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Author Topic: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP  (Read 17871 times)

ChicosBailBonds

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Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« on: June 21, 2007, 01:17:12 PM »
Nothing to see here....move along...giving money certainly wouldn't overtly or in the back of their minds cause them to promote the very candidates and causes they are giving their hard earned money to.  Nope, that wouldn't happen.  Super human professionals.   ;)


"The pattern of donations, with nearly nine out of 10 giving to Democratic candidates and causes, appears to confirm a leftward tilt in newsrooms...”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19113485
« Last Edit: June 21, 2007, 01:27:29 PM by ChicosBailBonds »

nathanziarek

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2007, 02:12:04 PM »
Three Questions:

1) Why start a new thread when we are already discussing this in another one (which I haven't finished digesting yet, but still promise I will finish)?

2) Do you really believe it to be impossible for someone to report objectively about something they do not personally take stock in? I ask this with complete sincerity.

3) I wonder if this sort of study has ever been done news organization wide? Except for the big names, reporters are rarely in charge of what they report.

n
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nathanziarek

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2007, 02:33:24 PM »
Now that I've taken the time to read the article, I don't see it nearly as black and white as your disingenuous title states. So much for honest discourse. It is all about sensationalism, right?

 - Can we look at the 144 reporters in this sample as representative of what everyone else *might* do (but haven't)? At .1% of the reporters in the country, that's a pretty small sample size.

 - Do we care at all that some of these contributions most definitely came from reporters that have nothing to do with political reporting?

...and the nail i the coffin for me: Are we at all concerned that the liberal media is producing pieces about possible liberal bias in newsrooms? Seems like self-destructive behavior to me.
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StillAWarrior

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2007, 02:42:58 PM »
2) Do you really believe it to be impossible for someone to report objectively about something they do not personally take stock in? I ask this with complete sincerity.

I guess I'll jump in again because this is the same issue that I raised in the other thread.

No, I don't think it's impossible for someone to report objectively.  But, I do think it is impossible for everyone to report objectively.  And, when liberals outnumber conservatives 9:1 (or 4:1 in other studies that have been cited, and lots of ratios in between), the people who are unable to control their bias will naturally create the appearance of bias.  If there are nine left-biased reporters for every one right-biased reporter, I don't think it is surprising that there would be a perceptible over all bias in reporting.

A couple questions for you (like yours, asked with sincerity):

1)  Do you believe all reporters are able to put their biases aside when doing their job?

2)  If not, do you think liberal reporters are inherently more capable of putting their biases aside than conservative reporters?


If there is no inherent difference in the ability of conservative and liberal reporters (or other media professionals) to control their bias, it seems perfectly reasonable to think that the sheer number of liberals in the media, as compared to conservatives, would necessarily result in some bias.  I think we can quibble about the extent of the bias if you want, but if the individual reporters are truly overwhelmingly liberal (as many studies and self-identification seem to support), then the only way the media could be unbiased is if either all the professionals are able to remain completely objective or if liberals are somehow more capable of objectivity than conservatives.  I don't think either is likely.  I think a certain percentage of reporters from both sides of the political spectrum are going to be biased, and I don't think the percentage is likely to differ all that much based upon ideology.  If anything, my experience in other contexts would suggest that the majority is more likely to reveal its bias because there is safety in numbers, but I have no data to support that.
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nathanziarek

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2007, 03:04:21 PM »
Awesome! A real discussion!

1) Absolutely not. I would expect there to be some bias from some people sometimes. I don't know how to quantify it, but yes, there will be bias.

2) No. Everyone would have the same trouble maintaining equality with 1 big caveat (that Chico's article mentions). A liberal reporter has to fight the notion (real or make-believe) that the media is liberal and *might* try harder to work a conservative angle into his piece, even if it doesn't have any place there. A conservative reporter wouldn't have that hanging over his head.

Just for the sake of argument, I've not finished the articles Chico's posted, but I do not buy into the 4:1 theory, especially if it was arrived at the same way the 9:1 was.

Once again, would a liberal media company rat itself out for being liberal or would it just hide those findings? What about every other finding Chico's pointed to? How are those articles making their way past the liberal editors through the pens of liberal reporters? I'm being a little sarcastic, but not completely...

n
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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2007, 03:14:41 PM »
Three Questions:

1) Why start a new thread when we are already discussing this in another one (which I haven't finished digesting yet, but still promise I will finish)?

2) Do you really believe it to be impossible for someone to report objectively about something they do not personally take stock in? I ask this with complete sincerity.

