Mayo only one who showed up tonight...

[MerrittsMustache]

Vander Blue is a good basketball player now.  He is an incredible rebounder for his size (lead the team last night in only 26 minutes), and the best perimeter defender on the team.  He is poor offensively, but basketball is more than offense.

What?!? Since when?!

[hairy worthen]

Vander cannot be considered a good basketball player until he learns how to make layups.  My wife screams every time he has the ball and drives towards the basket.  We have never seen a player who drives fairly well but for some reason or other cannot make layups!  

disagree, yes he is missing close shots, but he is showing incredible atheletic ability to even get to the point where he takes the shots. I am confident the shots will start to fall.

[Rubie Q]

Vander Blue is a good basketball player now.  He is an incredible rebounder for his size (lead the team last night in only 26 minutes), and the best perimeter defender on the team.  He is poor offensively, but basketball is more than offense.

He is typically a very good perimeter defender, but he wasn't very good last night. Couldn't keep anyone in front of him.

[CTWarrior]

I remember people, myself included, saying the same thing about jer mcNeal his freshman and sophomore year. He was a loose cannon on his drives to the basket and an inconsistent jump shooter. Look what happened his junior and senior year. 28% from 3 his freshman year to 40% his senior year. Granted mcneal scored more than blue his first two years but he also was playing more out of necessity and had a different role on the team.

My point is give blue a break. He will improve and be a solid scorer the next couple of years. He does many other things very well.

BTW dimes I thought you were going to stay away if mu lost.

Vander Blue is not 20% of the offensive player that sophomore Jerel McNeal was!  I don't understand this comparison, which we hear often, at all.  Jerel McNeal could get to the basket and he could finish.  Every shot Blue takes other than a put back is a bad idea for MU.  With McNeal there was plenty of good offense to offset the bad.  With Blue there isn't.

[CTWarrior]

He is typically a very good perimeter defender, but he wasn't very good last night. Couldn't keep anyone in front of him.

He is a good perimeter defender, not an elite, lockdown defender.  He is a fantastic rebounder for his size, though.

[Dreadman24]

Vander Blue is a good basketball player now.  He is an incredible rebounder for his size (lead the team last night in only 26 minutes), and the best perimeter defender on the team.  He is poor offensively, but basketball is more than offense.

I get what you're saying, but unfortunately most fans don't see all the things he does to help the team( defense and rebounding). I like Vander, but at the end of the day he has to learn how to put the ball in the basket. That will start by completely changing his shooting form.

[ringout]

Vander's problem last night was going 1 against 3 to the hoop on breaks.  These were poor decisions, not inability to finish at the rim. 

Decision making improves with experience.  Vander will be a 1st round draft pick by the time he's done at Marquette.

[hairy worthen]

Vander Blue is not 20% of the offensive player that sophomore Jerel McNeal was!  I don't understand this comparison, which we hear often, at all.  Jerel McNeal could get to the basket and he could finish.  Every shot Blue takes other than a put back is a bad idea for MU.  With McNeal there was plenty of good offense to offset the bad.  With Blue there isn't.

I didn't say blue is the same or close to the same offensive player. I am saying mcneal improved significantly from his freshman year to his senior year especially finishing and shooting, and so will blue. If you think that mcneal finished everytime on a drive his freshman year, you are not remembering. He often took ill advised drives to the basket that he didnt finish and no he wasn't a great shooter his freshman year especially from 3.

[hairy worthen]

Vander's problem last night was going 1 against 3 to the hoop on breaks.  These were poor decisions, not inability to finish at the rim. 

Decision making improves with experience.  Vander will be a 1st round draft pick by the time he's done at Marquette.

this exactly. Not for lack of ability, but poor decisions, what did al say about sophmores

[Goose]

No offense my wife also screams about Vander Blue and she has zero idea of true basketball talent. When it comes down to it VB's skills are noticed my people that really understand the game. The average fan overlooks DJO's wild, head down drives to the basket over and over because he is a scorer. He makes more dumb plays in a half that many smart players make in half a season.

VB has a ton of work to do but not realize how advanced he is in some ways is looking at glass half empty. If he he can continue to improve his strengths and vastly improve his liabilities he might be one of our best of all time. We all Jamil Wilson on here and with good reason. But, he has a ton of areas to improve as well. All I can say is I will take our chances with the kids coming back all day long. In years past we had kids coming back that really could not raise the bar. VB, JW and TM are a core that most teams would love to have.

[Goose]

Hairy---I agee completely on VB being a first round draft pick. I just hope it is in two years and not one. Trust me guys the people that know think this kid is an NBA player.

[Canadian Dimes]

No doubt Blue struggled tonite.  He does need to work on his finishing.  for whatever reason he wants to short arm or flip everything at the rim.  His 8 foot pull up that went 4 feet?  His two air balled layups?  he needs to put the ball in the shooting pocket and reach for the rim and finish properly and his shooting percentage will go way up.  Personally, I think eveything else Vander does for us warrants him being on the court.

