MUBB, athletics and academics, etc.

[muguru]

Does everyone remember when Pilarsz came in, he had that "outside" firm do a "peer" review?? That's where this all started. If you remember(and I'm not sure i do completely), but weren't the outside people there from Notre Dame, Penn and some place else?? They were all prestigious academic schools I know that. Didn't Pilarsz then hire the AD with Notre Dame ties?? I'm just sayin'.

[Benny B]

How long do you suppose it will be before Jesse and Al show up to call racism on MU's new academic policy.

But even that wouldn't be Hiroshima; heck, it wouldn't even be a Nagasaki.

Hiroshima would be finding out Larry Williams is a Bruins fan with a Twitter account. Everything else is a Kokura, at worst.

[Goose]

Guru
More importantly it comes down to what Fr. P thinks of Buzz. I do not believe, from I hear, this is a LW issue but starts higher up. Buzz is not for everyone and Fr.P probably wants a different face of the program. Wish him luck on keeping program at this level if he makes major changes.

[madtownwarrior]

"Fr.P probably wants a different face of the program"

know something or speculating?

[Goose]

Madtown
Speculating from things I have heard. I think by now it is common knowledge that things are not the same with the MU and Buzz relationship. How deep the problem is only can be answered by parties involved and doubt if that ever comes out. Guru probably is correct that real reasons why things happen probably will never be known. I said awhile back that I think school wants different identity and time will tell. I personally like us being known for ball program and think it represents school very well for most part.

[Blackhat]

Basically the end effective outcome will be more white players and less JUCOs, imo.  That will be the identity Pilarz wants, less dreads more crew cuts.  And as the "poor, tated" kids leave so will the off the court problems.

[jsglow]

Basically the end effective outcome will be more white players and less JUCOs, imo.  That will be the identity Pilarz wants, less dreads more crew cuts.  And as the "poor, tated" kids leave so will the off the court problems.

Stone, your comment is possibly the most irresponsible thing I have ever read on this board.  You essentially called Fr. Pilarz a racist.  You are WAY out of line, sir.

[TedBaxter]

Does everyone remember when Pilarsz came in, he had that "outside" firm do a "peer" review?? That's where this all started. If you remember(and I'm not sure i do completely), but weren't the outside people there from Notre Dame, Penn and some place else?? They were all prestigious academic schools I know that. Didn't Pilarsz then hire the AD with Notre Dame ties?? I'm just sayin'.

He also hired the woman from Penn/Notre Dame.

http://www.marquette.edu/president/letters-appointment-distanislao.php

Go back and look what happened when MU tried to become Notre Dame in the 1950's.  Moon Mullins was the AD with Notre Dame ties and hired ND assistant Johnny Druze.  It resulted in a 2-26-1 three year record and a year after Druze left, Marquette dropped the sport.

[Blackhat]

Stone, your comment is possibly the most irresponsible thing I have ever read on this board.  You essentially called Fr. Pilarz a racist.  You are WAY out of line, sir.

That's the resultant effect as I see it.   Pilarz wants his increased standards that's what will happen.  Reality of the basketball world and socio-economic statuses.  

[muguru]

Guru
More importantly it comes down to what Fr. P thinks of Buzz. I do not believe, from I hear, this is a LW issue but starts higher up. Buzz is not for everyone and Fr.P probably wants a different face of the program. Wish him luck on keeping program at this level if he makes major changes.

It will be impossible to maintain it at the same level. For whatever reason Fr. P cannot and doesn't comprehend the fact that right or wrong, the BB program is THE face of the University. It drives everything. That goes down, so does the image of the University. It's just a fact.

[Goose]

Ego's always get in the way of things. New guys means new ideas and often change. Funny thing is I have enjoyed the direction Buzz has taken program more than any coach since Al. He is recruiting the exact kind of kids I have wanted us to recruit for 35 years. My guess is Fr.P wants to sleep at night and not worry if a problem is going to happen, basically reduced risk and unfortunately reduced reward for alums that want winning program.

[Goose]

Guru
There are people out there that do not think the BB program is the face of the school and that is flat out crazy. Very few outside of regional folks know much about MU and most everything they know is because of what Al started and others tried to maintain. We are a basketball school first and a good regional university second. I love MU and honest say what we are, at least IMO which is based off talking people about MU.

[Blackhat]

He also hired the woman from Penn/Notre Dame.

http://www.marquette.edu/president/letters-appointment-distanislao.php

Go back and look what happened when MU tried to become Notre Dame in the 1950's.  Moon Mullins was the AD with Notre Dame ties and hired ND assistant Johnny Druze.  It resulted in a 2-26-1 three year record and a year after Druze left, Marquette dropped the sport.

astute observations from guru and yourself.   Never thought of it in that context.   This process was started a long time ago.   Cottingham first casualty, then the players, then Buzz.   Pilarz will be satisfied then when the Bill Carmody's of the world are all who will come here.

[The Process]

My guess is Fr.P wants to sleep at night and not worry if a problem is going to happen, basically reduced risk and unfortunately reduced reward for alums that want winning program.

And then reduced alumni donations.  Money talks.  If there are big-time donors that don't like the apparently new direction, hopefully they are speaking with their checkbooks and pulling donations until things are rectified.

"Messing with happy" goes far beyond Buzz.