3) I wonder if this sort of study has ever been done news organization wide? Except for the big names, reporters are rarely in charge of what they report.

n

1)  Donations had nothing to do with the other thread

2)  Do I think it's impossible...no, not impossible.  Do I value when reporters, producers, etc say that they can't be objective...yes.  Do I think these people are human...yes.  Do I think if you sink $2500 into a cause (liberal or conservative) via donation are you going to try to angle your stories to promote that cause...yes.  Do I think liberals defend the media more than conservatives....yes...by a mile.  I always ask why to that last question.   ;)

Pakuni

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2007, 04:06:47 PM »
2)  Do I think it's impossible...no, not impossible.  Do I value when reporters, producers, etc say that they can't be objective...yes.  Do I think these people are human...yes.  Do I think if you sink $2500 into a cause (liberal or conservative) via donation are you going to try to angle your stories to promote that cause...yes.  Do I think liberals defend the media more than conservatives....yes...by a mile.  I always ask why to that last question.   ;)

Once again, I ask, why do you believe a human being cannot act professionally?
When did did professionalism become a trait only possessed by superheroes?

Regarding the story linked above, one little factoid Chico's failed to mention is that many, if not most, of the journalists on that list do not cover politics. Which leads me to ask, "So what?"

I mean who cares that the Chicago Tribune's classical music critic gave $200 to the DNC in 2004. Does that mean he writes liberally biased reviews of the latest Chicago Symphony Orchestra's performances?
Is it really all that troubling that a Boston Globe sports statistician gave money to Howard Dean?
Or that a South Florida Sun-Sentinel sports columnist donated money to the Kerry campaign? Does he bash Dwyane Wade for his conservative pro-family lifestyle because of this?

Anyone involved in covering politics  - and most of the reporters listed here do not - should not be contributing to political causes or taking any other actions that publicize their personal leanings (i.e. planting campaign signs, voting in primaries, etc.) But if you're not involved in covering politics, then who cares? Why is it relevant whether a TV critic gives money to some political cause?

Also, it's worth noting that they found a whopping 144 donors at 91 news organizations. That's hardly a telling sample of the media in general, wouldn't you agree? Most those media organizations employee dozens, if not hundreds, in their editorial departments. That they uncovered 144 donors out out a group of thousands is kind of insignificant, don't you think? In fact, it actually shows that the vast majority of media members don't engage in such behavior. And, again, of those who do, a large portion don't cover politics.

Edit: FYI, your subject heading is kind of misleading. The majority of donors identified in that study are not reporters.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2007, 05:50:17 PM by Pakuni »

nathanziarek

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2007, 04:29:41 PM »
(This thread is not about donations, it is about reporter bias...just like the other thread.)

I don't think I am defending the media. Biased or not, it is mostly worthless. When's the last hard hitting news segment you saw? When is the last time the media took the time to examine and break down an issue for us ordinary folk that don't have time to investigate ourselves?

What I am fighting is this idea that conservatives are somehow persecuted by the mainstream media and have to continually lash out.

n
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mviale

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2007, 05:32:51 PM »
Why do republicans rule the spoken word or radio waves and democrats rule the written press and online blogs?

You heard it here first. Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year.
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spiral97

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2007, 05:44:08 PM »
cuz you don't have to have smarts to look good on tv or good looks to appear smart in print.
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Murffieus

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2007, 07:17:07 PM »
144 media members polled may not be an adequate size----but 90% is 90%----and furthermore very consistent with every other poll of this type I've seen over the past 30 years or so. Every poll I've seen idenitfies national media people as 85-90% liberal!

Pakuni

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2007, 07:30:36 PM »
144 media members polled may not be an adequate size----but 90% is 90%----and furthermore very consistent with every other poll of this type I've seen over the past 30 years or so. Every poll I've seen idenitfies national media people as 85-90% liberal!

It wasn't a poll, Murff.
MSNBC researched campaign disclosure files searching for media members who donated to campaigns and came up with 144 of them.
And which poll identifies 85-90 percent of media people as liberal?

Murffieus

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2007, 08:07:29 PM »
A poll is a sampling----this was a "sampling" I suppose we can split hairs.

Over the years, I have seen such samplings (polls or otherwise) and as I say they consisrently show members of the media as 85-90% liberal-----shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.


ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2007, 08:09:17 PM »
I asked a rather simple question that no one answered....why SHOULDN'T I believe or take the word of Walter Kronkite, Bernard Goldberg, producers from CBS, ABC, CNN, Peter Jennings, Andy Rooney, why shouldn't I believe the very people doing the reporting or putting the reporting together that claim a bias?

Seems entirely straight forward to me.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2007, 08:11:30 PM »
A poll is a sampling----this was a "sampling" I suppose we can split hairs.

Over the years, I have seen such samplings (polls or otherwise) and as I say they consisrently show members of the media as 85-90% liberal-----shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.



One poll that is out right now...Congressional Approval at 14%....lowest ever for Gallup since they started taking that poll. 

