2012-13 Schedule

[Silkk the Shaka]

Since I haven't heard anything, I'm assuming we're not taking an international trip despite the option to do so?  With that November, why?  10 extra practices and some extra games in August could give us a huge edge.

Maybe since coaches can now work with players in the off season (I think?) they view a trip like that as superfluous spending?  Or maybe the international budget went to hire Chew?

[LAZER]

He ain't kidding...here's what we know:

11/9 - Ohio State
11/19 - Maui Invitational (Likely Illinois, Mississippi State, USC, or Chaminade)
11/20 - Maui Invitational (Likely Texas or Butler)
11/21 - Maui Invitational (Hopefully UNC)
11/29 - Florida

While I would imagine we split these games in a number of possible ways, this could either send MU sky-rocketing in the early season polls or have MU digging out of a huge hole come BE play.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Glad the MU-UWM game wil not happen this year. I'm sick of hearing the cry babies on both sides.

[🏀]

Glad the MU-UWM game wil not happen this year. I'm sick of hearing the cry babies on both sides.

Both sides?

What does MU have to cry about again?

Bad series that I hope never happens under those terms ever again.

[PGsHeroes32]

UNC will probably have it so they dont play Chaminade. I really hope we dont get stuck with them in our first game.

[MUfan12]

Bad series that I hope never happens under those terms ever again.

Amen. Should be a 4-1 or a buy game. 2-1 is a joke.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Both sides?

What does MU have to cry about again?

Bad series that I hope never happens under those terms ever again.

You are proving my point. A "bad series". It was 4-1 deal.

[brewcity77]

Marquette/Milwaukee really just doesn't make much sense for either side, even though it seems to make sense for both sides. Here's why:

For Marquette: The only positive is extending the nation's longest undefeated streak over a single opponent, currently at 39 and counting. Of course, every time you extend it, the city looks at you like a bully picking on poor little Milwaukee. Marquette becomes the pantomime villain. And for what? A win over a team that has had an average RPI over that period of 133.4? We've had 1 top-100 victory (#93 in 2010) against the Panthers. And going across the street gains us nothing. They couldn't even fill the gym when they finally got the game they wanted. From a recruiting perspective, we gain nothing. There is not a single recruit in the country that will see us in this game that wouldn't see us in any other game we played. And now Milwaukee wants a 2-for-1? So every 3 years we can go play in a smaller gym that doesn't draw and risk the ridicule that would come with a loss (as every bully is ridiculed when they finally fall). There is no win here. If we win, we're the bad guy. If we lose, it's laugh at the bad guy.

For Milwaukee: No one likes losing every year, and that's all they are doing in this series. So besides the loss, what is the positive? Umm...there really is none. It doesn't improve their recruiting ability, and may hinder it in the city because the constant losing only reinforces to local kids that they'd rather be playing at Marquette. People talk about Marquette needing to recruit more locally, but the Panthers don't have a single Milwaukee Metro player on their roster right now. 2 guys from Racine are the most "local". Maybe they won't get the Tokoto or Nolan types, but they might have a better shot at guys like Cinmeon Bowers and Arroyo Edwards if they weren't watching Milwaukee get pounded by Marquette every year. In the next few years the city has strong recruits beyond Burton, Wilson, Looney, and Stone, and Milwaukee might be better served not playing Marquette and reminding those second tier recruits that the Panthers are the city's second-tier program. Further, as a perennial top-150 program, it's not inconceivable that programs like Iowa State, Minnesota, Iowa, DePaul, and maybe even a Purdue or Xavier would agree to a 3-for-1 or 4-for-1. And their local fans actually will show up when you play them at home, because they don't get to see their team as often (unlike Marquette STH's). Further, you expand your recruiting base by allowing kids in neighboring states to see you on a more regular basis. That, along with 1-for-1 deals with other quality mid-majors in the MVC, A-10, or C-USA would be far more valuable to the program than getting bent over by Marquette both at the negotiating table and on the court. Further, continuing a series at 3-for-1 or less doesn't just push you below Marquette (39 and counting...you're already there) but it pushes you below Green Bay who got the 2-for-1 deal. That could hurt recruiting as well as it puts you clearly last of the four D1 teams in the state. Of course, there are completely different reasons for Marquette to play GB 2/1 as opposed to UWM 2/1, but the average fan may not understand that.

It's a lose-lose situation for Marquette, and it's a losing proposition for Milwaukee. I'm of the honest opinion that signing a 6-for-1 deal would be allowing the Panthers too many home games, and that would undoubtedly be a slap in the face for Panther fans. Marquette won't be happy ever going back to the MECCA, Milwaukee fans won't be happy until it's a 1-for-1. Neither will happen, so just end the series.

[Mr. Nielsen]

You make good points on both sides, brew city.
To be kind've fair to Milwaukee, when they hosted MU, it wasn't the best weekend being on a holiday. Even, UW football didn't sell-out that day and they were playing for the BigTen Title.