[lab_warrior]

I am stuck in a foreign country with many dollars. I can only get out if you send $1000 to me.  I will share my fortune with you for your trouble.

I'm fairly certain this will work as people here seem to believe everything they hear, no matter how insane.

Yes, appears the "Pilarz and Williams are hell-bent to destroy MU basketball and turn it into SLU" paranoia/freak-out is back.  Based on ZERO evidence, just some folks inhaling the constantly wafting, bulls*** scented ether from this board in DEEPLY.  Foil hats and free John Birch Society membership for everyone!

[martyconlonontherun]

It's my understanding that this particular player has NO chance to meet the new standards. Others might get there.

Do you mean no realistic chance or truly no chance? If a sophomore has 36 credits with even a d going into this semester that's 36 points. He could've taken 6 blow off classes and busted his ass for As. That would make a total of 108 gpa points for a 2.0 gpa. So either the player wasn't willing to do everything possible to reach the academic goals or he had less than. 1.0 gpa and which point he should not be on the team.

And to your analogy earlier, if a new boss saw I was doing the absolute bare min at my job, I'm pretty sure I would be fired immediately. It would suck but that doesnt mean I shouldn't have been fired.

[The Process]

Yes, appears the "Pilarz and Williams are hell-bent to destroy MU basketball and turn it into SLU" paranoia/freak-out is back.  Based on ZERO evidence, just some folks inhaling the constantly wafting, bulls*** scented ether from this board in DEEPLY.  Foil hats and free John Birch Society membership for everyone!

If there is legitimate cause to be concerned, then I hope that money talks and donors pull out until things change. If this does turn into a big pile of nothing, then that'd be good for all.

One thing that I will take away from this discussion is that we all want a successful, happy program.  If there is no cause for concern at the end of this, we all will hopefully take a deep breath and be happy.  I know I will.

[mu03eng]

Yes, appears the "Pilarz and Williams are hell-bent to destroy MU basketball and turn it into SLU" paranoia/freak-out is back.  Based on ZERO evidence, just some folks inhaling the constantly wafting, bulls*** scented ether from this board in DEEPLY.  Foil hats and free John Birch Society membership for everyone!

So multiple posters who have track records of inside knowledge are saying the same thing and that's ZERO evidence?

I think this story connects enough dots that I fear its true.

However if true it is Hiroshima because it means the following things:
-We will be turning our backs on Cura Personalis because we are potentially hanging players out to dry
-We will be harming our own APR which will get more PR than raised GPA standards
-We are sacrificing athletic success potentially for some unquantified benefit of being an "academic" university
-The people driving the situation have no realization that basketball has driven the growth that has allowed things like the new buildings on campus, etc.
-We have added new non-revenue sports which they are expecting basketball to fund, but if this is true basketball will lose revenue b/c I think Buzz will be gone and it will be tough to get someone close to the same caliber given the situation as it appears

[Goose]

LabWarrior
How are you certain you are correct? Please share your evidence that everything is fine. I am sure everyone would like to hear your positive news.

[GGGG]

You guys have taken this and drawn up all sorts of nightmare scenarios.  Knowing this policy exists, or soon would exist, Buzz still went out and got a verbal from the likes of Duane Wilson, who is looking more and more like a BE caliber player.  This isn't the end of the world.

[MUBurrow]

Lab -
Do you mean that you think this is meaningless panic because you don't think the new academic regulations will come to fruition, or because you think everyone is overreacting to what the fallout from those standards will be?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Yes, appears the "Pilarz and Williams are hell-bent to destroy MU basketball and turn it into SLU" paranoia/freak-out is back.  Based on ZERO evidence, just some folks inhaling the constantly wafting, bulls*** scented ether from this board in DEEPLY.  Foil hats and free John Birch Society membership for everyone!

You forgot to add that there are Penn and Notre Dame graduates involved, and therefore MU hoops is screwed.

[martyconlonontherun]

That's the resultant effect as I see it.   Pilarz wants his increased standards that's what will happen.  Reality of the basketball world and socio-economic statuses.  

So highering standards means less jucos and less black athletes? I'm sorry THAT seems racist. Unless there is some ultra high standards being issued I don't think most athletes will notice in the future. Mu will just push them harder in the future.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So multiple posters who have track records of inside knowledge are saying the same thing and that's ZERO evidence?

I think this story connects enough dots that I fear its true.

However if true it is Hiroshima because it means the following things:
-We will be turning our backs on Cura Personalis because we are potentially hanging players out to dry
-We will be harming our own APR which will get more PR than raised GPA standards
-We are sacrificing athletic success potentially for some unquantified benefit of being an "academic" university
-The people driving the situation have no realization that basketball has driven the growth that has allowed things like the new buildings on campus, etc.
-We have added new non-revenue sports which they are expecting basketball to fund, but if this is true basketball will lose revenue b/c I think Buzz will be gone and it will be tough to get someone close to the same caliber given the situation as it appears

The "evidence" that we have right now might be correct, but it doesn't lead to the conclusions some have made.

MU MIGHT be raising the academic standard, therefore, we can conclude that Pilarz wants more white players? WTF is that?

[Goose]

I think the whole white player thing is crazy talk. But, think higher standards limits the talent pool way too much for MU. Not a good enough school to play at a disadvantage to competition.