MU continues down a path I cannot support

[brewcity77]

I think the attempts to avoid making what is obviously a political thread political are incredibly amusing

[Ari Gold]

I tend to agree with that, but further, if you didn't think a portion of MU's faculty tended toward liberal thinking .. and a portion leaned conservative, and some were in the middle .. you weren't paying attention. 

When MU hires non-Jesuits, I don't believe MU has ever required a fealty oath prior to their employment.  They are who they are, (hopefully) experts in their field who can inspire and impart their knowledge to a younger generation.   

I was actually working on a project of trying to see which MU professors signed the recall (iverifytherecall) for my own interests. Got to the political science section and couldn't find anyone. Turns out one of the socialist* poli sci profs was circulating recall petitions and one of the professors I like signed it and showed me the link to their signature. The second part of what hilltopper said is garbage... inspire and impart.. hahaha

My qualm isn't with the article 'rebuking Ryan's budget' "accusing him of distorting Catholic social teaching in its defense", yet they aren't part of the 43 institutions suing HHS over the Obamacare mandate (Notre Dame and the Archdiocese of NY is) of trying to distort Catholic teachings.

*this professor is an admitted socialist, not using it as an insult

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

"The truth shall make you free."  (Somebody or other said that.)

Along the same lines from Mark Twain:

"When in doubt, do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."

[cj111]

If this came from a group of Bishops, Cardinal Dolan, etc., that would be a different story, but let's call this what it is, a bunch of academics espousing their political point of view under the guise of Church tenant. They are free to do so, but it's simply not what I want to see coming out of MU.

If you're going to point out bad writing in the JS article, you might want to make sure you check your own first; the word you're looking for is "tenet" not "tenant" (actually, you're looking for "tenets," since there are more than one).

[wyzgy]

As stated above, I am going to be careful not to discuss the merits of the letter or the government policy.  That said, the very first sentence of JS's coverage indicates that a total of 50 faculty signed.  Marquette prides itself on academic freedom.  I'd be careful not to paint with too broad a brush and ascribe the sentiments of those faculty members to an overall university position.  For reference, I take you back to a very headed debate regarding the appointment of the Arts and Sciences Dean two years ago.  There were strong feelings on both sides.

despite the "small" number of faculty ascribing to this letter, i would think marquette would want to weigh in.  they still represent the university, right or wrong.  to say paul ryan's budget proposal is "immoral" is quite heavy however.  first off, if something is not done to right the ship, medicaid/medicare will cease to exist at all.  it will be bk and no one will benefit-how moral would that be.  secondly, where in the catholic doctrine does it say we are to support some of these slackers cradle to grave?  that in and of itself would be immotal imho of course.  now along the lines of morality, where are these sacrosanct faculty nmembers on the real moral issues facing us such as contraception and abortion and the feds mandating that catholic institutions pay for them despite being totally against our teachings.  if there were any case for separation of church and state, it would be here and now.   

[GGGG]

I was actually working on a project of trying to see which MU professors signed the recall (iverifytherecall) for my own interests. Got to the political science section and couldn't find anyone. Turns out one of the socialist* poli sci profs was circulating recall petitions and one of the professors I like signed it and showed me the link to their signature. The second part of what hilltopper said is garbage... inspire and impart.. hahaha

Why is it garbage?

[GGGG]

despite the "small" number of faculty ascribing to this letter, i would think marquette would want to weigh in.  they still represent the university, right or wrong.  to say paul ryan's budget proposal is "immoral" is quite heavy however.  first off, if something is not done to right the ship, medicaid/medicare will cease to exist at all.  it will be bk and no one will benefit-how moral would that be.  secondly, where in the catholic doctrine does it say we are to support some of these slackers cradle to grave?  that in and of itself would be immotal imho of course.  now along the lines of morality, where are these sacrosanct faculty nmembers on the real moral issues facing us such as contraception and abortion and the feds mandating that catholic institutions pay for them despite being totally against our teachings.  if there were any case for separation of church and state, it would be here and now.   

