ND "Fighting Sioux"

[MUFC9295]

By now you've all seen the North Dakota voters are in favor of moving on from "Fighting Sioux."  I do not want to start a name thread, but I want to know how North Dakota and Florida State (only other I can think of) are impacted by having Native American nicknames and mascots?  Is is just the inability to host NCAA events?   And is that something that is pressure enough to get an institution to move for a name change?  If Marquette just said "No, we're keeping Warriors." then what would be the consequences (opinions aside)?

[Jay Bee]

I do not want to start a name thread

I do not want to reply in this thread.

If Marquette just said "No, we're keeping Warriors." then what would be the consequences (opinions aside)?

We'd all go to hell.

[brewcity77]

FSU is a special case because they have permission from and the blessing of the Seminole tribe. Their mascot is a member of the tribe as well.

We could easily go back to Warriors if we went the Golden State route and disassociated the Warrior mascot from any NA connections. But it won't happen.

[MUFC9295]

Let's make sure my question is clear:  Ignoring the social policy/responsibility issues and reputational risks, does having a Native American nickname AND/OR mascot necessarily subject an institution to penalties of any sort?  Is there any difference if one is a public institution?

I tried to search old posts, but try putting in "warrior" or "mascot" or "name change" and sifting through all the nonsense for an answer.

[MerrittsMustache]

Several years ago, Native American imagery and mascots were banned from NCAA postseason events. I'm not sure where that stands now though.

There are also some schools (Iowa, for example - lots of hypocrisy there) that won't schedule games against teams with Native American nicknames (though Iowa will play Illinois and I'm pretty sure they'd play, say, Florida State in a big-money bowl game).

[brewcity77]

Let's make sure my question is clear:  Ignoring the social policy/responsibility issues and reputational risks, does having a Native American nickname AND/OR mascot necessarily subject an institution to penalties of any sort?  Is there any difference if one is a public institution?

It does if there is a group that has an issue. So in North Dakota, where the Sioux tribe (like the voting populace) is somewhat divided on the issue of the name, the name is disallowed because there are Sioux that are offended. In Florida, the Seminoles are fine because of the permission granted them by the Seminole tribe.

Illinois is a different sort of case. Most of the controversy was over Chief Illiniwek, their mascot that upset some of the Sioux and others in the PC crowd. However, the "Fighting Illini" nickname predated the Chief Illiniwek mascot, who showed up in 1926. They claimed that the name was originally chosen to honor Illinois residents that served and died in World War I (thus "Fighting Illini"). When they retired Chief Illiniwek, the NCAA backed off, accepting the WWI excuse.

The Utah Utes and Central Michigan Chippewas both have permission from the respective tribes, similar to FSU. Not sure about the San Diego State Aztecs or others.

[Tulsa Warrior]

http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/nickname/willie_wampum

http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/nickname/warriors

[humanlung]

Since I was at MU when the idea of changing the Warrior logo started (and, yes, the idea was originally sold to us as a change in the image only), I have wondered one thing.  Since when did the word "warrior" become associated ONLY with Indian images?

Last time I checked, there were lots of historic warriors that we could use.  Just sayin'.

[LAMUfan]

The Utah Utes and Central Michigan Chippewas both have permission from the respective tribes, similar to FSU. Not sure about the San Diego State Aztecs or others.
[/quote]
wouldn't using Aztecs be more like using spartans then the other schools we are discussing?

[brewcity77]

wouldn't using Aztecs be more like using spartans then the other schools we are discussing?

I don't know. Monty Montezuma seems just as offensive as Illiniwek or Willie Wampum. And there was objection from an on-campus organization of NA students. Don't know why they've been exempted from criticism.

[TallTitan34]

We could easily go back to Warriors if we went the Golden State route and disassociated the Warrior mascot from any NA connections. But it won't happen.

[real chili 83]

Did Notre Dame get permission from Dublin?