I'm fine with MU & Milwaukee not playing. It's less stress on myself.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Brewcity 77-
You are a schedule follower, like myself. MU said on May 14, that the nc-schedule would be out by the end of May. Why do you think that didn't happen yet?

[brewcity77]

Brewcity 77-
You are a schedule follower, like myself. MU said on May 14, that the nc-schedule would be out by the end of May. Why do you think that didn't happen yet?

I don't recall that, usually they release games on a day-by-day basis in July. Last year, most of the games we knew about had been leaked. Both Mount St. Mary's and Northern Colorado were leaked on Twitter, the Paradise Jam had already announced their pairings. The last game leaked was Jacksonville, though we didn't know that until mid-June.

Really, Twitter has let us down. Last year, we knew about MSM and UNCO and also were known to be negotiating with Florida Atlantic thanks to Twitter (they ended up playing WVU instead). MB and company are playing it closer to the vest this year, and apparently getting their NC buy game opponents to do the same. Still, I have to imagine some of our opponents will come out soon.

[mu_hilltopper]

Brew .. could you include in your analysis .. the ramifications of playing an RPI team of 133 (for example) versus swapping that game with one of MU's typical cupcakes, RPI 280-320 or so.

And analyze the year we (escaped with) a win at the Cell, which was a road-win, counting as 1.4 wins instead of the usual .6 for home-wins.

[dgies9156]

Just saw this tweet from Mike Broeker:

He ain't kidding...here's what we know:

11/9 - Ohio State
11/19 - Maui Invitational (Likely Illinois, Mississippi State, USC, or Chaminade)

You think if we played Illinois after what's happened in the past few days that it might be interesting?

Would be a lot of fun!

[🏀]

You are proving my point. A "bad series". It was 4-1 deal.

Fair enough then.

[brewcity77]

Brew .. could you include in your analysis .. the ramifications of playing an RPI team of 133 (for example) versus swapping that game with one of MU's typical cupcakes, RPI 280-320 or so.

And analyze the year we (escaped with) a win at the Cell, which was a road-win, counting as 1.4 wins instead of the usual .6 for home-wins.

I'm going to sit down and take some time working something up for CS. It'll probably be a few days at least, I want to have it a pretty thorough look at what difference it makes.

[Dawson Rental]

Don't we have a 3-1 with UWGB?  I can't imagine we'd desire a more lopsided deal for UWM.  They're the same level in my opinion.

And a shorter road trip for MU fans.   

[brewcity77]

Brew .. could you include in your analysis .. the ramifications of playing an RPI team of 133 (for example) versus swapping that game with one of MU's typical cupcakes, RPI 280-320 or so.

And analyze the year we (escaped with) a win at the Cell, which was a road-win, counting as 1.4 wins instead of the usual .6 for home-wins.

I did a CS article that addressed the first part. I took four home games from 2010-11 and four from 2011-12 and played the "what if" game in regard to switching them around. If you take our four ugliest buy games from 2010-11 and have them replace our four worst home buy games (also included Norfolk State as we only had 3 true buy games) it would have dropped our RPI from 9 to 11. While it's not a huge difference, among the top teams, every little difference could be the difference between a 2 and a 3, or a 3 and a 4.

It was more noticeable when I replaced the four 2010-11 games with the 2011-12 games. Our RPI of 64 in 2010-11 would have jumped up to 54, which probably would have had us safely off the bubble.

Basically, each attempt at a "tougher" opponent makes a difference of 0.5 - 2.5 RPI slots, depending on where you finish. The higher a team finishes, the harder it is for one game to move the score, but when you're on the bubble, 1 or 2 games on the schedule could easily determine if a team is in or out.

[Dawson Rental]

Glad the MU-UWM game wil not happen this year. I'm sick of hearing the cry babies on both sides.

Did you boycott D1 NCAA games last year?

[Dawson Rental]

Marquette/Milwaukee really just doesn't make much sense for either side, even though it seems to make sense for both sides. Here's why:

For Marquette: The only positive is extending the nation's longest undefeated streak over a single opponent, currently at 39 and counting. Of course, every time you extend it, the city looks at you like a bully picking on poor little Milwaukee. Marquette becomes the pantomime villain. And for what? A win over a team that has had an average RPI over that period of 133.4? We've had 1 top-100 victory (#93 in 2010) against the Panthers. And going across the street gains us nothing. They couldn't even fill the gym when they finally got the game they wanted. From a recruiting perspective, we gain nothing. There is not a single recruit in the country that will see us in this game that wouldn't see us in any other game we played. And now Milwaukee wants a 2-for-1? So every 3 years we can go play in a smaller gym that doesn't draw and risk the ridicule that would come with a loss (as every bully is ridiculed when they finally fall). There is no win here. If we win, we're the bad guy. If we lose, it's laugh at the bad guy.

