get Butler on the schedule?

[mug644]

This ESPN article http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7984779/butler-bulldogs-move-atlantic-10-now-set-season saying that Butler will move to the A-10 this coming season notes that "the Bulldogs now need to schedule three more games for next season. Butler had a series with Xavier that will have to be replaced since they now are league partners."

While we have a solid non-conference schedule shaping up, might an MU-Butler game/series be a good pick up?

[4everwarriors]

Thought this was gonna be about schedulin' da Bulls.

[brewcity77]

Can't see it. We're already in Maui with them and Marquette will want some buy games. Too much strength there already to anticipate any names that big.

[mug644]

Can't see it. We're already in Maui with them and Marquette will want some buy games. Too much strength there already to anticipate any names that big.

I completely forgot that they would also be in Maui. Then again, we didn't expect to play Norfolk St. both in a tournament and with the regular non-conference game!

Still, I've thought for a few years that Butler could be a good team to schedule a home and home with. That or one of those preseason scrimmages.

[Benny B]

I completely forgot that they would also be in Maui. Then again, we didn't expect to play Norfolk St. both in a tournament and with the regular non-conference game!

Both of the NfSU games were both scheduled as part of the PJ.  IIRC, it's the rare situation where matching up with a non-con opponent twice in one season is allowed by the NCAA.

[bilsu]

Both of the NfSU games were both scheduled as part of the PJ.  IIRC, it's the rare situation where matching up with a non-con opponent twice in one season is allowed by the NCAA.

Is there an NCAA rule against playing a non-conference opponent twice? Why would they even care about that.

[brewcity77]

Is there an NCAA rule against playing a non-conference opponent twice? Why would they even care about that.

Not a rule, but more often than not, when teams meet twice, it's the product of either a tournament quirk (MU/NSU last year) or a buy game coinciding with a tournament (Belmont/Tennessee a couple years ago). It happens, don't think it's that big a deal, but it usually seems to be avoided.

[Benny B]

Is there an NCAA rule against playing a non-conference opponent twice? Why would they even care about that.

Upon further research, I can't find an NCAA prohibition on scheduling a non-con opponent twice... it may be rule that some conferences have, but I can't confirm that either.  Unfortunately, the Big East basketball policy manual isn't available online.

In any event, I would think schools are motivated to avoid scheduling the same non-con opponent twice in a season for the following reasons:

1) Diversification of the non-con schedule (i.e. maximize exposure to "different" teams and playing styles).
2) RPI implications of two games against a low-RPI team ("doubling-down" on an opponent, or the eggs in one basket theory)
3) The risk of losing one or both games to a high-RPI and/or high-major in non-con.
4) Fans don't want to see the same cupcake (or perhaps any team, for that matter) twice on their home schedule.

Basically, high-majors want buy games, mid-majors want multi-year mirrors, and low-majors aren't worth it.

In other words, MU might be amenable to scheduling Butler, but Butler is probably going to want a) a home game of its own and/or b) to see other competition.

[brewcity77]

In other words, MU might be amenable to scheduling Butler, but Butler is probably going to want a) a home game of its own and/or b) to see other competition.

Maybe so, but not this year. We will likely have 13 non-conference games. Here's what we know:

Neutral site (4) - Ohio State, Maui Invitational (3 of UNC, Butler, Texas, Illinois, USC, Mississippi State, Chaminade)
Home (4) - Wisconsin, UW-Milwaukee, LSU, Maui Mainland
Away (2) - UW-Green Bay, BE/SEC Challenge (Likely Florida or Mizzou)

I think one of the important things to look at are "losable" games. At the end of the day, the staff wants the minimum expectation of our schedule to be 20 wins by Selection Sunday. I would guess that the conference slate should be expected to provide 11 of those wins (9-11 in conference play, 0-2 in BE Tournament). That means we will want to be able to get at least 9 wins out of the non-conference.