[Benny B]

Let's make sure my question is clear:  Ignoring the social policy/responsibility issues and reputational risks, does having a Native American nickname AND/OR mascot necessarily subject an institution to penalties of any sort?  Is there any difference if one is a public institution?

The answers to your questions are "maybe" and "no."  As others have said, there are exceptions to the rule so long as you have from the potential "offendees."

However, those are the general rules that apply to everyone.  If there is truth to the theory that the Warrior nickname was "bribed" into retirement at Marquette, then MU might have additional "contractual" obligations or penalties, which - obviously - would not be applicable to other institutions and also which would make the answer to your first question a definite "yes" in MU's case.

Also... the State of Wisconsin has a statute on the books which basically allows anyone who lives in a school district to file a complaint about a NA nickname/mascot used by their school which typically results in a court order to change the name/mascot, but I believe it only applies to public elementary and secondary schools.

[77ncaachamps]

We could easily go back to Warriors if we went the Golden State route and disassociated the Warrior mascot from any NA connections. But it won't happen.

Learn from the past as you don't want to go there like this:



RIDICULOUS.

[brewcity77]

Learn from the past as you don't want to go there like this:



RIDICULOUS.

Is that Marquette's Blueman?

[🏀]

Is that Marquette's Blueman?

Nah, Blueman's been on TV way more than that guy.

[forgetful]

Nah, Blueman's been on TV way more than that guy.

Yeah, he's Blueman's less popular cousin blueboy. 

[Henry Sugar]

Help me, Obi Wan.  You're my only hope.

[real chili 83]

Learn from the past as you don't want to go there like this:



RIDICULOUS.

Better then the golden chicken.  We might as well be Iowa.

  Go WARRIORS.  Any questions?

[GGGG]

The Big Sky was threatening to revoke membership for North Dakota had they had voted this way.  From a conference perspective it makes sense.  They don't want a member that can no longer host NCAA events.

[WarriorHal]

By Associated Press, Published: June 13

STANDING ROCK INDIAN RESERVATION, N.D. — As North Dakota residents resoundingly decided to scrap their flagship university's Fighting Sioux nickname, the response was far murkier in Sioux County — home to a tribe that had gone decades without staking a clear position on the divisive question.

Voters statewide turned out in numbers not seen in a primary election for more than five decades, according to unofficial results, yet most members of the Standing Rock tribe took a pass. Sioux County, where much of the reservation is based, voted 184-159 to retire the University of North Dakota's nickname and Indian head logo.

That represented just 8 percent of county residents, 84 percent of whom are American Indians.

"By and large most people either don't care or support the name," Lyle Antelope, a member of the Standing Rock Sioux Indian Reservation, said Wednesday.

The issue, which has divided the state for decades, boiled over seven years ago when UND was placed on a list of schools with American Indian nicknames that the NCAA deemed hostile and abusive. Those colleges were told to dump the names or risk sanctions against their athletic teams.

Some schools quickly removed their American Indian-themed nicknames when faced with NCAA pressure, and others such as Florida State survived the edict by getting approval from namesake tribes.

There was no such consensus in North Dakota. The Spirit Lake tribe approved the nickname in 2010, but the other tribe— Standing Rock — never took a vote. That's why Tuesday's election was being closely watched in Sioux County as the first — and possibly only — opportunity for members of that tribe to speak in unison.

Walter Twinn, 69, who still speaks his native Dakota language, said there are only a handful of people on the reservation strongly opposed to the name. He cited a 1969 pipe ceremony held on the UND campus when a delegation from Standing Rock and at least one representative from Spirit Lake reportedly bestowed to the university permanent rights to use the nickname.

"UND has helped a lot of Indian students," Twinn said. "It should stay."

The Standing Rock reservation straddles the North and South Dakota border and is home to about 9,000 people, more than half of whom live in North Dakota. Elections for tribal chairman typically draw up to 2,000 voters.

Lawrence Miller, an employee at the tribe's casino, said it makes little sense to change the name. However, he acknowledges that he didn't vote.

"What are they going to call themselves, the Holsteins? Or the Cow Milkers?" Miller said.

