Issac Chew to MU?

[GGGG]

The problem I have with Big Daddy's rumor with regards to Jabari Parker is that the logic doesn't hold true.  Benford was in close with Simeon.  Simeon's coach is on the record saying something about a "pipeline to Marquette," but at the same time pretty much inferred that Parker wasn't coming to MU.  We pretty much had all the connections in place before, and Parker wasn't coming....do we really think that swapping out Benford with Chew would make that much of a difference with the #1 high school player in the country???

[Pakuni]

The problem I have with Big Daddy's rumor with regards to Jabari Parker is that the logic doesn't hold true.  Benford was in close with Simeon.  Simeon's coach is on the record saying something about a "pipeline to Marquette," but at the same time pretty much inferred that Parker wasn't coming to MU.  We pretty much had all the connections in place before, and Parker wasn't coming....do we really think that swapping out Benford with Chew would make that much of a difference with the #1 high school player in the country???

Big Daddy's "rumor" simply stated that Chew was Illinois' lead recruiter for Parker and that could help MU. We know the first half to be true, based on all the reporting about Chew's hire by Groce indicating he was brought on to recruit Chicago, particularly the CPL.

[Goose]

BigDaddy's post actually was good news and I took it as good news. I do believe his post was deeper than just he was lead JP recruiter at IU. Stated JP has interest in MU and we are flying under the radar.

[brewcity77]

The irony is that the "tin-foil" response was borne out of a mind-numbingly ridiculous overreaction to the information (read: rumors) that were shared.

I mean, how else does a reasonable person respond to some of the truly nutty conspiracy theories that were floated - and in some instances embraced - around here over the past six weeks?

There are no reasonable people. They clearly aren't allowed anymore. Either you are bunkered into MU perfection and the everything is coming up daisies mentality that madtownwarrior, hoopaloop, and Canadian Dimes espouse constantly, or you are in the tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theory lunatic fringe that Goose and MUMac represent. Or are purported to represent. Whatever.

So if someone heard about the sexual assault allegations from Humphrey a couple years ago and tried to share, does that make them a nutty conspiracy theorist? Obviously there was something to it. Maybe not as much as we thought, maybe more than some thought, but something, regardless. What if someone heard about the fight at Club 720 and tried to share? Similar situation, but now they must be a nutty conspiracy theorist too. Seems there wasn't as much to that story, but that didn't mean there weren't legitimate rumors out there. But if someone heard there was more to it and shared that, just because they got bad information, does that make them a nutty conspiracy theorist? How could they know beforehand whether the information was legit or not?

The same goes with this stuff. Is there truth to Buzz having issues with LW and SP? I honestly don't know. I haven't sat down and talked to any of them, nor have I received any deeply personal emails like Ners did confirming exactly how everything is going behind the scenes. If there isn't, great. But if there is and someone heard about it, why does it make them a nutty conspiracy theorist for wanting to share?

Or the "moving Marquette back to SLU status" thing. I'm sure it was an overexaggeration, but we have a basketball budget that is 2nd only to Duke despite not having near the success or overall size of school to justify such a budget. Maybe the powers that be do want to scale it back. Maybe hiring Chew and Autry to fill those positions is an example of just that. Let's say these were the old assistant pay levels:

TB 1,000,000
Aki 700,000
Monarch 300,000

And these are the new ones:

Chew 900,000
Monarch 350,000
Autry 250,000

Aki leaves because he wants Benford money to stay, but Buzz's budget has been cut by 25% and knows he can't give it to him. Monarch stays for a raise in status and money, Autry comes in cheaper than any of the old guys, and he pays Chew top-assistant money, but not as much as Benford was getting. It's a much, much cheaper staff on the whole. If that were the case (no idea if it is, sheer conjecture) wouldn't that indicate a possible shift towards a cheaper program, and possibly confirm that some of the rumors might have some legs?