Americans are damn pissed right now, that is for sure.  Good!!  I can think of 30 GOP Senators and about 42 Donkeys that should be cleaned out right now...unfortunately only about 25 of those 72 are up for election.  But all of the reps are up and there are several hundred that should be run out of town.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2007, 08:42:27 PM »
Why do republicans rule the spoken word or radio waves and democrats rule the written press and online blogs?



Simple, because it's market driven.  Talk radio lives on one thing...advertisers.  If they don't perform with ratings, they go bye bye.  Newspaper print and news divisions also operate on advertisers, but they also aren't going away if ratings tank.  There will a CBS News each night whether or not they have a 20 rating or a 5 rating.

Progressive radio has died many times over and will continue to die.  The ratings stink because there are already liberal outlets espousing their views...mainly CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, etc.

Conservative radio flourishes because where else are conservatives going to hear their point of view on things?  From the mainstream press?  Please.  This is why Fox and talk radio do so well becuase they are the only two modes that provide another point of view.

Market economics...simple.

mu03eng

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2007, 08:59:46 AM »
I think we will use Einstien here, its all relative.

Since I'm an engineer I'm going to throw out some numbers to prove the point.


Lets imagine a scare -5 -4 -3 -2 -1  0  1  2  3  4  5, with -5 being far left( sorry someone had to be negative ;)) and 5 being far right.

Now lets assume that Chico's is right and the majority of media is somewhat liberal in their reporting.  We will give them a -2.

Now Chico's is maybe a 3 or a 4 on the scale, while someone like Nathan is a -3 or a -2.  A completely unbiased person (0) might report the media as being slightly liberal.  Chico's would observe it to be very liberal with a difference of 5 on the scale.  Nathan would most likely regard is as even handed.


Basically I am trying to explain that it is a double bias......potential media bias, plus viewer bias, means great differences in perception.
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spiral97

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2007, 09:54:15 AM »
reminds me of something a girl once told me about girls in general:
Quote
Let's say you can rate a girl's "upsetness" on a scale of 0 through 10 where 0 means she is not upset at all and 10 is the mother of all "upsetnesses" holy cow you better be somewhere else and don't come within 300 miles until it blows over... and then lets say that something happens that pushes a her "upsetness" from 0 to say 6.. and then lets say you come along and do something that pushes her "upsetness" up one notch to 7.  When that happens, you don't get "credit" for just the one notch.. no.. you get "credit" for the entire 7 notches.

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mu03eng

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2007, 10:21:30 AM »
Outstanding work Spiral.  ;D  I'm going to have to use that in the future.


Once had a physics teacher explain relativity this way:  Putting your hand on a hot stove for a few seconds feels like a few hours, while putting your hand on a hot girl for a few hours feels like a few seconds.  Thank god for public schools! :)
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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2007, 11:42:06 AM »
Outstanding work Spiral.  ;D  I'm going to have to use that in the future.


Once had a physics teacher explain relativity this way:  Putting your hand on a hot stove for a few seconds feels like a few hours, while putting your hand on a hot girl for a few hours feels like a few seconds.  Thank god for public schools! :)

MU Eng, you may be right.  However, if you are then it must be that most of America agrees with me.

POLLS of MEDIA PERCEPTION (How the Public Views the Media)

  Institute for Politics, Democracy and the Internet/Zogby Survey, 2007

In a February 20-26, 2007 survey conducted for the Politics Online Conference 2007, the George Washington University's Institute for Politics, Democracy and the Internet paired with Zogby Interactive to question 1,757 likely voters about their perceptions of media bias. The pollsters found "the vast majority of American voters believe media bias is alive and well," with only a tiny 11 percent of the public saying they don't think the media take political sides. And by a huge margin, the public suggested the media's bias tilts in favor of liberals, not conservatives.

KEY FINDINGS:
# The vast majority of American voters detected media bias: "83 percent of likely voters said the media is biased in one direction or another, while just 11 percent believe the media doesn't take political sides," Zogby reported.
 
# By a huge margin, most of those who saw media bias thought it favored liberals: "Nearly two-thirds of those online respondents who detected bias in the media (64 percent) said the media leans left, while slightly more than a quarter of respondents (28 percent) said they see a conservative bias."
 
# Republicans and independents both saw the media as dominated by liberals, and even some Democratic voters agreed: "While 97 percent of Republicans surveyed said the media are liberal, two-thirds of political independents feel the same....Just two-thirds of Democrats were certain the media skewed right — and 17 percent said the bias favored the left."




Phi Iota Gamma 84

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2007, 05:44:50 PM »
Now that I've taken the time to read the article, I don't see it nearly as black and white as your disingenuous title states. So much for honest discourse. It is all about sensationalism, right?

 - Can we look at the 144 reporters in this sample as representative of what everyone else *might* do (but haven't)? At .1% of the reporters in the country, that's a pretty small sample size.