I thought that Syracuse had a longer streak going against Cornell or someone, and this streak was number two.

[brewcity77]

I thought that Syracuse had a longer streak going against Cornell or someone, and this streak was number two.

Syracuse has a longer winning streak, but Cornell has beaten Syracuse in the past. Milwaukee has never beaten Marquette.

[chapman]

Colgate actually, not Cornell.  The all-time series is Syracuse 119-45.  They've lost to Colgate more times than we've played UWM.

[brewcity77]

Colgate actually, not Cornell.  The all-time series is Syracuse 119-45.  They've lost to Colgate more times than we've played UWM.

Correct...just read up on it today, and still didn't catch it

It was actually a very competitive series back in the day, but obviously things have changed since the 30s and 40s.

[Mr. Nielsen]

I don't recall that, usually they release games on a day-by-day basis in July. Last year, most of the games we knew about had been leaked. Both Mount St. Mary's and Northern Colorado were leaked on Twitter, the Paradise Jam had already announced their pairings. The last game leaked was Jacksonville, though we didn't know that until mid-June.

Really, Twitter has let us down. Last year, we knew about MSM and UNCO and also were known to be negotiating with Florida Atlantic thanks to Twitter (they ended up playing WVU instead). MB and company are playing it closer to the vest this year, and apparently getting their NC buy game opponents to do the same. Still, I have to imagine some of our opponents will come out soon.

Correct, MU has put out the nc-schedule day to day in July, but this was on twitter.
It was on MU twitter site on May 14th.

[The Equalizer]

It was more noticeable when I replaced the four 2010-11 games with the 2011-12 games. Our RPI of 64 in 2010-11 would have jumped up to 54, which probably would have had us safely off the bubble.

An RPI of 54 was still bubble territory.  We still had a .500 league record, no quality non-conference wins, and a bad loss to Seton Hall.  Teams better than 54 were bubble teams.  54 is not off the bubble.

Frankly, avoidng the bad loss to Seton Hall or beating Louisville on the road would have had a much more significant impact in moving us off the bubble.  

And without our road win at UConn and the tournament win vs. WVU in the BET that year, we could have had the #1 non-conference schedule in NCAA and still wouldn't have made the tournament.

And yet, we had that "poor" cupcake selection, a 64 RPI, and STILL made the tournament.  Which means that the committee somehow either overlooked who our cupcakes were--or they just didn't care.  I'm going with the latter.

Now, if a computer picked the teams and seeded the tournament, maybe playing around with teams at the margins makes sense.  But based on their history, the committee is going to favor teams like #67 USC or #64 Marquette over teams iike #35 Harvard or #42 Cleveland State or #43 Missouri State--and I can guarantee you that it wasn't becuase they compared cupcakes.

[brewcity77]

An RPI of 54 was still bubble territory.  We still had a .500 league record, no quality non-conference wins, and a bad loss to Seton Hall.  Teams better than 54 were bubble teams.  54 is not off the bubble.

Frankly, avoidng the bad loss to Seton Hall or beating Louisville on the road would have had a much more significant impact in moving us off the bubble.  

And without our road win at UConn and the tournament win vs. WVU in the BET that year, we could have had the #1 non-conference schedule in NCAA and still wouldn't have made the tournament.

And yet, we had that "poor" cupcake selection, a 64 RPI, and STILL made the tournament.  Which means that the committee somehow either overlooked who our cupcakes were--or they just didn't care.  I'm going with the latter.

Now, if a computer picked the teams and seeded the tournament, maybe playing around with teams at the margins makes sense.  But based on their history, the committee is going to favor teams like #67 USC or #64 Marquette over teams iike #35 Harvard or #42 Cleveland State or #43 Missouri State--and I can guarantee you that it wasn't becuase they compared cupcakes.

84, I don't think you understand the concept of "apples to apples". Changing cupcakes is an apples to apples comparison. Playing 4 teams with an average RPI of 227 instead of teams with an average RPI of 328 is an apples to apples comparison. Talking about avoiding the bad loss to SHU or beating Louisville is pie in the sky. If wishes were horses then beggers would ride, and all you can do about games you lost is wish. But changing how you schedule is something you CAN change.

Also, the RPI of a Harvard, CSU, or Missouri State is not equal to ours. The SOS is completely different because of their conference schedule. But our mighty conference schedule still put us on the bubble, and playing better cupcakes is what can separate us from the USCs and Virginia Techs of the world.

We barely got in the dance that year because of our pathetic NCSOS. If it had been stronger, we'd have been far more secure and up a couple seed lines. Granted, winning more games solves a lot, but that's a wish scenario. I live in a real world where I want Marquette to plan for what they can impact, which is playing stronger teams in the non-con. You can't control the bounces of February with anything you do in June, but you can control the strength of the opponent across the floor in November, and that can make the difference between the NCAAs and the NIT.