No one is saying Marquette is going to drop basketball, they're just saying they are hearing some things they don't like. For some, saying that is akin to dooming the program, so they paint these people as doomsayers and conspiracy theorists. And the site becomes unreasonable. But it's entirely possible that some of the stuff they are saying is already happening behind the scenes and we just don't realize it. And even if it isn't, is it their fault that they were given bad information and want to brace the MU community and their online friends for what might be coming?

[Goose]

BrewCity

Great post. Only thing I want to add is I want us to have the #1 ball budget and hope Hoops, Dimes and Madtown are 100% correct.

[madtownwarrior]

Great post Brew -  other than you used "sheer conjecture" (your words) that might "possibly confirm that some of the rumors might have some legs?"

quite a stretch there...  making up scenarios that we don't have the facts on that might support rumors that people heard from "sources."


I get it - it's a message board but making up scenarios that might support a possible rumor seems like a huge waste of energy...

[brewcity77]

Great post Brew -  other than you used "sheer conjecture" (your words) that might "possibly confirm that some of the rumors might have some legs?"

quite a stretch there...  making up scenarios that we don't have the facts on that might support rumors that people heard from "sources."


I get it - it's a message board but making up scenarios that might support a possible rumor seems like a huge waste of energy...

No, a huge waste of energy would be branding half the site as wearing "tin foil hats" because they said something you don't like.

If we're going to ban "if then" statements, we might as well just shut down the entire internet. What's the point of having a DISCUSSION FORUM if you never want to DISCUSS? Every time someone surmises that something bad might happen, they end up with a tin foil hat nailed to their head just because someone else doesn't like it. It's ridiculous.

This whole "Hiroshima" thing began, as I recall, with MUMac saying something along the lines of "if this happens, the response here will be like Hiroshima". I'm paraphrasing, can't be arsed to go back and look up the exact wording, but would anyone here argue with that? IF, IF, IF Marquette were changing their academic requirements and not allowing for players to have time to catch up, wouldn't that lead to a pretty massive outcry? Who knows what the truth is? It sounds like they may be upping academic standards. Maybe that is the case and it got distorted through the telephone game before it got to Mac's ears and MUScoop's forum. So now MUMac is some insane conspiracy theorist because he thinks people would be upset with that? No! That's stupid! Because he's absolutely right. This place would go nuts if that happened. That doesn't mean it will happen, that doesn't mean he heard it exactly right or the gospel was given to his ears, but there would be madness here IF that were the case.

And who knows what happened since then? Maybe the guys in academic trouble busted their asses and got their grades in order. Maybe the changes are coming, but will be rolled in over the next 2-3 years. Maybe it's all a fabrication. And maybe we're going to hear about 2 more transfers before the end of summer. Who knows? But branding MUMac as the bad guy for it is ridiculous. Branding Goose as the bad guy is ridiculous.

[ATWizJr]

No, a huge waste of energy would be branding half the site as wearing "tin foil hats" because they said something you don't like.

If we're going to ban "if then" statements, we might as well just shut down the entire internet. What's the point of having a DISCUSSION FORUM if you never want to DISCUSS? Every time someone surmises that something bad might happen, they end up with a tin foil hat nailed to their head just because someone else doesn't like it. It's ridiculous.

This whole "Hiroshima" thing began, as I recall, with MUMac saying something along the lines of "if this happens, the response here will be like Hiroshima". I'm paraphrasing, can't be arsed to go back and look up the exact wording, but would anyone here argue with that? IF, IF, IF Marquette were changing their academic requirements and not allowing for players to have time to catch up, wouldn't that lead to a pretty massive outcry? Who knows what the truth is? It sounds like they may be upping academic standards. Maybe that is the case and it got distorted through the telephone game before it got to Mac's ears and MUScoop's forum. So now MUMac is some insane conspiracy theorist because he thinks people would be upset with that? No! That's stupid! Because he's absolutely right. This place would go nuts if that happened. That doesn't mean it will happen, that doesn't mean he heard it exactly right or the gospel was given to his ears, but there would be madness here IF that were the case.