Bubba Standing Bear, who spent Wednesday herding cows on horseback, said he would have approved the measure had he been old enough to vote.

"To me it really doesn't matter. It's just a name," he said. "I didn't think it was disrespectful. I know a lot of the old people might not like it but I think it is respectful."

Erich Longie, an enrolled member of the Spirit Lake tribe who has been an outspoken critic against the nickname, said UND T-shirts and other giveaways induced about two-thirds of 1,100 members of that tribe to endorse keeping the name in 2009. He said only 70 people on the Spirit Lake reservation voted Tuesday.

"They didn't have all the free stuff to pass out," Longie said. "It shows you how much people cared about the vote."

The state Board of Higher Education is expected to vote Thursday at its meeting in Fargo on whether to direct UND to resume efforts to retire the nickname. The board in February told UND to resume using the moniker after petitions were approved for Tuesday's ballot measure.

Even if it does push the school to retire the name, the saga may not be over. A group is collecting signatures for another ballot measure — possibly as early as November — that would make the Fighting Sioux name an official part of the state constitution.

Tim O'Keefe, the UND Alumni Association and Foundation executive vice president and CEO, expressed hope in a statement Wednesday that the nickname backers would honor the election results and let the rebuilding begin.

"Too many relationships have been tested by the debate, and we now need to come together to advance the tremendous growth and potential of UND as a world-class institution," O'Keefe said.

___

Kolpack reported from Fargo, N.D.

[dgies9156]

Better then the golden chicken.  We might as well be Iowa.

  Go WARRIORS.  Any questions?

Golden Chicken my backside. That's a FURRY BIRD!!!!!!!!

I think the Biology Department in the College of Arts and Science can confirm that birds have FEATHERS. Mammals have fur.

If you're going to dress someone up in an Golden Eagle costume, make sure the darn thing has feathers. That's the fastest way I know to get the Warriors back.

P.S. -- Thank you Father DiUllio. The most disagreeable MU leader ever. He's the guy that gave us the furry birds and was so obnoxious that he angered the Common Council so much he couldn't get Wisconsin Avenue closed.

[TallTitan34]

Golden Chicken my backside. That's a FURRY BIRD!!!!!!!!

I think the Biology Department in the College of Arts and Science can confirm that birds have FEATHERS. Mammals have fur.

If you're going to dress someone up in an Golden Eagle costume, make sure the darn thing has feathers. That's the fastest way I know to get the Warriors back.

P.S. -- Thank you Father DiUllio. The most disagreeable MU leader ever. He's the guy that gave us the furry birds and was so obnoxious that he angered the Common Council so much he couldn't get Wisconsin Avenue closed.

How exactly does one wash a suit made of feathers?

[dgies9156]

How exactly does one wash a suit made of feathers?

I think that's an Engineering Department problem, or maybe a chemistry department problem.

Wash... what college student washes anything they don't HAVE to????

Go Furry Birds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Benny B]

Bubba Standing Bear sounds like a smart kid.  UND better give him a scholarship.  Not only is he probably the brightest person named "Bubba" in the entire world, he's also got the last name to strike fear into the hearts of those who oppose his will... UND is best to keep him on their side.


November 12, 2015 (WASHINGTON D.C.) - Lawyers for the American Society of Socialized Hippies and Treehuggers (ASSHAT) appeared today in front of the Supreme Court asking for a decision on the ASSHAT-backed law to criminalize all Native American references in society.  Bubba Standing Bear, chief counsel for the opposition, presented his oral argument before the court in what is being considered the most persuasive argument in American history. Without so much as allowing ASSHAT lawyers to speak, the Supreme Court closed the hearing and issued a unanimous decision not only striking down the ASSHAT law but also immediately banishing all ASSHAT members to Greenland.  ASSHAT representatives expressed dismay regarding the court decision but appeared upbeat that they were being sent to a "green" land.

The now-immortal Ruth Bader Ginsburg - in her first decision since becoming half-robot - wrote for the majority.