admit the NCAA is logging this and MU will be docked a recruiting day.  If the NCAA is expending any investigative resources on an alleged secondary violation other than writing up a report, no wonder they cannot get anything on Cal.  This is over, except for the show.

[wadesworld]

Do we honestly believe the NCAA is "conducting an on-going investigation" into a self-reported violation because an assistant gave a kid a clean shirt?  Let's get real here and just admit the NCAA is logging this and MU will be docked a recruiting day.  If the NCAA is expending any investigative resources on an alleged secondary violation other than writing up a report, no wonder they cannot get anything on Cal.  This is over, except for the show.

So you think a school self-reports a minor violation and they just take it at its word, not look into whether there is more to it tan just 1 t-shirt?  OK.

[lab_warrior]

My " boatload of assumptions" are as follows:
1. Marquette committed a secondary violation that they self-reported to the NCAA. Paint Touches, Don Walker in his radio interview on 1250 and several posters on Scout and Scoop are my sources. What's your source that this is wrong?
2. Larry Williams was Don Walker's source for reporting the violation. I assume this because that's what Don Walker says and Larry Williams hasn't denied it. If this was a case of LW merely confirming info Walker had from another source wouldn't Walker have reported it as such?
3. Chicos (author of the above piece) defends LW from those criticizing him for self reporting MU's violation to the NCAA. This is a crock - nobody to my knowledge has said any such thing.

You say some of these are outright wrong. Which ones? And what are your sources?

As for predetermined narratives, you might want to take a peek in the mirror.

My "DERP DERP HERP DERP" are as follows:
1. Derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp. derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp!  PROVE ME WRONG!.
2. Derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp
derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp PROVE ME WRONG!
3. derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp derp derp derp herp derp NOBODY HAS PROVEN ME WRONG YET!

HERPY DERP DERP DERP HERP DERP!   PROVE ME WRONG!

I hate Larry Williams, and I'm a bitter human being, and I won't let facts get in the way of my misguided conspiracy theory that he's out to destroy Marquette basketball. 


FIXED!

Alright, I will be the first to admit I am wrong with Larry Williams if my sources are wrong concerning this issue. Not only this issue, but the issues that have occurred over the past few months.

If this is a secondary violation (like others Marquette has had in the past - posted above) is looked upon as just that, and we move on, fine. However, if Larry dismisses (which I have heard he will) one of our assistant coaches that "unintentionally" was involved in this minor infraction I will go on to say that what I have heard is all true. Also, if this happens, I believe that Larry is going out of his way to make things very difficult for Buzz and the program.

I, for one, will be more than happy to admit I was wrong if I am. If not we are treading water with an outstanding young coach who may want to go where he isn't put under a microscope by someone that doesn't even have his feet wet yet on campus. Maybe it's because I hate Notre Dame, but I don't like the feeling of what is going on at Marquette right now under his so-called "leadership".

I'm hoping for the best, and we will soon see. Go MU!

Assume assume assume, then act indignant that my assumptions are TOTALLY TRUE.
Thanks, Brick Tamland.  You can stop talking now.   Well, at least let us know how the weather is in the "middle east."  Although the rest of your post is high comedy, guffaw-inducing, bulls***, I will  agree with you on one point-- GO MU! That, you got correct. 
 

[Dr. Blackheart]

So you think a school self-reports a minor violation and they just take it at its word, not look into whether there is more to it tan just 1 t-shirt?  OK.

With hundreds of D1 through D3 violations filed in a year, do you honestly believe the NCAA opens a detailed investigation for a t-shirt? OK  

The process is the Director of Compliance for MU files a self-report with a proposed penalty with the NCAA, and then it is either agreed to or not or they request more information.  If it goes beyond that, it isn't secondary.  The NCAA relies on schools to self-police.  They don't have the resources otherwise.

When Crean got his secondary violation last year for thinking that there was one more day in the recruiting window when he visited a recruit at his hs, he reported it and the self-imposed penalty was announced at the same time...and IU was still on major probation at the time.

[GGGG]

The NCAA is "investigating" this like they investigate all violations of this nature.  They receive the report....catalog it...and figure out if they need to push it up the chain.  There isn't a bevy of NCAA investigators going through the files at MU right now or anything.

[Jay Bee]

With Crean/Gary Harris & Big Ten.. did it even go to NCAA? 

I think Big Ten schools reports to the conference.  In certain circumstances it goes to the NCAA.  The conference literally averages a couple hundred secondaries every year.

Anyway, WHERE IS THE RELEASE?

[real chili 83]

I think we need to take this seriously.  I hear that a special investigator, whose cover name is Rob, is holding summit with two other investigators over this matter.

Hiroshima will seem like a picnic after agent Rob finishes with Buzz.  

Seriously, a t-shirt?  All cotton? Poly-blend?  Sleeveless?