 - Do we care at all that some of these contributions most definitely came from reporters that have nothing to do with political reporting?

...and the nail i the coffin for me: Are we at all concerned that the liberal media is producing pieces about possible liberal bias in newsrooms? Seems like self-destructive behavior to me.

Presidential polls that represent the entire population of over 18 "likely voters routinely use around 5000 as a sample.  5000/~100,000,000 which is .005%. which by the 0.1% seems even less significant except that all of the politicians seem to take it seriously and all of the uh oh REPORTERS.  Pretty obvious your major did not require statistics
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Pakuni

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2007, 06:42:35 PM »
Presidential polls that represent the entire population of over 18 "likely voters routinely use around 5000 as a sample.  5000/~100,000,000 which is .005%. which by the 0.1% seems even less significant except that all of the politicians seem to take it seriously and all of the uh oh REPORTERS.  Pretty obvious your major did not require statistics

Except, once again, this was not a poll. MSNBC did not pick out 144 random journalists and study their giving habits as a sampling of the press at large. Rather, they scoured FEC disclosure reports for media workers (you can search the FEC database by employer/occupation) and out of the thousands and thousands who have given to political campaigns, they came up with 144 in the media. That's 144 out of the thousands of press workers out there. As Nathan correctly noted, that's a tiny fraction of the press that gives to political causes. And, as I said earlier, the great majority of those that have made political contributions aren't in the business of covering politics.
What was your major?

nathanziarek

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2007, 08:43:27 PM »
Pretty obvious your major did not require statistics
Bit harsh!

I phrased it poorly, but Pakuni got my back. The problem is less about the sample size than about how that sample was arrived at. Even if only 144 reporters gave money to political causes, the fact that that criteria was used makes the result worthless. Or, rather, it doesn't show liberal bias in the media...it shows that of 144 reporters researched, conservative reporters are much less likely to put their money where their mouth is.

Also, there are like 300,000,000 folks in this country, which is not within the acceptable range of "~"

Pretty obvious your major didn't require Google :)
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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2007, 10:38:47 PM »
Pretty obvious your major did not require statistics
Bit harsh!

I phrased it poorly, but Pakuni got my back. The problem is less about the sample size than about how that sample was arrived at. Even if only 144 reporters gave money to political causes, the fact that that criteria was used makes the result worthless. Or, rather, it doesn't show liberal bias in the media...it shows that of 144 reporters researched, conservative reporters are much less likely to put their money where their mouth is.

Also, there are like 300,000,000 folks in this country, which is not within the acceptable range of "~"

Pretty obvious your major didn't require Google :)

Makes the results "worthless".  Good Lord....how much empirical evidence is required...how many polls are required...how many studies are required...how many direct comments from Titans like Walter Kronkite, Peter Jennings, producers at CBS, CNN, reporters like Bernard Goldberg, etc does it take? 

If reporters are putting money behind candidates and causes that should send MAJOR alarms off.  I find it hilarious that the left gets all hot and bothered about scientists that are skeptics of Global Warming and the left immediately goes into "they're funded by big oil or whatever" arguments, but when reporters are putting their own money toward liberal causes this apparently is no big deal?  Are you crapping me?  I'm sorry Nathan, but if a reporter is willing to throw $2500 toward a candidate or cause, you better bet your ass that reporter is going to make sure his money went for something that reporter believes in and something that reporter will try to sell to other voters.  The power of the pen...the power of the microphone...the power of setting the agenda.  To think otherwise shows no common sense or complete blindness to reality.  These reporters aren't giving money out and just sitting around hoping it does some good.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2007, 10:42:13 PM by ChicosBailBonds »

Pakuni

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Re: Reporters give $$$ to Democrats 9 to 1 over the GOP
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2007, 12:34:23 AM »
If reporters are putting money behind candidates and causes that should send MAJOR alarms off.  I find it hilarious that the left gets all hot and bothered about scientists that are skeptics of Global Warming and the left immediately goes into "they're funded by big oil or whatever" arguments, but when reporters are putting their own money toward liberal causes this apparently is no big deal?  Are you crapping me?  I'm sorry Nathan, but if a reporter is willing to throw $2500 toward a candidate or cause, you better bet your ass that reporter is going to make sure his money went for something that reporter believes in and something that reporter will try to sell to other voters.  The power of the pen...the power of the microphone...the power of setting the agenda.  To think otherwise shows no common sense or complete blindness to reality.  These reporters aren't giving money out and just sitting around hoping it does some good.



Chico's,

Why is it that you continue to ignore the fact that the vast majority of these "reporters" are not reporters at all? And of those that are reporters, a miniscule number cover politics?
Call me crazy, but I tend to believe that's pretty relevant when discussing this story. Why do you feel otherwise?

 

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