Now on the other hand a kid like Todd Mayo can really defend and rebound too.  And is clearly much more gifted offensively.  right now going into next year they probably both get a ton of playing time, but if a kid like TJ taylor or Ferguson can rebound and defend like Vander and Todd and bring good offense Vander may see his time be affected.

[mu_hilltopper]

How old is Vander?  18?  Maybe he just turned 19?

I have very little concern about his ability to finish improving as he becomes more physically mature.

I'd rather Vander attack the rim and get stuffed than watch another contested three or long two.  One of the reasons, MU shot terribly was because they took a lot of bad shots last night.

Whether he progresses in his next two years at Marquette .. is a given (???).  But that's not today's problem.

If Vander was better at drawing fouls, then I'd agree with you on driving the lane.  Unfortunately, he's not.  He gets blocked, or just clanks one off the rim.  I'd rather him distribute the ball than go with his usual low percentage attempt.

[Stretchdeltsig]

True.  Good defensive players are valuable, but players that can do both - offense and defense - are much more valuable.  Not being able to score - whether outside or inside and consistently fail to make "bunnies" as Al called them - hurts a lot and greatly decreases our chances of winning.  It's something that must be corrected. 

[Rubie Q]

Vander is what he is at this point: an incredible raw athlete -- probably a half-step above Dom James, and even Wade -- which allows him to do very nice things on the defensive end of the floor. And the things he can do defensively should earn him 25 minutes a game on their own.

But he's not a very skilled basketball player, primarily because he could get by for so long on that incredible raw athletic ability. Maybe that will develop with time. Personally, I think if it WAS going to develop, we would have seen signs of it this year. By and large, we didn't.

[Goose]

Topper--Your points are right and agree completely. Once he learns how to draw a foul it will be different story. Of course he is a work in progress and we all know that. Good news he has a lot to work with.

[mu_hilltopper]

Vander is what he is at this point: an incredible raw athlete -- probably a half-step above Dom James, and even Wade

[MerrittsMustache]

Vander needs to watch some film of Houston's Phi Slamma Jam teams. Now THAT is how you attack the basket.

[Rubie Q]

You disagree? There's a reason he set all those records during individual workouts.

[CTWarrior]

True.  Good defensive players are valuable, but players that can do both - offense and defense - are much more valuable.  Not being able to score - whether outside or inside and consistently fail to make "bunnies" as Al called them - hurts a lot and greatly decreases our chances of winning.  It's something that must be corrected.  

Agree wholeheartedly.  If we start Cadougan, Otule and Blue next year, that is basically 3 guys you don't have to guard.  When the other two guys aren't DJO and Crowder, that is going to be a problem.  I'm being a little unfair to Cadougan, who is a very fine passer in the half court, just not much of a scorer.

[Skatastrophy]

Vander can get so high he could definitely change his game by focusing on finishing hard with contact instead of trying to lay it in with finesse.

The one thing he could use from DJO's or Mayo's game is the ability to switch gears.  Going full speed into a triple team is much less effective than downshifting and making the defense make the first move.

[MerrittsMustache]

But he's not a very skilled basketball player, primarily because he could get by for so long on that incredible raw athletic ability. Maybe that will develop with time. Personally, I think if it WAS going to develop, we would have seen signs of it this year. By and large, we didn't.

In Blue's last 10 games prior to the Tournament, he scored in double-figured 7 times, averaged 10.8 ppg, shot 44% from the floor and 79% on FTs. That's definitely development since last season.

Is there any MU fan who wouldn't take those scoring/shooting numbers from Blue next season?

[Canadian Dimes]

Really sort of stunned so much talk is being given to Vander right now.  When our PG position was again ...non-existant?   Our starter disappears menatlly or physically for entire games and our backup is at this point not even backing him up??

Was the weakness on the team this year ...and is the key to next year.  cannot imagine where this team might have gone this year with a Diener, hutchins, Miller, James, Henry, etc. at the point.

[drewm88]

If Vander was better at drawing fouls, then I'd agree with you on driving the lane.  Unfortunately, he's not.

Agreed on his finishing around the hoop, but to be fair, none of our guys were getting the whistles down low that we normally do. Not DJO, not Crowder, and definitely not Ox.

[Rubie Q]

In Blue's last 10 games prior to the Tournament, he scored in double-figured 7 times, averaged 10.8 ppg, shot 44% from the floor and 79% on FTs. That's definitely development since last season.

We can pick all the arbitrary end points we want: in his last 10 games, including the tournament (read: against better competition), he hit double-figures four times, averaged 8.0 points, per game, and shot 34.3% from the floor.