I would understand if MU decides to sue the feds over the health care mandate a la Notre Dame.

However, MU isn't (and shouldn't) rebuke its faculty members over a letter stating their opinions.  They never did it with McAdams and the nickname issue.  Universities have to let that stuff from its faculty slide.

[reinko]

I would understand if MU decides to sue the feds over the health care mandate a la Notre Dame.

However, MU isn't (and shouldn't) rebuke its faculty members over a letter stating their opinions.  They never did it with McAdams and the nickname issue.  Universities have to let that stuff from its faculty slide.

It's because of the conspiracy that college professors goal in life is to produce welfare loving communists.

[LAZER]

However, MU isn't (and shouldn't) rebuke its faculty members over a letter stating their opinions.  They never did it with McAdams and the nickname issue.  Universities have to let that stuff from its faculty slide.

I'm not to familiar with the hiring process of univeristy professors, but I'd imagine if MU starts rebuking their professors they're going to have a much harder time getting quality teachers in there.  Especially in  Arts and Sciences.  This day and age you absolutely have to allow your faculty to do this stuff.

[GGGG]

I'm not to familiar with the hiring process of univeristy professors, but I'd imagine if MU starts rebuking their professors they're going to have a much harder time getting quality teachers in there.  Especially in  Arts and Sciences.  This day and age you absolutely have to allow your faculty to do this stuff.

Yes.  And while I think sometimes academics hide behind the "academic freedom" argument too often to support complete whack-job opinions, faculty members are not really employees in the traditional sense of the word...but Marquette isn't IBM either and shouldn't be treated that way.

[wyzgy]

Yes.  And while I think sometimes academics hide behind the "academic freedom" argument too often to support complete whack-job opinions, faculty members are not really employees in the traditional sense of the word...but Marquette isn't IBM either and shouldn't be treated that way.

i think i said "weigh in"  i believe marquette as a private catholic institution should clarify it's own stance in order to give some relief to those of us who want to think that they still have some core standards from which they arose and got to where they are.  i am not holding my breath however 

[GGGG]

Does MU have an official stance on the "Paul Ryan bill" to "weigh in" with? I doubt it...

[wyzgy]

Does MU have an official stance on the "Paul Ryan bill" to "weigh in" with? I doubt it...

why does this select group of "teachers" feel the need to come out using their affiliation with marquette to state a hypocritical opinion regarding the ethics of paul ryans budget.  why can't they leave marquette out of it?  i know why.  they want the credibility of the mu name, therefore, marquette should have the ability to weigh in

[GGGG]

why does this select group of "teachers" feel the need to come out using their affiliation with marquette to state a hypocritical opinion regarding the ethics of paul ryans budget.  why can't they leave marquette out of it?  i know why.  they want the credibility of the mu name, therefore, marquette should have the ability to weigh in

Marquette has the ability to weigh in.  But the question I have is, what *is* Marquette's official stance on the Paul Ryan bill?  I doubt it has one.

[wyzgy]

Marquette has the ability to weigh in.  But the question I have is, what *is* Marquette's official stance on the Paul Ryan bill?  I doubt it has one.

you are probably right or they are just choosing not to weigh in which doesn't surprise me.  if i had to guess...we would have to ask fr. pilarz directly seeing as how some of his employees have chosen to use their positions at marquette to try to show some type of "higher ground" or authority position.  but if one of my employees used my company as a backdrop to a political position, i would object if it weren't in line with my own, i would disallow it altogether or i would clarify my own position and either distance myself or concur with it

[NavinRJohnson]

If you're going to point out bad writing in the JS article, you might want to make sure you check your own first; the word you're looking for is "tenet" not "tenant" (actually, you're looking for "tenets," since there are more than one).

Thanks professor! Pointing out grammatical and spelling errors is always a great argument (particularly in the age of iPad's annoying autocorrections).

