Ken Pom Loves the Ox

[Dr. Blackheart]

Returning players that were better than average offensively last year (100).

Gardner - 118
Jamil - 104

+Jake Thomas (sitting out but returning)=110

[Lennys Tap]

Man, I hope you are right.

To me, he seems like a lefty specialist in baseball. His numbers look great, but if you use him a ton, his efficiency dwindles and his flaws are exposed.

I expect gardner to have a good year, and he's the best 1/2 court scorer they have.

But, I don't know if I can project him to be MU's best player.

I think this was a fair concern after Ox's freshman year, but he was used much more last year and his efficiency remained high. He's not merely the best 1/2 court scorer we have. He's our best offensive rebounder, has great hands and is a good passer. I think it would be more accurate to say he's the best 1/2 court offensive player on the team, not just the best scorer.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think this was a fair concern after Ox's freshman year, but he was used much more last year and his efficiency remained high. He's not merely the best 1/2 court scorer we have. He's our best offensive rebounder, has great hands and is a good passer. I think it would be more accurate to say he's the best 1/2 court offensive player on the team, not just the best scorer.

He might turn into a good passer someday, but right now he's a black hole. When he gets the ball on the block, it's going up. Now, that's not a bad thing because he's very good, but he's not exactly Bill Walton running the high post.

With this said, you're still probably right. Not many guys on this team are good 1/2 court offensive players (yet).

[GGGG]

NBA centers are the better athletes. MU has trouble recruiting non-atheltic centers.

Why would we want to recruit non-athletic centers???

[bilsu]

Why would we want to recruit non-athletic centers???

The athletic ones go to select programs, which means we have to settle for the next tier. The problem is that we are not getting them either.

[tower912]

And yet, somehow, Buzz muddles through.    I predict we will see more recruits like McKay rather than traditional 5's as time goes on.    And finally,'getting a bit picky, even for you, aren't you, Bilsu?    In two years, we will have Otule(?), DG, Jamil, Steve Taylor, and now McKay.   Somehow, this isn't enough?   Shaq, Alonzo, Timmy, Dwight, any big good enough to be a one-and-done, ain't walking through that door.   If this all means that we have to endure a thin, skilled 6'10 guy manning the 5 in 3 years, I can still live with it.   

[Room510]

 Ox is a great passer out of the double team.  Buzz even commented on his radio show that if you double team him - it's a basket.

[GGGG]

The athletic ones go to select programs, which means we have to settle for the next tier. The problem is that we are not getting them either.

Who aren't we getting?  We are going to have our tallest team in quite a while here next year.

[strotty]

Who aren't we getting?  We are going to have our tallest team in quite a while here next year.

Carson Desrosiers and DaShonte Riley.

[bilsu]

Carson Desrosiers and DaShonte Riley.

The center that will be a freshmen at Michigan

[GGGG]

Mitch McGary....who is hardly next-tier or unathletic.  And a Beilein team is going to be out and running more than Marquette even.

Here is his autobio on his game:

http://boxofmess.com/2011/01/07/brewster-academys-12-mitch-mcgary-journal-entry/

"I'm not really a post player. I'm more of a face up guy and not back to the basket. I like getting down open court and running instead of getting stuck on the block."

Does this sound like a guy who isn't going to come to Marquette because Buzz will make him hedge screens on defense??

[bilsu]

Mitch McGary....who is hardly next-tier or unathletic.  And a Beilein team is going to be out and running more than Marquette even.

Here is his autobio on his game:

http://boxofmess.com/2011/01/07/brewster-academys-12-mitch-mcgary-journal-entry/

"I'm not really a post player. I'm more of a face up guy and not back to the basket. I like getting down open court and running instead of getting stuck on the block."

Does this sound like a guy who isn't going to come to Marquette because Buzz will make him hedge screens on defense??

Probably not, but we did not get him and I believe we were on him early.