And who knows what happened since then? Maybe the guys in academic trouble busted their asses and got their grades in order. Maybe the changes are coming, but will be rolled in over the next 2-3 years. Maybe it's all a fabrication. And maybe we're going to hear about 2 more transfers before the end of summer. Who knows? But branding MUMac as the bad guy for it is ridiculous. Branding Goose as the bad guy is ridiculous.

madtown et al, if it's such a huge waste of energy I suggest you use your energy in some other way besides labeling concerned posters as "tin foil hat" wearers.  Let's face it, your main motivation seems to be self aggrandizement at the expense of others.

[JakeBarnes]

Speaking of hats... Who decided snap backs needed to come back? Sheesh.

[bilsu]

J. Parker had a list of about 10 schools, which does not include MU. I hope this does not turn into months of delusional posters here saying he is going to come to MU. J.P. Tokoto had long ruled out MU with people here still hoping we would get him.

[madtownwarrior]

self-aggrandizement - n, the act of increasing one's own power, importance, etc., esp in an aggressive or ruthless manner

I have to admit my MU education failed me on that one.    Hey - so one can can increase their power & importance and in aggressive or ruthless manner at the expense of others on this very MU BBoard by calling others "tin foil hat" wearers (by the way, I was not the one who started this) - never knew that.    

Either you are more than slightly exaggerating the dialogue on a message board or take this way too seriously...

My only motivation is to call bullshit on the use of rumors and unidentified sources to say Pilarz and Williams are out to destroy the program...

I have "sources" (as most do who follow the program closely) who have said some pretty interesting things about MU basketball over the years and recently - none of which I posted here cause I have no way to know how correct they are and in no way want to feed the nature of this board to try to find every in every situation that the admin is out to destroy the program.

Guess I should give up the reading of "anonymous users" posting "facts" based on "rumors" from "unidentifiable sources" and save myself the aggravation....

madtown et al, if it's such a huge waste of energy I suggest you use your energy in some other way besides labeling concerned posters as "tin foil hat" wearers.  Let's face it, your main motivation seems to be self aggrandizement at the expense of others.

[Pakuni]

No one is saying Marquette is going to drop basketball, they're just saying they are hearing some things they don't like. For some, saying that is akin to dooming the program, so they paint these people as doomsayers and conspiracy theorists. And the site becomes unreasonable. But it's entirely possible that some of the stuff they are saying is already happening behind the scenes and we just don't realize it. And even if it isn't, is it their fault that they were given bad information and want to brace the MU community and their online friends for what might be coming?

Brew .... I'm afraid you've entirely missed my point, probably because I didn't state it well enough. I'm not being critical of those sharing information, as you like to call it (I call it rumors because information denotes knowledge and fact, which the vast majority of this "information" and the people offering it lack).
I'm critical of those offering the over-the-top reaction that information elicits.

A rumor that a player or two may be having academic issues - hardly a first in the history of MU - becomes a conspiracy by Larry Williams and Fr. Pilarz to create unreasonably high standards and then impose them retroactively.

A rumor that some on the BOT don't like all the JUCOs becomes an edict handed down from the administration telling Buzz he no longer can recruit the kinds of players he wants.

A rumor that Buzz has legit interest in the SMU job becomes evidence that the administration and BOT wants a basketball program on par with St. Louis.

And so on.

It's not necessarily the people offering these rumors who I'm criticizing - though perhaps they would be more mindful of the rumors they might post -  it's the people who take those rumors and extrapolate them into proof of a worst possible case scenario. And think that adding the word "IF" absolves them of any responsibility for their statements.

I heard (insert name here) diddles children in public parks. IF he did that, it would be bad.
Would you have problem with that statement? After all, I added an "if."