[wildbillsb]

you are probably right or they are just choosing not to weigh in which doesn't surprise me.  if i had to guess...we would have to ask fr. pilarz directly seeing as how some of his employees have chosen to use their positions at marquette to try to show some type of "higher ground" or authority position.  but if one of my employees used my company as a backdrop to a political position, i would object if it weren't in line with my own, i would disallow it altogether or i would clarify my own position and either distance myself or concur with it

Pretty much answered your own question. Academic Freedom provides protection against reprisal by a boss/owner/administrator/supervisor/whomever whose opinions and beliefs are contrary to those of the individual. I don't know about you, but I think that's something we should cherish and strive for in a university?  That's the raison d'etre for having such a place, no?  Truth shall make one free.

[wyzgy]

Pretty much answered your own question. Academic Freedom provides protection against reprisal by a boss/owner/administrator/supervisor/whomever whose opinions and beliefs are contrary to those of the individual. I don't know about you, but I think that's something we should cherish and strive for in a university?  That's the raison d'etre for having such a place, no?  Truth shall make one free.

who said anything about "reprisal"??  not once(nor multiple times) have i even inferred any retaliation or censorship of the teachers for their beliefs. and i love raisons 

[MUBurrow]

why does this select group of "teachers" feel the need to come out using their affiliation with marquette to state a hypocritical opinion regarding the ethics of paul ryans budget.  why can't they leave marquette out of it?  i know why.  they want the credibility of the mu name, therefore, marquette should have the ability to weigh in

who constitutes "marquette" in this situation?

[wyzgy]

who constitutes "marquette" in this situation?

dude-seriously? marquette, michigan.  it depends on what "is" is, right?

[muwarrior69]

Where is Joe McCarthy when you need him?

[MUBurrow]

dude-seriously? marquette, michigan.  it depends on what "is" is, right?

i guess i'm asking who you think has the responsibility to speak for marquette on the issue? prez? does it require a majority vote of the board? even greater coalition of professors? point being that often times we want a soundbite to attribute to the alma mater for one reason or another, but its much tougher to pinpoint the people with the ability or responsibility to provide it.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

i guess i'm asking who you think has the responsibility to speak for marquette on the issue? prez? does it require a majority vote of the board? even greater coalition of professors? point being that often times we want a soundbite to attribute to the alma mater for one reason or another, but its much tougher to pinpoint the people with the ability or responsibility to provide it.

Pilarz reps Marquette (as long as his views match mine).   

[GGGG]

i guess i'm asking who you think has the responsibility to speak for marquette on the issue? prez? does it require a majority vote of the board? even greater coalition of professors? point being that often times we want a soundbite to attribute to the alma mater for one reason or another, but its much tougher to pinpoint the people with the ability or responsibility to provide it.

By and large, Marquette as an institution is going to remain neutral on all sorts of issues unless they deal with education-related issues or something that runs counter to Catholic theology.  There is no reason for them to speak out on this specific issue because there is no need for them to make enemies.

[bricklayer]

Let's get real though, that's exactly what they're doing (and I never said all of them, nor was it some sort of official MU statement), regardless of what they call it, or how they try to package it. Do they have a right to do it? You bet, and I support that right. However, it simply follows the trend of making Marquette less and less appealing to me. That's my point.

Over 75% of the Profs who signed it were outside the of Dept. of Theology, so you'll forgive me if i don't buy the argument that this is simply about the Catholic element, and not a public political argument/tactic. If this came from a group of Bishops, Cardinal Dolan, etc., that would be a different story, but let's call this what it is, a bunch of academics espousing their political point of view under the guise of Church tenant. They are free to do so, but it's simply not what I want to see coming out of MU.

When you say "If this came from a group of Bishops... that would be a different story", did you mean something like this?

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/222003-catholic-bishops-criticize-ryan-budget-cuts-to-food-stamps

http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/federal-budget/upload/Letter-to-Congress-Federal-Budget-2012-03-06.pdf