Of the 13 games, right now I'd say Ohio State, the BE/SEC game, and 2 games in Maui would be considered (4) high risk games, largely because of quality teams in non-friendly venues. The Wisconsin, LSU, other Maui game, and UW-Green Bay would be (4) medium risk games. We should win, but the teams will have high-major talent or home court advantage, making them possible losses. The only games currently scheduled that should be "gimme" games are Milwaukee and the Maui Mainland games. If you go on the low end and assume 1 win out of the high-risk games and 2 wins out of the medium-risk games, you absolutely need to win all your other non-con games and then exceed the 11-win Big East expectation just to get to 20.

We have 7 (likely) high-major opponents and 2 (likely) top-200 mid-majors in UW-M and UW-GB. We have one complete unknown mid-major in the Maui Mainland game. That leaves us with 3 games. My hope is that all of them are top-300 opponents, but I would expect all of them at best to be in the 150-250 range as buy games. There won't be any more unknown high-majors or reputable mid-majors on the schedule.

[Benny B]

Maybe so, but not this year. We will likely have 13 non-conference games. Here's what we know:

Neutral site (4) - Ohio State, Maui Invitational (3 of UNC, Butler, Texas, Illinois, USC, Mississippi State, Chaminade)
Home (4) - Wisconsin, UW-Milwaukee, LSU, Maui Mainland
Away (2) - UW-Green Bay, BE/SEC Challenge (Likely Florida or Mizzou)

I think one of the important things to look at are "losable" games. At the end of the day, the staff wants the minimum expectation of our schedule to be 20 wins by Selection Sunday. I would guess that the conference slate should be expected to provide 11 of those wins (9-11 in conference play, 0-2 in BE Tournament). That means we will want to be able to get at least 9 wins out of the non-conference.

Of the 13 games, right now I'd say Ohio State, the BE/SEC game, and 2 games in Maui would be considered (4) high risk games, largely because of quality teams in non-friendly venues. The Wisconsin, LSU, other Maui game, and UW-Green Bay would be (4) medium risk games. We should win, but the teams will have high-major talent or home court advantage, making them possible losses. The only games currently scheduled that should be "gimme" games are Milwaukee and the Maui Mainland games. If you go on the low end and assume 1 win out of the high-risk games and 2 wins out of the medium-risk games, you absolutely need to win all your other non-con games and then exceed the 11-win Big East expectation just to get to 20.

We have 7 (likely) high-major opponents and 2 (likely) top-200 mid-majors in UW-M and UW-GB. We have one complete unknown mid-major in the Maui Mainland game. That leaves us with 3 games. My hope is that all of them are top-300 opponents, but I would expect all of them at best to be in the 150-250 range as buy games. There won't be any more unknown high-majors or reputable mid-majors on the schedule.

Amenable, not desirable... but we're on the same page, here.  I will add, however, to the obvious downside mentioned, running the table in non-con makes MU an early favorite on the 1 or 2-line, and even a mediocre performance in non-con helps a potential bubble situation (depending on the BE season).

This has the potential to be one of the strongest non-con schedules in the country... as long as they don't crash and burn, schedules like this are rewarded accordingly come Selection Sunday.

[brewcity77]

Amenable, not desirable... but we're on the same page, here.  I will add, however, to the obvious downside mentioned, running the table in non-con makes MU an early favorite on the 1 or 2-line, and even a mediocre performance in non-con helps a potential bubble situation (depending on the BE season).

This has the potential to be one of the strongest non-con schedules in the country... as long as they don't crash and burn, schedules like this are rewarded accordingly come Selection Sunday.

+1,000

And they don't need to bolster it further with anything but wins. Add in three teams in the 150-250 range and we will have one of the strongest NCSOS out there. Even if you add in three sub-250 teams, you still have a very good NCSOS just based on what we already know.

[Dawson Rental]

Can't see it. We're already in Maui with them and Marquette will want some buy games. Too much strength there already to anticipate any names that big.

Who cares what you can or can't see?  What does the cat hear through his tin ears?

[brewcity77]

Who cares what you can or can't see?  What does the cat hear through his tin ears?

Everything. They amplify sound.

[4everwarriors]

Felix looks like he could use a little tail, aina?