[Blackhat]

The rumor was of increasing high standards and a switch at mid year, not giving time for kids to adjust.   Posters were rightfully upset by that idea.  

And the fact IWB states Buzz is listening to SMU is going to cause angst.   Sure it gets old but the initial reaction is going to be WTF in those scenarios.

[Goose]

Pakuni

I stated the SLU comparison during the Buzz/SMU dance and used it as comparison type program of what diminished influence on basketball program would mean. I stated that school very well might be leaning to lower profile program, with smaller budget and less power given to head coach. IMO those changes would make us a SLU-like program. We have had off court issues, slightly lower grad rate, a weakened conference and second biggest budget. An outside consultant would advise either spend more and get better or spend less and find spot in second tier of NCAA.

[Blackhat]

The SLU comparison is pretty dumb.   No sane president and AD are going to strive to suck.   Maybe they'd strive to be ND or Stanford without the academic institution rankings to back it up but nobody is trying to be St. Louis.  EVER.

[bilsu]

The SLU comparison is pretty dumb.   No sane president and AD are going to strive to suck.   Maybe they'd strive to be ND or Stanford without the academic institution rankings to back it up but nobody is trying to be St. Louis.  EVER.

All of this makes me appreciate my Fr. Wild bobble head more.

[Benny B]

Brew .... I'm afraid you've entirely missed my point, probably because I didn't state it well enough. I'm not being critical of those sharing information, as you like to call it (I call it rumors because information denotes knowledge and fact, which the vast majority of this "information" and the people offering it lack).
I'm critical of those offering the over-the-top reaction that information elicits.

A rumor that a player or two may be having academic issues - hardly a first in the history of MU - becomes a conspiracy by Larry Williams and Fr. Pilarz to create unreasonably high standards and then impose them retroactively.

A rumor that some on the BOT don't like all the JUCOs becomes an edict handed down from the administration telling Buzz he no longer can recruit the kinds of players he wants.

A rumor that Buzz has legit interest in the SMU job becomes evidence that the administration and BOT wants a basketball program on par with St. Louis.

And so on.

It's not necessarily the people offering these rumors who I'm criticizing - though perhaps they would be more mindful of the rumors they might post -  it's the people who take those rumors and extrapolate them into proof of a worst possible case scenario. And think that adding the word "IF" absolves them of any responsibility for their statements.

I heard (insert name here) diddles children in public parks. IF he did that, it would be bad.
Would you have problem with that statement? After all, I added an "if."

Come on, Pak... you're ruining what remaining fun there is to have around here.  That is to say, if some of us are simply having fun.

[Goose]

StoneCold
Agreed on no one strive to be SLU, but do you think SLU strives to be SLU or did it just happen? Lesser conference, smaller budget and different coach or players might make what you really are striving for unattainable. Your point on ND or Stanford is well stated but we are not those two schools academically. My SLU reference is made simply by taking a similar institution on national scene. We are far closer to SLU as university than we are ND or Stanford and hence the comparison. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not thinking clearly.

[Blackhat]

All of this makes me appreciate my Fr. Wild bobble head more.

Wild was one of a kind.   Definitely got the steamboat rolling as far as athletics, admissions and campus infrastructure.

[Blackhat]

StoneCold
Agreed on no one strive to be SLU, but do you think SLU strives to be SLU or did it just happen? Lesser conference, smaller budget and different coach or players might make what you really are striving for unattainable. Your point on ND or Stanford is well stated but we are not those two schools academically. My SLU reference is made simply by taking a similar institution on national scene. We are far closer to SLU as university than we are ND or Stanford and hence the comparison. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not thinking clearly.

I've seen no signs of a scale back on budget or trying to get in a lesser conference.   

[Rubie Q]

The rumor was of increasing high standards and a switch at mid year, not giving time for kids to adjust.   Posters were rightfully upset by that idea.  

And the fact IWB states Buzz is listening to SMU is going to cause angst.   Sure it gets old but the initial reaction is going to be WTF in those scenarios.