[GGGG]

But you specifically said this:

"I think one of the reasons we have trouble recruiting true centers is that they look at how MU centers play. Most big men probably rather stay under the basket than run around the floor."

And then I said...like who?

And you brought up him....but he clearly doesn't want to stay under the basket.

So, again, who have we lost recruiting wise because Buzz makes his centers run around the floor hedging screens instead of parking themselves under the basket?

[mu03eng]

But you specifically said this:

"I think one of the reasons we have trouble recruiting true centers is that they look at how MU centers play. Most big men probably rather stay under the basket than run around the floor."

And then I said...like who?

And you brought up him....but he clearly doesn't want to stay under the basket.

So, again, who have we lost recruiting wise because Buzz makes his centers run around the floor hedging screens instead of parking themselves under the basket?

Take this another step.  Name 5 centers in the NCAA last year that didn't hedge.  I'll even give you one, Anthony Davis, can you name 4 other centers that don't hedge or out right switch these days?  Even Becky hedges.

[GGGG]

Take this another step.  Name 5 centers in the NCAA last year that didn't hedge.  I'll even give you one, Anthony Davis, can you name 4 other centers that don't hedge or out right switch these days?  Even Becky hedges.

Fab Melo didn't either.  But yeah, it is a relatively common practice at all levels of basketball to hedge a screen. 

[Lennys Tap]

Fab Melo didn't either.  But yeah, it is a relatively common practice at all levels of basketball to hedge a screen. 

Not fair. Centers in a 2-3 zone would never hedge.

[bilsu]

How often do you see other teams centers chasing guards as much as MU's centers do?

[GGGG]

How often do you see other teams centers chasing guards as much as MU's centers do?

I don't see them "chasing guards."  I see them hedging screens...and that oftentimes can result in a bad switch.  But it doesn't happen all that often.

[mu03eng]

How often do you see other teams centers chasing guards as much as MU's centers do?

Watch the NBA, all the best teams run the pick and roll on office, and the defense either switches or hedges.  Being able to hedge a screen is critical in the NBA so the fact that MU does it certainly shouldn't be a negative for a center.

The only reason to not hedge a center is if you have a shot blocking center with quick lateral movement.  There are like 3 in the NCAA in any given year.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

My guess is that Buzz's bootcamp is far tougher than hedging screens.

If a player doesn't choose MU because of the way centers defend screens, then MU is probably better off letting that player look elsewhere.

[Dawson Rental]

Gotta recruits better 5's than Gardner to get the program to the next level.

If MU consistently had centers of Gardner's talent, MU would be at the next level.  Recruiting all the other positions would fall nicely into place with a Gardner quality big man around all the time.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Both Gardner and Otule are better than any big we've had at MU since Robert Jackson and before that since Big Mac and Amal McCaskill.  So I think we are lucky to have them.

But, to be realistic, they are not program changing big men nor are they truly elite.  They are adequate for a Top 15-20 level team.  We need to recruit better at this position if we are ever going to get over the hump and be a truly elite program. 

This is not a dig at them, although I suppose it sounds like one. 

[4everwarriors]

Murray, stick to bringin' the donuts.

[ringout]

Murray, stick to bringin' the donuts.

Is this a line from the Odd Couple?

[mu03eng]

Both Gardner and Otule are better than any big we've had at MU since Robert Jackson and before that since Big Mac and Amal McCaskill.  So I think we are lucky to have them.

But, to be realistic, they are not program changing big men nor are they truly elite.  They are adequate for a Top 15-20 level team.  We need to recruit better at this position if we are ever going to get over the hump and be a truly elite program. 

This is not a dig at them, although I suppose it sounds like one. 

Like Miles Plumlee at Duke??  Duke is an elite program and I can't remember them ever having a center of the type the folks here are describing.  If we are consistently at top 15 program that's elite enough for me.  Besides everyone seems to fantasize about the aircraft carrier center, I don't think those players exist much any more plus they absolutely don't fit in Buzz's system.