There's "rightfully upset" and "WTF" on one end of the spectrum, and then there's the "send Larry Williams an email and tell him if our coach leaves because LW's a twatface [and, yes, that term was actually used] I'm not going to support the program anymore" stuff that started right after IWB's tweet on the other end.

[MU82]

J. Parker had a list of about 10 schools, which does not include MU. I hope this does not turn into months of delusional posters here saying he is going to come to MU. J.P. Tokoto had long ruled out MU with people here still hoping we would get him.

Wait ... you mean we're not getting Tokoto?

[Lennys Tap]

It's not necessarily the people offering these rumors who I'm criticizing - though perhaps they would be more mindful of the rumors they might post -  it's the people who take those rumors and extrapolate them into proof of a worst possible case scenario. And think that adding the word "IF" absolves them of any responsibility for their statements.

I heard (insert name here) diddles children in public parks. IF he did that, it would be bad.
Would you have problem with that statement? After all, I added an "if."

I've disagreed with some of your reactions to this topic but think your absolutely dead on in your criticisms of the "if" people. Our friend from the west was infamous for using that tactic.

[brewcity77]

Brew .... I'm afraid you've entirely missed my point...

You are completely right, I did miss your point. My apologies. I agree completely that things are getting extrapolated waaaaaaaay too far, which is leading to this board going insane.

And while if statements can be tricky, I also think that without them, you lose a lot of value. "If Marquette wins their next 3", "If we can land Looney and Stone", "If Marquette cuts their basketball budget", all of them provide talking points, and it isn't until they are blown out of proportion that we lose the plot. Obviously the "If we no longer take JUCOs" type of argument can go sour in a hurry, but I'd rather be able to have the discussion if academics may be changing than just head-in-the-sand it all.

Either way, this whole thing strikes me as just too much time and not enough going on. We haven't had recruits on campus, we haven't had too many new guys we're rumored with, we haven't had any games, the Pro-Am hasn't started yet...everyone wants something to talk about, but as there really isn't much, all this stuff gets created and blown out of proportion. November 9 can't come soon enough.

[MUMac]

No, a huge waste of energy would be branding half the site as wearing "tin foil hats" because they said something you don't like.

If we're going to ban "if then" statements, we might as well just shut down the entire internet. What's the point of having a DISCUSSION FORUM if you never want to DISCUSS? Every time someone surmises that something bad might happen, they end up with a tin foil hat nailed to their head just because someone else doesn't like it. It's ridiculous.

This whole "Hiroshima" thing began, as I recall, with MUMac saying something along the lines of "if this happens, the response here will be like Hiroshima". I'm paraphrasing, can't be arsed to go back and look up the exact wording, but would anyone here argue with that? IF, IF, IF Marquette were changing their academic requirements and not allowing for players to have time to catch up, wouldn't that lead to a pretty massive outcry? Who knows what the truth is? It sounds like they may be upping academic standards. Maybe that is the case and it got distorted through the telephone game before it got to Mac's ears and MUScoop's forum. So now MUMac is some insane conspiracy theorist because he thinks people would be upset with that? No! That's stupid! Because he's absolutely right. This place would go nuts if that happened. That doesn't mean it will happen, that doesn't mean he heard it exactly right or the gospel was given to his ears, but there would be madness here IF that were the case.

And who knows what happened since then? Maybe the guys in academic trouble busted their asses and got their grades in order. Maybe the changes are coming, but will be rolled in over the next 2-3 years. Maybe it's all a fabrication. And maybe we're going to hear about 2 more transfers before the end of summer. Who knows? But branding MUMac as the bad guy for it is ridiculous. Branding Goose as the bad guy is ridiculous.

Could you please give me the posts where I mentioned Hiroshima (other than this one time)?  I will help you, I never have.  In fact, I have not played the game on this board at all.  Thanks for calling me out, though.